Regarding The Mission and Operation of this Forum

[UntoHim]

My brothers and sisters.
Sorry for my late reply here. Actually I was going to post something very similar to what Nell has posted.

I think that some of you have lost sight of what this forum is all about. Maybe some of you have never really known (or cared about) what this forum is all about. I think about, and hope for, and pray about this every day for the past 15+ years. I don't think about this as being a cross, but if it is, I gladly bear it no matter how much anyone calls me a coward, a hypocrite, unfair, or unreasonable.

Maybe some of you may have had LSM operatives dig through your trash, harass your innocent relatives at semi-annual training meetings and speak evil things about you among Blended brothers and their associates. Maybe some of you have been in the gunsights of the DCP (Defense & Confirmation Project) and the hundreds of thousands of dollars at their disposal to make you and your family uncomfortable. I hope and pray that you have not.

I would encourage all of you to read the entire forum Mission Statement again (that is if you've actually ever read it to begin with). And if you would forget all else in this statement, I would hope that you could remember this one part:
As such, we believe we have experiences beneficial to others who have left the Local Church and have been damaged while faithful to that group. Our desire is to share with others who were hurt and broken by their experiences, and hopefully help others find their way back to the Lord Jesus Christ and to the True Gospel.

To Nell and I, there are only two groups of people that this forum exists for: Those of us who have have a desire to share with others who have found our way back to the Lord Jesus Christ, and have found the True Gospel; And those who who have been damaged in the Local Church of Witness Lee, and whom the Lord has brought to us in this forum to "shine the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ". If there are others that have a different understanding, and a different agenda, they are more than welcome to observe and even participate to a limited degree, but they will not be allowed to sidetrack, much less greatly hinder the operation of the general mission of this forum.

The Lord bless you
and keep you;
the Lord make his face shine on you
and be gracious to you;
the Lord turn his face toward you
and give you peace.
Numbers 6:24-26
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[Trapped]

UntoHim, you made a suggestion to read the forum mission statement, and I have indeed read it several times - when they were refreshed a couple years ago, then again after that when there were other issues, and then again just a couple days ago.

I think where I'm kind of stuck is not with the official mission statement, but with what was recently posted as a clarification to it. I was surprised to read this statement:

"We don’t leave it to our “poster children” to determine what is condescending and what isn’t; what is “bashing” and what isn’t."

I don't know who the poster children are, but I do know that I am not one of them. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but this sentence seems to be saying "We won't take the input of anyone, even those who have been valuable contributing members. We and only we [the moderators] determine what is condescending or bashing, and we will not take any feedback from anyone who disagrees".

That is how this sentence comes across. Is this the message that was intended? If so, can you understand why some people would trip over it, given how much this sounds like Witness Lee and the co-workers of the LC? And also given that there could be many who are particularly sensitive to having something co-worker/Lee-esque instituted?

If it's not what was intended, can there be clarification, because I could use some clarification!

Thanks,

Trapped

[TheStarswillFall]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

My brothers and sisters. Sorry for my late reply here. Actually I was going to post something very similar to what Nell has posted.
I think that some of you have lost sight of what this forum is all about......-

UntoHim's post is very clear and resonates strongly with me.

Below is a PM I recently sent to an "offender":

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MemberX, are you for real or are you part of DCP?

I don't post on this forum often, but I do put a premium on the service rendered by this online community for mostly ex LC members (like myself). I used to enjoy reading most of the threads on here.

Since you've started posting on this forum you have managed to greatly dilute the value of this forum.

Your posts are mostly trivial and of little to zero value to those who genuinely seek help outside of the LC.

I beg you, stop spamming this forum.

If you believe the LC is God's move on the earth then why on God's green earth are you spending hours and hours babbling away on this forum? Seems very hypocritical to me.

Again, I beg you to stop spamming this forum with irrelevant posts.

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My sentiment (and frustration) seems to be 100% aligned with this forum's intended purpose.

Not to throw verses around, but Paul said: "Foolish questionings arising from an untrained mind - REFUSE!"

Why would we go out of our way to facilitate and entertain what Paul said should be refused? Surely there must be a level of moderation when it comes to countless posts (by the same member) displaying an untrained mind.

If someone genuinely seeks help his posts will affirm his sincerity and vice versa.

[Ohio]

I had planned to stay out of this particular discussion, but …

I believe Jay posts in good faith, and more importantly, he has a mindset that matched my own for some 30 years, so his voice should be welcomed.

However, I have also been around here a long time, and it is a privilege, not a right, to post here. This forum has a Mission Statement with clearly defined rules enforced by UntoHim and Nell. These rules grew out of years of violations, so they are not negotiable. Amen?

Discussions here, and even spirited debates, must only be based on Scripture and reasoned ideas. This is challenging, I agree. But the line cannot be crossed and become personal. There are Christian standards here that will be upheld. Ad hominems are always the easy way out, but must not be resorted to. Like the Lord instructs us, apologies then can quickly restore communication.

[Nell]

Trapped,

Understood. You addressed your concerns to UntoHim. Since we co-moderate, I'm taking the liberty of responding.

Fear not. We're still all about the Mission Statement. Nothing has changed. Glad you've read it multiple times. Asking questions is still allowed. A poster child is simply "one who posts." I've used this expression multiple times. We're not digressing to Witness Lee, et al, tactics.

Everyone has sensitivities of one kind or another.

I hope this helps to clarify your concerns.

Nell

[Trapped]

TheStarsWillFall,

I see you joined the forum recently, but I am not sure if you were reading/lurking for much prior to it?

