My Journey to the Local Church, and beyond...

NeitherFirstnorLast · 01-16-2011, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

... I will say from experience that while under the attack I read the Bible more, and with more prayer... these incidents turn you to the word and prayer more than anything else can.

Amen!

I came before the Lord this morning in prayer, and, wanting to read and enjoy from His Word, asked Him where to turn. He lead me, curiously, to 1 Kings, Chapter 12 - and this is what I read:

"Thus says Jehovah, You shall not go up and wage war with your brothers the children of Israel. Every man return to his house; for this matter is of Me." Amen Lord. This matter of division is of YOU, and we are not to war with our brothers.

Seeing this, I went back to the beginning of 1 Kings, as I must confess I have not yet opened this book in my RcV (although I have read it before in my KJV). I wanted to read through the context in which the Lord spoke this to Rehoboam. So much did the Lord open up to me this morning, and I want to share what I saw here, because this is the very first time I have ever seen this:

At the beginning of 1st Kings, we see again David - weak with old age, and bed ridden. To warm his bones, a young virgin is brought to him; Abishag the Shunammite (whose name in Hebrew, means "My father strays" - what significance in this name...). Through plotting, David's son Adonijah begins his bid for the throne... and in doing so slights both Solomon and Nathan, God's prophet.... but through plotting, Nathan and Bath-Sheba likewise work together to accomplish the succession for Solomon. God's will in the matter of succession is not consulted, but it appears rather, sides are chosen based on each mans will to gain the most for himself...

Nathan, in dealing with the King, pays homage to him - even by placing his face upon the ground (1 Kings 1:23-24) and calls him "lord". Is this the position a man who manipulates his king ought to take? Should Nathan, as a prophet of God, actually prostrate himself like that to another man - or address another man as "lord"? I don't feel clear to answer that question, but it arises....

David is successfully manipulated by Nathan and Bath-Sheba, and he calls for his son Solomon, and gives him the kingdom of Judah and of Israel. He goes on to instruct Solomon in the things he ought to do first: And here we get to see what is really on David's heart these days.... because he strays:

David's first instructions are good: "Keep the commandment of Jehovah your God by walking in His ways...." (1 Kings 2:3)... but he doesn't ask this for God or for God's children, the people of Israel, but rather for himself: "That Jehovah may establish His word which he spoke concerning me..." (1 Kings 2:4)

David follows this commandment, which is laced with more than questionable motives, with another; a call for vengeance on an old enemy (is not vengeance the Lord's?) "...you know what Joab the son of Zeruiah did to me... do not let his grey hairedhead go down to Sheol in peace." (1 Kings 2:5-6)

Finally, David tells Solomon of the situation with Shimei the son of Gera, to whom David openly acknowledges that he swore an oath to him by Jehovah saying "I shall not kill you with a sword."... Nevertheless, David harbors resentment and unforgiveness in his heart for this one, and so he urges Solomon by his wisdom to find a way around this agreement; and to "not hold him guiltless... bring his grey-haired head down to Sheol with blood."

What a dark legacy to leave your son.

Solomon is instituted as King while David lives, and immediately we see the truth in the Word of God: "The sins of the father shall be visited upon the son, yea unto the seventh generation."

Solomon's first act as King is not to Praise God, or seek His will and counsel. No, it is to establish his own authority, and consolidate his power.

First, he tells his mother that she may ask what she will ask; "I will not refuse you." But this is a lie, for when she asks for Abishag on behalf of Adonijah, Solomon breaks his promises and flies into a temper: In wrath, he commits fratricide in order to establish to any other siblings he may have - that he will tolerate no contenders. (1 Kings 2:20-25).

Unwilling to tolerate competition isn't limited to his own brothers. Next, Solomon immediately sets his sights on the priest Abiathar - a man of whom Solomon says "you bore the Ark of the Lord Jehovah before David my father and you suffered affliction in all that my father suffered."... and yet Solomon excommunicates him, and places him under house arrest under penalty of death... a sentence he will execute three years later, although he would lay the blame for it on Abiathar's own head.

Finally, Joab hears of what's going on and realizes that he's going to be in the way too... so he flees to the Altar of God and lays hands on it's horns; seeking forgiveness and absolution. It is denied. Solomon sends Benaniah to kill Joab. Benaniah is unwilling to profane the Tent of Jehovah, and asks Joab to come out so that his sentence can be executed, but Joab refuses, saying "No; I will rather die here". Benaniah returns to Solomon, not knowing what to do; but he is only sent back. Solomon has no qualms about profaning the Tent of Jehovah: "Do as he has spoken, and strike him down..." Solomon says.

God is silent throughout all of this; and no one asks Him about any of it.

