Regarding The Mission and Operation of this Forum

[Ohio]

I had planned to stay out of this particular discussion, but …

I believe Jay posts in good faith, and more importantly, he has a mindset that matched my own for some 30 years, so his voice should be welcomed.

However, I have also been around here a long time, and it is a privilege, not a right, to post here. This forum has a Mission Statement with clearly defined rules enforced by UntoHim and Nell. These rules grew out of years of violations, so they are not negotiable. Amen?

Discussions here, and even spirited debates, must only be based on Scripture and reasoned ideas. This is challenging, I agree. But the line cannot be crossed and become personal. There are Christian standards here that will be upheld. Ad hominems are always the easy way out, but must not be resorted to. Like the Lord instructs us, apologies then can quickly restore communication.

[Nell]

Trapped,

Understood. You addressed your concerns to UntoHim. Since we co-moderate, I'm taking the liberty of responding.

Fear not. We're still all about the Mission Statement. Nothing has changed. Glad you've read it multiple times. Asking questions is still allowed. A poster child is simply "one who posts." I've used this expression multiple times. We're not digressing to Witness Lee, et al, tactics.

Everyone has sensitivities of one kind or another.

I hope this helps to clarify your concerns.

Nell

[Trapped]

TheStarsWillFall,

I see you joined the forum recently, but I am not sure if you were reading/lurking for much prior to it?

In recent years the forum has mostly been former LC members discussing, with just a sprinkle of drive-by current LC members who just post one or two posts as "unregistered" and then never appear again. Prior to that there were two current LC members, Drake and Evangelical, who posted frequently for several years, and their posts were similar to Jay's. Actually, Jay's are "better" in the sense that he will actually acknowledge specific details of serious problems, etc, which Drake/EvanG rarely would. Unfortunately, the very nature of the LC itself means that anyone from it who posts here will be posting these kinds of posts....there's just no way around it. It's literally the nature of the beast, so to speak.

For those who have left, reading these kind of posts are frustrating, but they are indeed part of the mission of the forum, as UntoHim and Nell have stated, and has been the case for quite some time. The reason they are helpful is because they often contain many of the very thoughts and reasons and teachings that keep people trapped in the LC, and this forum is one of the only places where they can be publicly countered. The interaction of "both sides" is invaluable, as much as it is frustrating and feels like spam. Of course the mods can determine how much is too much.

But I've been helped myself a TON just in the past week or so from what ACuriousFellow in particular has written in response to Jay's posts. We wouldn't get the extremely helpful input if there weren't the typical LC posts coming in to respond to!

Trapped

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I had planned to stay out of this particular discussion, but …

I believe Jay posts in good faith, and more importantly, he has a mindset that matched my own for some 30 years, so his voice should be welcomed.

However, I have also been around here a long time, and it is a privilege, not a right, to post here. This forum has a Mission Statement with clearly defined rules enforced by UntoHim and Nell. These rules grew out of years of violations, so they are not negotiable. Amen?

Discussions here, and even spirited debates, must only be based on Scripture and reasoned ideas. This is challenging, I agree. But the line cannot be crossed and become personal. There are Christian standards here that will be upheld. Ad hominems are always the easy way out, but must not be resorted to. Like the Lord instructs us, apologies then can quickly restore communication.

I agree Jay has a mindset that we can all recognize from the LC and should be welcomed.

I don't think anyone necessarily thinks it's a right to be able to post here. I've always known this whole thing is at the discretion of UntoHim and whoever is co-mod at the time. I remember when there used to be a small donation box on the left and Nell was a frequent donator. That donation box was always a reminder to me that this forum comes with a cost and there are people behind the scenes making all this work.

It's funny, I looked up "what does a forum moderator do" last night and the phrases I saw on various articles were things like "unsung heroes" and "thankless job". Seems about right.

I agree the rules should be followed, but "not negotiable" makes it sound like there is no room for "hey what about this?" kind of good faith questions in response to the rules. I think Nell's response indicates this is still possible, which I think helps clear up a source of misunderstanding that had occurred.

I kind of disagree that discussions must only be based on Scripture and reasoned ideas, no ad hominems, etc.... The reason I say this is because that would preclude lots of LC members who are quite literally not used to even thinking that way! If this was the case, then half of Drake/EvanG's posts which were not based even remotely on reasoned ideas would have been deleted and shut down long ago and they would have been modded out of here. But that would have subsequently also eliminated all the helpful stuff that came out of those kind of posts of theirs. Ad hominems need to be allowed, at least a little, so that people who don't know what an ad hominem is (i.e. ME when i was in the LC!!) have a chance to learn without being ejected. We all seemed to be able to take all that in stride pretty easily in the past, so I don't know why we can't now. I think this is part of where I'm fumbling around on this.

Trapped

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

I kind of disagree that discussions must only be based on Scripture and reasoned ideas, no ad hominems, etc.... The reason I say this is because that would preclude lots of LC members who are quite literally not used to even thinking that way! If this was the case, then half of Drake/EvanG's posts which were not based even remotely on reasoned ideas would have been deleted and shut down long ago and they would have been modded out of here. But that would have subsequently also eliminated all the helpful stuff that came out of those kind of posts of theirs. Ad hominems need to be allowed, at least a little, so that people who don't know what an ad hominem is (i.e. ME when i was in the LC!!) have a chance to learn without being ejected. We all seemed to be able to take all that in stride pretty easily in the past, so I don't know why we can't now. I think this is part of where I'm fumbling around on this. Trapped

When I mentioned “reasoned” above, I actually pictured that famous scene with Martin Luther at the Diet of Worms, when he spoke to Papal Inquisitors risking it all …

Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves), I am bound by the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and will not recant anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience. May God help me. Here I stand. I can do no other. Amen.

OK, I admit that I tend to extremes at times, but what a scene that was!

What I meant by “reason” was being genuinely thoughtful as opposed to being reactionary and lashing out. This forum, and the previous Bereans, has gone thru many combative times. At one point a poster suggested a simple “pause and pray” before pressing the submit button. Not a bad idea for us.

I’m not privy to the posts that were recently deleted by moderation, but I myself have had many posts deleted, or “archived.” And I’m talking about literally thousands! Every time it happened I was upset, if for no other reason than my time writing was “wasted.” Oh well … not the first or last time in life I’ve been insulted. Not to get too spiritual here, but Jesus was also insulted on numerous occasions, and this experience can actually be quite beneficial for us.

But to your point, Trapped we do want all LC members to be free to express themselves. Sometimes it ain’t pretty. Often it’s not what, but how they do this. Discussions can be very frustrating, I agree. LC life evokes many raw feelings, some of which were completely suppressed until visiting this forum, and then let loose. Each of us brings our own vernacular here, often with varying standards of communication “decency.”