In recent years the forum has mostly been former LC members discussing, with just a sprinkle of drive-by current LC members who just post one or two posts as "unregistered" and then never appear again. Prior to that there were two current LC members, Drake and Evangelical, who posted frequently for several years, and their posts were similar to Jay's. Actually, Jay's are "better" in the sense that he will actually acknowledge specific details of serious problems, etc, which Drake/EvanG rarely would. Unfortunately, the very nature of the LC itself means that anyone from it who posts here will be posting these kinds of posts....there's just no way around it. It's literally the nature of the beast, so to speak.

For those who have left, reading these kind of posts are frustrating, but they are indeed part of the mission of the forum, as UntoHim and Nell have stated, and has been the case for quite some time. The reason they are helpful is because they often contain many of the very thoughts and reasons and teachings that keep people trapped in the LC, and this forum is one of the only places where they can be publicly countered. The interaction of "both sides" is invaluable, as much as it is frustrating and feels like spam. Of course the mods can determine how much is too much.

But I've been helped myself a TON just in the past week or so from what ACuriousFellow in particular has written in response to Jay's posts. We wouldn't get the extremely helpful input if there weren't the typical LC posts coming in to respond to!

Trapped

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I had planned to stay out of this particular discussion, but …

I believe Jay posts in good faith, and more importantly, he has a mindset that matched my own for some 30 years, so his voice should be welcomed.

However, I have also been around here a long time, and it is a privilege, not a right, to post here. This forum has a Mission Statement with clearly defined rules enforced by UntoHim and Nell. These rules grew out of years of violations, so they are not negotiable. Amen?

Discussions here, and even spirited debates, must only be based on Scripture and reasoned ideas. This is challenging, I agree. But the line cannot be crossed and become personal. There are Christian standards here that will be upheld. Ad hominems are always the easy way out, but must not be resorted to. Like the Lord instructs us, apologies then can quickly restore communication.

I agree Jay has a mindset that we can all recognize from the LC and should be welcomed.

I don't think anyone necessarily thinks it's a right to be able to post here. I've always known this whole thing is at the discretion of UntoHim and whoever is co-mod at the time. I remember when there used to be a small donation box on the left and Nell was a frequent donator. That donation box was always a reminder to me that this forum comes with a cost and there are people behind the scenes making all this work.

It's funny, I looked up "what does a forum moderator do" last night and the phrases I saw on various articles were things like "unsung heroes" and "thankless job". Seems about right.

I agree the rules should be followed, but "not negotiable" makes it sound like there is no room for "hey what about this?" kind of good faith questions in response to the rules. I think Nell's response indicates this is still possible, which I think helps clear up a source of misunderstanding that had occurred.

I kind of disagree that discussions must only be based on Scripture and reasoned ideas, no ad hominems, etc.... The reason I say this is because that would preclude lots of LC members who are quite literally not used to even thinking that way! If this was the case, then half of Drake/EvanG's posts which were not based even remotely on reasoned ideas would have been deleted and shut down long ago and they would have been modded out of here. But that would have subsequently also eliminated all the helpful stuff that came out of those kind of posts of theirs. Ad hominems need to be allowed, at least a little, so that people who don't know what an ad hominem is (i.e. ME when i was in the LC!!) have a chance to learn without being ejected. We all seemed to be able to take all that in stride pretty easily in the past, so I don't know why we can't now. I think this is part of where I'm fumbling around on this.

Trapped

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

I kind of disagree that discussions must only be based on Scripture and reasoned ideas, no ad hominems, etc.... The reason I say this is because that would preclude lots of LC members who are quite literally not used to even thinking that way! If this was the case, then half of Drake/EvanG's posts which were not based even remotely on reasoned ideas would have been deleted and shut down long ago and they would have been modded out of here. But that would have subsequently also eliminated all the helpful stuff that came out of those kind of posts of theirs. Ad hominems need to be allowed, at least a little, so that people who don't know what an ad hominem is (i.e. ME when i was in the LC!!) have a chance to learn without being ejected. We all seemed to be able to take all that in stride pretty easily in the past, so I don't know why we can't now. I think this is part of where I'm fumbling around on this. Trapped

When I mentioned “reasoned” above, I actually pictured that famous scene with Martin Luther at the Diet of Worms, when he spoke to Papal Inquisitors risking it all …

Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves), I am bound by the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and will not recant anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience. May God help me. Here I stand. I can do no other. Amen.

OK, I admit that I tend to extremes at times, but what a scene that was!

What I meant by “reason” was being genuinely thoughtful as opposed to being reactionary and lashing out. This forum, and the previous Bereans, has gone thru many combative times. At one point a poster suggested a simple “pause and pray” before pressing the submit button. Not a bad idea for us.

I’m not privy to the posts that were recently deleted by moderation, but I myself have had many posts deleted, or “archived.” And I’m talking about literally thousands! Every time it happened I was upset, if for no other reason than my time writing was “wasted.” Oh well … not the first or last time in life I’ve been insulted. Not to get too spiritual here, but Jesus was also insulted on numerous occasions, and this experience can actually be quite beneficial for us.

But to your point, Trapped we do want all LC members to be free to express themselves. Sometimes it ain’t pretty. Often it’s not what, but how they do this. Discussions can be very frustrating, I agree. LC life evokes many raw feelings, some of which were completely suppressed until visiting this forum, and then let loose. Each of us brings our own vernacular here, often with varying standards of communication “decency.”