In Chapter three, we see that the first thing that Solomon does after consolidating his power is to take for himself a wife from a daughter of Pharoah in Egypt, and not from among his own people. Why does he do this, in clear violation of God's law? Again, he wishes to secure his own power, by forging an alliance with a nation that in all typology typifies the sinful world itself.

Next, Solomon goes up to the high places and sacrifices 1,000 burnt offerings to the Lord. Why does he do this? We are not told. Why does he go to the high places to do it, instead of to the Altar in the Tent of Jehovah? Solomon is not a priest, does he have the right to do this? Saul certainly didn't, and was punished for that foolishness. What is going on here? The high places are where the pagan Canaanites sacrificed to their 'gods'. (1 Kings 3:1-4).

At last, we hear from God; here is what he says to Solomon in a dream: "Ask what I should give to you." That's it. Not, "Solomon, this is what I would have you do." Not, "Here my servant, what I would say:" No. What the Lord speaks here is not an offer of a pleased Father, it is a test; and in Solomon's case, I have come to see, it is a trap. "Ask what I should give to you."

Now, I have always been taught that Solomon gave a great answer to this question. I myself have prayed the prayer of Solomon many times, and today the Lord caused me to repent of it; because He has opened my eyes to what Solomon really was asking for here:

"...Give therefore to Your servant an understanding heart to judge Your people and to discern between good and evil." (1 Kings 3:9).

Do you see that? Sounds good, doesn't it? What's he really asking for here though? He's asking to be a judge over God's people... but isn't it God's place to judge? Further, he isn't asking for God to lead him, he's asking to eat from the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, so that he can DECIDE FOR HIMSELF. He is REJECTING God as his judge, as the light to his feet and lamp to his path, but wants instead the wisdom/knowledge to make it all on his own. I believe what Solomon should have asked for, was faith like Abrahams. If he had that kind of faith, he could have been used of God to do some tremendous works....

God honors his prayer; and tops it off with more wealth than Solomon could imagine. Curious blessing, considering "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven". Lord, preserve us. Lord, when we pray foolishly - forgive us; I do not want my foolish prayers answered.

So what happens next? Well, according to everything I've ever heard or read, what happens next is a tremendous blessing to Israel and even later to us: Solomon was chosen to build the Temple of God.... right?

Well, consider what Scripture tells us; and consider who Solomon sounds like when he says "I intend to build a house for the name of Jehovah my God according to what Jehovah spoke to David my father, saying, 'Your son, whom I will put on your throne in your place, he will build a house for My name.'"

Wow.

Solomon, true to form - usurps a word God spoke to David for himself. Was he right to do so? Tell me, do the Psalms of David prophecy of his son Solomon, or his 'son', Christ? Was not Christ called the "Son of David"? To whom was promised David's throne forever and forever? Not Solomon, but to CHRIST! Solomon doesn't ask God whether he should build him a "house" or not, nor does he ask what form such a house should take, or of what material to build it, or where to locate it. He simply usurps a promise and begins to plan construction all on his own.

Read what is recorded, Solomon planned the whole design and constructon of the temple on his own. He fills it with graven images, and hand-cut stones (against the clear dictates of God who always wanted natural stone, not man-carved stone on His altars). What does God say about this, well - He says nothing until construction is at least half-way complete - then he says this:

"As for this house that you are building, IF you walk in My statutes and execute My ordinances and keep all My commandments, by walking in them, THEN I will establish My word with you, which I spoke to David your father; And I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel, and I will not forsake My people Israel."

Listen to that! First, the Lord refers to the Temple NOT as HIS house, but as "this" house. Secondly, He offers Solomon not a promise but an ultimatum: IF you do this, I will do that. But Solomon hasn't been keeping all of God's commandments; we've already seen that... and he's not about to change his ways. So the implication is that God will NOT do His part either. Further, even if Solomon DID walking in God's ways, He never says He will live in this house that Solomon is building - rather, that He will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel. God rejected the Temple from BEFORE day one.

...to be continued...

In Christ,

Neither First nor Last

ZNPaaneah · 01-16-2011, 02:44 PM

Well that was an enjoyable read, thank you.

I think to understand what is truly very confusing we need to consider a few principles. The Lord said "if you have known me you have seen my father". The children express the father. David has a spiritual, soulish and fleshly side. We can see this in his children. All the children involved in the rebellion were the fleshly expression. Solomon, the "wisest man on Earth" was the soulish expression. Finally, it is Nathan, who represents David's spiritual side. It is through Nathan that the prophecy to David is fulfilled (Mary is descended from Nathan). The soul is supposed to let the spirit take the lead, but as you have so clearly pointed out repeatedly Solomon usurps God's authority. As you have pointed out Solomon assumes that the prophecy will be fulfilled through him, but he is mistaken and his lineage is cut off from the promise. However, Joseph is descended from Solomon and so through marriage it is reunited with God's purpose.

