Witness Lee says he’s the Oracle of God & an Apostle.

[Zezima]

They were not made apostles by the Lord directly, nor were they constituted by the Lord’s revelation directly. They were produced by the Lord’s directly appointed apostles. They were produced apostles, produced by Paul. A certain brother was told that there were seven apostles among us in the Lord’s recovery. He went to a brother to get the list of these seven apostles. When I looked at this list and considered the names, I realized that all the seven were my students. They all learned of me. I am not likening myself to Paul, but the principle is the same. There are apostles who have been appointed directly by the Lord and have been constituted directly through the Lord’s revelation, and there are apostles produced by the Lord’s directly appointed apostles.

Further Light Concerning the Building Up of the Body of Christ, Chapter 5, Section 2

If you have been listening to God in my speaking, you have been blessed. My speaking of these main, new revelations in the past twenty-five years has been the oracle of God.

Further Light Concerning the Building Up of the Body of Christ, Chapter 5, Section 1


With statements like this, it’s easy to see how those in the Lord’s Recovery are trapped. They believe they are under the Oracle of God’s teachings. Is there any biblical evidence that supports such claims?

When did you realize that Witness Lee was indeed not an apostle or the Oracle of God?

[gr8ful]

When did you realize that Witness Lee was indeed not an apostle or the Oracle of God?

For me it was a slow realization that occurred experientially before cognitively.

That is, my mind was filled with years of reassurance that The Ministry of the Age was God's Up-to-date speaking and was the High Peak of the Divine Revelation, so any inability on my part to see it, understand it, or be satisfied with it was due my own weakness and human flesh/soulish failure. If only I PRSP'ed more, HWMR'ed more, prepared my 2 min prophecy for the Lord's Day more, called on the name of the Lord more, denied myself more, submitted to "The Body" more... then I would have the vision. That's what I hopelessly believed.

But experientially, the Ministry (and the meetings based on them) were ineffective in my daily life for years. Far from having God-Man living, I was barely living at all. I didn't blame the repeated teachings that were rehashed every few years with loftier modifiers -- I thought I was broken from seeing the things of God, from finding "my place" in the Body of Christ.

The cognitive realization came once I was in the pit of despair and had nothing to lose. Prior to this point, if someone outside the Lord's Recovery had offered some words of wisdom or ministry, I immediately judged it as missing the mark of "God's Economy" (after all, it didn't come from Living Stream Ministry, so how *could* it be in-line with God's Economy?) and silently resisted it to the point of rejecting it. But, at the end of my rope, I had to admit nothing in all the Ministry material I had read (or had a hand in producing) could save me from my end. And then something weird happened: I began to read, again, without the years and years of indoctrination. I set aside the "LSM Filter" and allowed myself to receive wisdom and ministry from others.

Once doing so, I was able to admit that The Lord's Recovery does not have a lock on truth, whether divine or human, and once that realization took hold, the blinders of "One Ministry" and "One Speaking" and "One Publishing" fell away. How small had my world been! How limited was my God in the Local Churches -- that Supplement Song title "How Small Thou Art" took on a different, sadder meaning.

Are there *no truths* in the materials published by Living Stream Ministry? I would say such a claim is as wrong as claiming LSM was The Ministry of the Age. There's truths, yes. But truths outside of The Lord's Recovery are not scarce, either. God is bigger than any group, no matter how highly it considers itself (The Body, *the* local expression of the church, the miniature of the New Jerusalem, whatever).

It is too bad that The Lord's Recovery had to go deeper into insular isolationism, separating from all others who have a portion of the Truth to share. By doing so not only have they limited the experience of their own flock, but have hidden what positive things they could contribute to others. Like the Ravenites (Closed Brethren, Taylorites, Bruce Hale followers) from whence they came and whose sordid path they continue to tread, they'll end up as a footnote and a curiosity. No more.

[Bible-believer]

Rev.2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: (KJV)

If WL had apostolic signs and wonders, otherwise, he was a liar. Did anyone witness Lee "took up serpents with his bare hands; drank any deadly thing but not hurt; laid hands on the sick, and heal."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Zezima

When did you realize that Witness Lee was indeed not an apostle or the Oracle of God?

Like gr8ful I had a long period of time “questioning everything.” Prior to leaving, I had spent a couple years studying our spiritual forbears, the Plymouth Brethren. Specifically I studied the accounts surrounding their first division. At that time I lost much respect for John Darby and George Wigram.

But it was my reading John Ingalls’ acccount, “Speaking the Truth in Love,” that caused me to realize the illegitimacy of WL as the MOTA. Specifically, his unrighteousness, slandering others to protect his own degenerate son Philip. WL had become like “old Eli” in 1 Samuel who allowed his boys to damage the people of God. Upon further study, I came to realize that every so-called “storm” in the Recovery was actually initiated, not by rebels, but by the saints merely crying out for justice, and WL then using the bully pulpit to destroy them.

[Zezima]

While only a few responses, it all orbits the idea of critics thought. This maybe why the Lord’s Recovery likens thought such as that to satan. Because, the lords recovery and the pillars of truth there don’t stand up to such actions

[Timotheist]

The last straw for me was ~'84. whenever the Philippians training occurred.

During that training, as I recall, was the first time I heard that Lee was an "apostle".

I left the LC that year for good.

[Zezima]

Originally Posted by Timotheist

The last straw for me was ~'84. whenever the Philippians training occurred.

During that training, as I recall, was the first time I heard that Lee was an "apostle".

I left the LC that year for good.

Why did that claim cause you to leave?

[Timotheist]

Originally Posted by Zezima

Why did that claim cause you to leave?

Because they were becoming the cult they said they were not.

[LeftLR]

Where in the Bible does it show that Witness Lee is the oracle of God, and since when did Witness Lee became an Apostle? Did the Bible mention Witness Lee as an Apostle? If the Bible did not show what Witness Lee said he is, then Witness Lee is a Liar. Witness Lee is a sinner, just like you and I.

The Bible said very clearly to stay away from anyone who preaches a false message. LC / LSM / Bible for America all have the same goal, to preach a false gospel, which is the message of Witness Lee.
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