Although there is nothing that will specifically tell you that Nathan the prophet is David's son, there is compelling evidence. First, the Bible tells us that all of David's other sons were caught up in rebellion, I would expect that would have disqualified all of them from the promise. Second, the first time we hear of Nathan the prophet he has direct access to the king (we don't know why). Read that story again and imagine it is a young son of David talking to his father. Third, we hear a lot about many of David's sons, if Nathan the prophet is not David's son then why don't we hear about his son Nathan who is a more important figure than Solomon (why would Jesus be descended through him rather than the other sons?)

NeitherFirstnorLast · 01-19-2011, 06:27 PM

Praise the Lord, brother! I hadn't considered this Nathan as that Nathan! Perhaps the evidence is not concrete, but it is very compelling. I always thought it odd that a commoner - even a prophet of God - would dare to speak to King David as Nathan did. I really found it surprising that he didn't even seem to consider he might lose his head for that. It certainly seems as though this relationship might be why... it also illustrates the significance of Nathan being left out of the counsel of Adonijah as well (1 Kings 1:10), for why else would Nathan be so concerned with the possible succession of this particular son of David?

ZNPaaneah · 01-19-2011, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeitherFirstnorLast

Praise the Lord, brother! I hadn't considered this Nathan as that Nathan! Perhaps the evidence is not concrete, but it is very compelling. I always thought it odd that a commoner - even a prophet of God - would dare to speak to King David as Nathan did. I really found it surprising that he didn't even seem to consider he might lose his head for that. It certainly seems as though this relationship might be why... it also illustrates the significance of Nathan being left out of the counsel of Adonijah as well (1 Kings 1:10), for why else would Nathan be so concerned with the possible succession of this particular son of David?

King David's seed was not through Solomon, it was through Nathan to Mary to Jesus. So, it was the guy that spoke the word of God, not the "wise" son.

NeitherFirstnorLast · 01-27-2011, 10:18 AM

Lord Jesus.

Last week I drove eight hours north east and visited with the dear brother who first introduced me to LSM. The brother who had always made time for me, cared for me and my family, prayed for us and with us, and who has been as much family to me or more than many blood relatives. He has heard that I have been "struggling with the ministry", and knows that I have been hear - speaking to the ones who left. As you all know, this is taboo - absolutely forbidden - and of course, he had genuine concern.

This brother grew up in the Recovery.... to him, this is THE Church. There is nothing here that is not good for consumption, and there is nothing worth regarding outside of it... "too much leaven in Christianity", he'd always say. Lord Jesus.

He never mentioned anything about what I was doing online while I was there, but I know the saints I've been meeting with here have discussed it with him. They've come to believe that I've been corrupted... "You have to be careful where you draw your water from!" I've been warned.

I left this brother's house the next day, and on the return trip he decided to pry a little - so he texted me and asked why I had been so quiet... why I seemed somewhat distant. I prayed about answering that.

You see, for two and half years I've struggled with the ministry. So much of what I read of Nee I enjoy - but I see no similarity between Lee and Nee, honestly. In Nee I see humility - a genuine Christian man on a genuine walk with God... but not so with Lee. ...Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble." 1 Peter 5:5... Only if we humble ourselves before the Lord, will He lift us up in joy and honor (James 4:10)

In any case, I came before the Lord in prayer - and felt lead that it was time. I read that night the story in 1 Kings 13, and saw what the Lord was saying. It was time. I was to eat and drink no more in this land, and go back another way. So be it, Lord.

I wrote to the brother a simple, brief letter of repentance. I had to go to work, and didn't have time to do more than confess there were a lot of things very wrong - and that I hadn't been faithful to follow the leading of the Spirit. I had become a hypocrite and I needed to repent of that. I promised to write him in detail on the Saturday, and I asked him not to respond yet to my brief letter....

He texted me back, and I will quote this dear brother because I found his texted response absolutely prophetic of the Lord's own speaking - although I think this brother would not see it so; he wrote:

"If we do not say that we have this power, we rebel against the word of our Father. Our Father cannot lie; whatever He says is true. Hence, we must take His Word and believe it.
Forget your feelings, your condition, and your situation. Do not say that a certain difficult situation cannot be put under your feet. The truth is that we are far above all and that the divine power has subjected all things, including every difficult situation, under our feet. Do not be distracted by your environment, and do not believe your situation. Forget everything and simply take the word, believe the word, and declare the word."

Amen.

I took the Word, I believed the Word, and I declared the Word. I spoke the Truth in Love.

On Saturday night I spent hours wrestling with God - and He touched me and I had no hope of success... but I hung on until He blessed me. I wrote my brother as the Spirit lead - and confessed all. I won't go into it here - believe me brothers and sisters when I tell you that I plead with him to see certain things - reminding him of things he himself says he believes that the actions and traditions of LSM so clearly demonstrate against. I told him that I do not reject the Church Life as it is written by Nee... but that we are not practicing the Church Life. We have become a division, a sect with even higher walls than any denomination ever built. Walls that not only keep other members of the Body out, but also walls that keep us in - and prevent us from moving forth as the Body to serve the Lord and fulfill His Father's Will. I spoke to him of the testimony of our own functioning - the lack of growth, the loss of the blessings, the turmoils and the mistreatment of the brothers and sisters who have left - how we have been told to utterly reject them; but they are still Saved Children of God for whom Christ Himself suffered on the Cross. Held in His hands, He promised that nothing would ever snatch them away... and yet we cast them aside and call them "evil tailed ones"... Where is the love of Christ in our hearts for them? We don't have it.... Where is the fruit of the Spirit? How can we say we are abiding in Him and He in us if the fruit isn't here?

Lord Jesus. I told him that I would not reject the Church Life - but I would seek it. I would live it. I would fellowship as we were meant to - receiving all believers in Christ and submitting myself to Him who made me; that His will might be done. Lord Jesus! I told him I had had a wonderful fellowship the day before when we (my family and I) went to go and see a horse. The people we met with there were genuine believers, and we shared our testimony with them - we ate with them and enjoyed with them... and that Lord's Day we went to enjoy Christ with them. We went to a church building on a farm in the country... Three Hills, Alberta. It's a small place, saints. There were maybe all of 40 or us there; 41 with the Lord. He was there too. You could FEEL Him.

The Saints who came were from all walks of life. There were spanish folks, asian folks, and caucasians. Who would have thought, outside of LSM? There was no Pastor, but many who came up to speak... and the message was perfect; it was about Grace... about the fallacy of Anemic Grace and the lie of a Grace for Liberty. It was about the true meaning of Christ's all sufficient atoning work - and the work to which we are now called. Not to sit and sing and learn but to stand, proclaim, and minister Christ to all! If we are all a nation of Priests, then do we imagine that Priests simply sit and here what other brothers have to say? No. They received the Word with all humility, and prayed fervently on their knees before God for His ministration - so that they might comfort others with the comfort with which they themselves were then comforted.

I found a miracle in that place to which the Lord lead me; because amongst the brothers and sisters there a man presented himself to me: His name was David, and he came from China more than thirty years ago. He met the Lord in the Little Flock.

Amazing Grace, how sweet the Sound! Here in the middle of nowhere I meet a man who has been sent out by the Lord as a missionary... a man who left the Little Flock more than thirty years ago (and was condemned for it), but who followed the Lord to preach His Word. He has travelled all over the World, and he is here only until June before he must leave again. This man is well read of Nee, of Darby, of Stephen Kaung, and others of whom I haven't heard. He didn't know much of anything about Lee, and nothing at all about LSM.. but that's not the point: the point is this Brother followed the Leading of the Spirit. He was sent out, and he went - in spite of the condemnation.

Brothers and sisters, no where in Revelation does Christ call His overcomers from one of the seven churches into another. He doesn't seek for them to abolish their buildings and to meet together in a single place. The Lord has placed each member of His Body where He will - for His purpose; and the overcomers are those who know His voice and who Obey His voice, and do as He leads - wherever that might be.

There is One Body, One Bride of Christ - but He hasn't revealed her yet. He will gather them on the day that He appears - and no sooner. Saints, if you want to see Him sooner, live Him sooner. Let Him live through you... and do not expect that it will be easy. The World hated Him, and the servant is not greater than the Master.

It has been five days now, and I have not heard a word from my brother. The silence is deafening. Lord Jesus, I have Your peace - but I want to ask for Your peace for my brother. Lord Jesus, give him ears to hear, Lord. Let him hear Your voice.

PS: I wanted to title this post "Leper, Outcast, Unclean". If you're familiar with it, this is the mantra recited by Stephen R. Donaldson's character Thomas Covenant in a fantasy series I enjoyed very much as a child. Sometimes saints, we are treated as Lepers for declaring the Word of the Lord... but do not be dismayed. Christ ministered to the lepers. When they asked it of Him, he healed them... and sent them to the priests to testify concerning Himself.

Preach the Word Saints, and listen for His voice. Jesus Christ is still my Lord, and always will be.

Amen

01-27-2011, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeitherFirstnorLast

Brothers and sisters, no where in Revelation does Christ call His overcomers from one of the seven churches into another. He doesn't seek for them to abolish their buildings and to meet together in a single place. The Lord has placed each member of His Body where He will - for His purpose; and the overcomers are those who know His voice and who Obey His voice, and do as He leads - wherever that might be.

There is One Body, One Bride of Christ - but He hasn't revealed her yet. He will gather them on the day that He appears - and no sooner. Saints, if you want to see Him sooner, live Him sooner. Let Him live through you... and do not expect that it will be easy. The World hated Him, and the servant is not greater than the Master.

It has been five days now, and I have not heard a word from my brother. The silence is deafening. Lord Jesus, I have Your peace - but I want to ask for Your peace for my brother. Lord Jesus, give him ears to hear, Lord. Let him hear Your voice.

Amen! I hear and feel with my spirit your words. I haven't been to a LD meeting since early September. My spirit is bothered and saddened by negative prophesying I've witnessed. I spoke to one elder in my locality, but he brushed it aside as it being one person's feeling. I cannot subject my spirit to that type of speaking. It's best to depart and find a healthy fellowship to take the Lord's Table with.

ZNPaaneah · 01-27-2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeitherFirstnorLast

Lord Jesus.

Last week I drove eight hours north east and visited with the dear brother who first introduced me to LSM. The brother who had always made time for me, cared for me and my family, prayed for us and with us, and who has been as much family to me or more than many blood relatives. He has heard that I have been "struggling with the ministry", and knows that I have been hear - speaking to the ones who left. As you all know, this is taboo - absolutely forbidden - and of course, he had genuine concern.

This brother grew up in the Recovery.... to him, this is THE Church. There is nothing here that is not good for consumption, and there is nothing worth regarding outside of it... "too much leaven in Christianity", he'd always say. Lord Jesus.

He never mentioned anything about what I was doing online while I was there, but I know the saints I've been meeting with here have discussed it with him. They've come to believe that I've been corrupted... "You have to be careful where you draw your water from!" I've been warned.

I left this brother's house the next day, and on the return trip he decided to pry a little - so he texted me and asked why I had been so quiet... why I seemed somewhat distant. I prayed about answering that.

You see, for two and half years I've struggled with the ministry. So much of what I read of Nee I enjoy - but I see no similarity between Lee and Nee, honestly. In Nee I see humility - a genuine Christian man on a genuine walk with God... but not so with Lee. ...Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble." 1 Peter 5:5... Only if we humble ourselves before the Lord, will He lift us up in joy and honor (James 4:10)

In any case, I came before the Lord in prayer - and felt lead that it was time. I read that night the story in 1 Kings 13, and saw what the Lord was saying. It was time. I was to eat and drink no more in this land, and go back another way. So be it, Lord.

I wrote to the brother a simple, brief letter of repentance. I had to go to work, and didn't have time to do more than confess there were a lot of things very wrong - and that I hadn't been faithful to follow the leading of the Spirit. I had become a hypocrite and I needed to repent of that. I promised to write him in detail on the Saturday, and I asked him not to respond yet to my brief letter....

He texted me back, and I will quote this dear brother because I found his texted response absolutely prophetic of the Lord's own speaking - although I think this brother would not see it so; he wrote:

"If we do not say that we have this power, we rebel against the word of our Father. Our Father cannot lie; whatever He says is true. Hence, we must take His Word and believe it.
Forget your feelings, your condition, and your situation. Do not say that a certain difficult situation cannot be put under your feet. The truth is that we are far above all and that the divine power has subjected all things, including every difficult situation, under our feet. Do not be distracted by your environment, and do not believe your situation. Forget everything and simply take the word, believe the word, and declare the word."

Amen.

I took the Word, I believed the Word, and I declared the Word. I spoke the Truth in Love.

On Saturday night I spent hours wrestling with God - and He touched me and I had no hope of success... but I hung on until He blessed me. I wrote my brother as the Spirit lead - and confessed all. I won't go into it here - believe me brothers and sisters when I tell you that I plead with him to see certain things - reminding him of things he himself says he believes that the actions and traditions of LSM so clearly demonstrate against. I told him that I do not reject the Church Life as it is written by Nee... but that we are not practicing the Church Life. We have become a division, a sect with even higher walls than any denomination ever built. Walls that not only keep other members of the Body out, but also walls that keep us in - and prevent us from moving forth as the Body to serve the Lord and fulfill His Father's Will. I spoke to him of the testimony of our own functioning - the lack of growth, the loss of the blessings, the turmoils and the mistreatment of the brothers and sisters who have left - how we have been told to utterly reject them; but they are still Saved Children of God for whom Christ Himself suffered on the Cross. Held in His hands, He promised that nothing would ever snatch them away... and yet we cast them aside and call them "evil tailed ones"... Where is the love of Christ in our hearts for them? We don't have it.... Where is the fruit of the Spirit? How can we say we are abiding in Him and He in us if the fruit isn't here?

Lord Jesus. I told him that I would not reject the Church Life - but I would seek it. I would live it. I would fellowship as we were meant to - receiving all believers in Christ and submitting myself to Him who made me; that His will might be done. Lord Jesus! I told him I had had a wonderful fellowship the day before when we (my family and I) went to go and see a horse. The people we met with there were genuine believers, and we shared our testimony with them - we ate with them and enjoyed with them... and that Lord's Day we went to enjoy Christ with them. We went to a church building on a farm in the country... Three Hills, Alberta. It's a small place, saints. There were maybe all of 40 or us there; 41 with the Lord. He was there too. You could FEEL Him.

The Saints who came were from all walks of life. There were spanish folks, asian folks, and caucasians. Who would have thought, outside of LSM? There was no Pastor, but many who came up to speak... and the message was perfect; it was about Grace... about the fallacy of Anemic Grace and the lie of a Grace for Liberty. It was about the true meaning of Christ's all sufficient atoning work - and the work to which we are now called. Not to sit and sing and learn but to stand, proclaim, and minister Christ to all! If we are all a nation of Priests, then do we imagine that Priests simply sit and here what other brothers have to say? No. They received the Word with all humility, and prayed fervently on their knees before God for His ministration - so that they might comfort others with the comfort with which they themselves were then comforted.

I found a miracle in that place to which the Lord lead me; because amongst the brothers and sisters there a man presented himself to me: His name was David, and he came from China more than thirty years ago. He met the Lord in the Little Flock.

Amazing Grace, how sweet the Sound! Here in the middle of nowhere I meet a man who has been sent out by the Lord as a missionary... a man who left the Little Flock more than thirty years ago (and was condemned for it), but who followed the Lord to preach His Word. He has travelled all over the World, and he is here only until June before he must leave again. This man is well read of Nee, of Darby, of Stephen Kaung, and others of whom I haven't heard. He didn't know much of anything about Lee, and nothing at all about LSM.. but that's not the point: the point is this Brother followed the Leading of the Spirit. He was sent out, and he went - in spite of the condemnation.

Brothers and sisters, no where in Revelation does Christ call His overcomers from one of the seven churches into another. He doesn't seek for them to abolish their buildings and to meet together in a single place. The Lord has placed each member of His Body where He will - for His purpose; and the overcomers are those who know His voice and who Obey His voice, and do as He leads - wherever that might be.

There is One Body, One Bride of Christ - but He hasn't revealed her yet. He will gather them on the day that He appears - and no sooner. Saints, if you want to see Him sooner, live Him sooner. Let Him live through you... and do not expect that it will be easy. The World hated Him, and the servant is not greater than the Master.

It has been five days now, and I have not heard a word from my brother. The silence is deafening. Lord Jesus, I have Your peace - but I want to ask for Your peace for my brother. Lord Jesus, give him ears to hear, Lord. Let him hear Your voice.

PS: I wanted to title this post "Leper, Outcast, Unclean". If you're familiar with it, this is the mantra recited by Stephen R. Donaldson's character Thomas Covenant in a fantasy series I enjoyed very much as a child. Sometimes saints, we are treated as Lepers for declaring the Word of the Lord... but do not be dismayed. Christ ministered to the lepers. When they asked it of Him, he healed them... and sent them to the priests to testify concerning Himself.

Preach the Word Saints, and listen for His voice. Jesus Christ is still my Lord, and always will be.

Amen

Brother this letter if full of the personal experience of the Lord and the Lord's working in your life. It is far better to be wrestling with the Lord and true to your spirit than it is to be complacent. The Lord be with you and with your spirit.

NeitherFirstnorLast · 01-27-2011, 05:18 PM

Thank you brother,

ZN, I read your testimony after I made that last post. Thank you for what you expressed there - for it being real - for how you felt. I feel that. On the one hand, I know I followed His leading. Finally. I have wrestled for so long a time... And I still love my brothers and sisters left behind. They were so much a part of our lives... I don't know almost what to do. Lord, I leave it all to You.

I've been reading "The Church Divided", this week. There's a lot of good speaking there, from brothers and sisters throughout the churches, about what the "ground of Oneness" is really supposed to look like; and about what it isn't.

Thanks so much to all of you, for being here for those of us who wrestle to know Him more fully. You have a purpose in the Body, and you've helped this member more than you know.

In Christ,

Ray.

01-16-2011, 02:44 PM	#2
ZNPaaneah Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 7,105	Re: My Journey to the Local Church, and beyond... Well that was an enjoyable read, thank you. I think to understand what is truly very confusing we need to consider a few principles. The Lord said "if you have known me you have seen my father". The children express the father. David has a spiritual, soulish and fleshly side. We can see this in his children. All the children involved in the rebellion were the fleshly expression. Solomon, the "wisest man on Earth" was the soulish expression. Finally, it is Nathan, who represents David's spiritual side. It is through Nathan that the prophecy to David is fulfilled (Mary is descended from Nathan). The soul is supposed to let the spirit take the lead, but as you have so clearly pointed out repeatedly Solomon usurps God's authority. As you have pointed out Solomon assumes that the prophecy will be fulfilled through him, but he is mistaken and his lineage is cut off from the promise. However, Joseph is descended from Solomon and so through marriage it is reunited with God's purpose. Although there is nothing that will specifically tell you that Nathan the prophet is David's son, there is compelling evidence. First, the Bible tells us that all of David's other sons were caught up in rebellion, I would expect that would have disqualified all of them from the promise. Second, the first time we hear of Nathan the prophet he has direct access to the king (we don't know why). Read that story again and imagine it is a young son of David talking to his father. Third, we hear a lot about many of David's sons, if Nathan the prophet is not David's son then why don't we hear about his son Nathan who is a more important figure than Solomon (why would Jesus be descended through him rather than the other sons?)

01-19-2011, 06:27 PM	#3
NeitherFirstnorLast Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 348	Re: My Journey to the Local Church, and beyond... Praise the Lord, brother! I hadn't considered this Nathan as that Nathan! Perhaps the evidence is not concrete, but it is very compelling. I always thought it odd that a commoner - even a prophet of God - would dare to speak to King David as Nathan did. I really found it surprising that he didn't even seem to consider he might lose his head for that. It certainly seems as though this relationship might be why... it also illustrates the significance of Nathan being left out of the counsel of Adonijah as well (1 Kings 1:10), for why else would Nathan be so concerned with the possible succession of this particular son of David?

01-27-2011, 10:18 AM	#5
NeitherFirstnorLast Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 348	...And Beyond... Lord Jesus. Last week I drove eight hours north east and visited with the dear brother who first introduced me to LSM. The brother who had always made time for me, cared for me and my family, prayed for us and with us, and who has been as much family to me or more than many blood relatives. He has heard that I have been "struggling with the ministry", and knows that I have been hear - speaking to the ones who left. As you all know, this is taboo - absolutely forbidden - and of course, he had genuine concern. This brother grew up in the Recovery.... to him, this is THE Church. There is nothing here that is not good for consumption, and there is nothing worth regarding outside of it... "too much leaven in Christianity", he'd always say. Lord Jesus. He never mentioned anything about what I was doing online while I was there, but I know the saints I've been meeting with here have discussed it with him. They've come to believe that I've been corrupted... "You have to be careful where you draw your water from!" I've been warned. I left this brother's house the next day, and on the return trip he decided to pry a little - so he texted me and asked why I had been so quiet... why I seemed somewhat distant. I prayed about answering that. You see, for two and half years I've struggled with the ministry. So much of what I read of Nee I enjoy - but I see no similarity between Lee and Nee, honestly. In Nee I see humility - a genuine Christian man on a genuine walk with God... but not so with Lee. ...Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble." 1 Peter 5:5... Only if we humble ourselves before the Lord, will He lift us up in joy and honor (James 4:10) In any case, I came before the Lord in prayer - and felt lead that it was time. I read that night the story in 1 Kings 13, and saw what the Lord was saying. It was time. I was to eat and drink no more in this land, and go back another way. So be it, Lord. I wrote to the brother a simple, brief letter of repentance. I had to go to work, and didn't have time to do more than confess there were a lot of things very wrong - and that I hadn't been faithful to follow the leading of the Spirit. I had become a hypocrite and I needed to repent of that. I promised to write him in detail on the Saturday, and I asked him not to respond yet to my brief letter.... He texted me back, and I will quote this dear brother because I found his texted response absolutely prophetic of the Lord's own speaking - although I think this brother would not see it so; he wrote: "If we do not say that we have this power, we rebel against the word of our Father. Our Father cannot lie; whatever He says is true. Hence, we must take His Word and believe it. Forget your feelings, your condition, and your situation. Do not say that a certain difficult situation cannot be put under your feet. The truth is that we are far above all and that the divine power has subjected all things, including every difficult situation, under our feet. Do not be distracted by your environment, and do not believe your situation. Forget everything and simply take the word, believe the word, and declare the word." Amen. I took the Word, I believed the Word, and I declared the Word. I spoke the Truth in Love. On Saturday night I spent hours wrestling with God - and He touched me and I had no hope of success... but I hung on until He blessed me. I wrote my brother as the Spirit lead - and confessed all. I won't go into it here - believe me brothers and sisters when I tell you that I plead with him to see certain things - reminding him of things he himself says he believes that the actions and traditions of LSM so clearly demonstrate against. I told him that I do not reject the Church Life as it is written by Nee... but that we are not practicing the Church Life. We have become a division, a sect with even higher walls than any denomination ever built. Walls that not only keep other members of the Body out, but also walls that keep us in - and prevent us from moving forth as the Body to serve the Lord and fulfill His Father's Will. I spoke to him of the testimony of our own functioning - the lack of growth, the loss of the blessings, the turmoils and the mistreatment of the brothers and sisters who have left - how we have been told to utterly reject them; but they are still Saved Children of God for whom Christ Himself suffered on the Cross. Held in His hands, He promised that nothing would ever snatch them away... and yet we cast them aside and call them "evil tailed ones"... Where is the love of Christ in our hearts for them? We don't have it.... Where is the fruit of the Spirit? How can we say we are abiding in Him and He in us if the fruit isn't here? Lord Jesus. I told him that I would not reject the Church Life - but I would seek it. I would live it. I would fellowship as we were meant to - receiving all believers in Christ and submitting myself to Him who made me; that His will might be done. Lord Jesus! I told him I had had a wonderful fellowship the day before when we (my family and I) went to go and see a horse. The people we met with there were genuine believers, and we shared our testimony with them - we ate with them and enjoyed with them... and that Lord's Day we went to enjoy Christ with them. We went to a church building on a farm in the country... Three Hills, Alberta. It's a small place, saints. There were maybe all of 40 or us there; 41 with the Lord. He was there too. You could FEEL Him. The Saints who came were from all walks of life. There were spanish folks, asian folks, and caucasians. Who would have thought, outside of LSM? There was no Pastor, but many who came up to speak... and the message was perfect; it was about Grace... about the fallacy of Anemic Grace and the lie of a Grace for Liberty. It was about the true meaning of Christ's all sufficient atoning work - and the work to which we are now called. Not to sit and sing and learn but to stand, proclaim, and minister Christ to all! If we are all a nation of Priests, then do we imagine that Priests simply sit and here what other brothers have to say? No. They received the Word with all humility, and prayed fervently on their knees before God for His ministration - so that they might comfort others with the comfort with which they themselves were then comforted. I found a miracle in that place to which the Lord lead me; because amongst the brothers and sisters there a man presented himself to me: His name was David, and he came from China more than thirty years ago. He met the Lord in the Little Flock. Amazing Grace, how sweet the Sound! Here in the middle of nowhere I meet a man who has been sent out by the Lord as a missionary... a man who left the Little Flock more than thirty years ago (and was condemned for it), but who followed the Lord to preach His Word. He has travelled all over the World, and he is here only until June before he must leave again. This man is well read of Nee, of Darby, of Stephen Kaung, and others of whom I haven't heard. He didn't know much of anything about Lee, and nothing at all about LSM.. but that's not the point: the point is this Brother followed the Leading of the Spirit. He was sent out, and he went - in spite of the condemnation. Brothers and sisters, no where in Revelation does Christ call His overcomers from one of the seven churches into another. He doesn't seek for them to abolish their buildings and to meet together in a single place. The Lord has placed each member of His Body where He will - for His purpose; and the overcomers are those who know His voice and who Obey His voice, and do as He leads - wherever that might be. There is One Body, One Bride of Christ - but He hasn't revealed her yet. He will gather them on the day that He appears - and no sooner. Saints, if you want to see Him sooner, live Him sooner. Let Him live through you... and do not expect that it will be easy. The World hated Him, and the servant is not greater than the Master. It has been five days now, and I have not heard a word from my brother. The silence is deafening. Lord Jesus, I have Your peace - but I want to ask for Your peace for my brother. Lord Jesus, give him ears to hear, Lord. Let him hear Your voice. PS: I wanted to title this post "Leper, Outcast, Unclean". If you're familiar with it, this is the mantra recited by Stephen R. Donaldson's character Thomas Covenant in a fantasy series I enjoyed very much as a child. Sometimes saints, we are treated as Lepers for declaring the Word of the Lord... but do not be dismayed. Christ ministered to the lepers. When they asked it of Him, he healed them... and sent them to the priests to testify concerning Himself. Preach the Word Saints, and listen for His voice. Jesus Christ is still my Lord, and always will be. Amen

01-27-2011, 05:18 PM	#8
NeitherFirstnorLast Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 348	...And beyond... Thank you brother, ZN, I read your testimony after I made that last post. Thank you for what you expressed there - for it being real - for how you felt. I feel that. On the one hand, I know I followed His leading. Finally. I have wrestled for so long a time... And I still love my brothers and sisters left behind. They were so much a part of our lives... I don't know almost what to do. Lord, I leave it all to You. I've been reading "The Church Divided", this week. There's a lot of good speaking there, from brothers and sisters throughout the churches, about what the "ground of Oneness" is really supposed to look like; and about what it isn't. Thanks so much to all of you, for being here for those of us who wrestle to know Him more fully. You have a purpose in the Body, and you've helped this member more than you know. In Christ, Ray.