Prophecy - The End Times

Nell · 02-02-2022, 06:50 AM

RUSSIA, MAGOG?
Ezekiel 38:1-3 NKJV
38 Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, [a]the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3 and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal.

Who is Gog? Gog is believed to be a title for a person, like the “president” of the land of Magog.

https://truthnet.org/Ezekiel/9-Ezeki...iel-38-Gog.htm

https://www.endtime-insights.org/202...ssia-rosh.html

https://midseventiethweekrapture.blo...is-russia.html

Ezekiel 38:1-3 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

There is significant question as to the word “Rosh”. Can it legitimately be interpreted as “Russia”? I don’t know, but my question is “If not Russia, who?” So far, I haven’t found an answer. Those who believe Rosh is not Russian offer no answers either.

Ezekiel 5:5 Thus saith the Lord God; This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries that are round about her.

From Ezekiel 5:5 and Ezekiel 38-39 we see that this geographical position in a prophetic context places Jerusalem in the center. The prophet Daniel described the ruler who would lead an attack against Israel in the latter days as the “king of the north”. Dan. 11:5-35 Ezekiel’s prophecy says the invading armies will come to Israel “from the far north” Ezek. 38:6, 15.

Only one country occupies a geographical position in the “far north” in relation to Israel. Russia. The Russian landmass stretches from the Baltic to the Bering Sea.

This seems to be better evidence than the etymology of the word “Rosh”.

Who and where is Gog/Magog?
Who is Gog…the leader of the united countries that will invade Israel? What countries will invade Israel? Magog, Meshech, Tubal, Persia, Libia, Gomer, Togamarh. In the present day, Russia and Turkey will lead the coalition, from the North, they will be joined by Iran from the east, Sudan and Libia from the south, and possibly Germany from the west. These nations represent a revived European coalition.

Ezekiel 38:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

Why will Russia and its allies attack Israel?
1. To seize Israel’s land (Eze. 38:11-12)
2. Steal Israel’s wealth (Eze. 38:12-13)
3. To slaughter Israel’s people. (Eze. 38:16)
4. To set the stage for God’s punishment of Russia and her allies for their history of rebellion against Him.

When will the invasion occur?
Three things must happen first. Two have already taken place.
1. Israel must exist in its own land. This happened in 1948.
2. Israel must be prosperous in its land. This has happened. The prosperity of Israel today is beyond question.
3. Peace in Israel. After the seven-year peace treaty with antichrist. Peace has never achieved in Israel’s existence as a Nation. Not even close. So today, the Russian invasion is nowhere near imminent. But, it will come.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Defeat of Magog by God Himself
Ezekiel 38:15-16 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:
16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

When all hope for the survival of Israel is gone:
Eze. 38:18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord God, that my fury shall come up in my face.
19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

Great shaking in the land of Israel
1. Earthquakes (Eze. 38:19-20) 19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; 20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
2. Military confusion; v. 21 (2 Chron. 20:22-25) 21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord God: every man's sword shall be against his brother.
3. Disease Epidemic: Eze. 38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
4. Calamities: Ezekiel 39:1-6 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: 2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel: 3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand. 4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. 5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God. 6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the Lord.

This massive destruction leaves a grisly scene in Israel. God sends in ravenous birds to clean up the mess.

Zechariah 12:9-11
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

Zechariah 14:2
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Nell · 02-23-2022, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nell

RUSSIA, MAGOG?
Ezekiel 38:1-3 NKJV
38 Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, [a]the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3 and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal.

Who is Gog? Gog is believed to be a title for a person, like the “president” of the land of Magog.

https://truthnet.org/Ezekiel/9-Ezeki...iel-38-Gog.htm

https://www.endtime-insights.org/202...ssia-rosh.html

https://midseventiethweekrapture.blo...is-russia.html ...

Just to follow up with another perspective on Russia/Magog:

"There seems to be a lot of confusion in the Christian community about the role Russia and America play in the end times. Neither country is mentioned in the Bible, but many Christian Americans tend to examine prophecy from a Western-centric, non-Jewish worldview. In reality, prophecy’s timepiece is Israel and how it is impacted by the nations found in and emanating from the table of nations in Genesis 10. For example, Noah’s grandsons from Japheth—Gomer, Magog, Meshech, Tubal are specifically mentioned in the end time prophecy of Ezekiel 38 as part of a coalition led by Gog of Magog against Israel. These nations are located in what is now modern Turkey—not Russia as is widely taught.

The assertion of Russia in the Bible is a mistranslation of the word “Rosh.” The Ezekiel 38:2 King James translation says, “Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him.” Whereas the New American Standard errs in its translation, “Son of man, set your face toward Gog of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him.” The Complete Jewish Bible translation is: “Human being, turn your face toward Gog (of the land of Magog), chief prince of Meshekh and Tuval, and prophesy against him.” The mistranslation is such: “Rosh,” or “Ros” in Hebrew, translated correctly is always “Chief” or “Head,” never “Russia” (i.e., Rosh Hashana, meaning “Head” of the year)." Bill Wilson, The Daily Jot

Nell

countmeworthy · 02-23-2022, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nell

Just to follow up with another perspective on Russia/Magog:

"There seems to be a lot of confusion in the Christian community about the role Russia and America play in the end times. Neither country is mentioned in the Bible, but many Christian Americans tend to examine prophecy from a Western-centric, non-Jewish worldview. In reality, prophecy’s timepiece is Israel and how it is impacted by the nations found in and emanating from the table of nations in Genesis 10. For example, Noah’s grandsons from Japheth—Gomer, Magog, Meshech, Tubal are specifically mentioned in the end time prophecy of Ezekiel 38 as part of a coalition led by Gog of Magog against Israel. These nations are located in what is now modern Turkey—not Russia as is widely taught.

The assertion of Russia in the Bible is a mistranslation of the word “Rosh.” The Ezekiel 38:2 King James translation says, “Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him.” Whereas the New American Standard errs in its translation, “Son of man, set your face toward Gog of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him.” The Complete Jewish Bible translation is: “Human being, turn your face toward Gog (of the land of Magog), chief prince of Meshekh and Tuval, and prophesy against him.” The mistranslation is such: “Rosh,” or “Ros” in Hebrew, translated correctly is always “Chief” or “Head,” never “Russia” (i.e., Rosh Hashana, meaning “Head” of the year)." Bill Wilson, The Daily Jot

Nell

I appreciate your insight and in depth studies 👍. I am also studying and praying fervently for more understanding, revelation and knowledge. Blessings be upon the true believers and followers of Jesus, The Word of God, our Savior and King.

Nell · 02-24-2022, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

I appreciate your insight and in depth studies 👍. I am also studying and praying fervently for more understanding, revelation and knowledge. Blessings be upon the true believers and followers of Jesus, The Word of God, our Savior and King.

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Thanks, Carole. Its important to "keep the things that are written", but hard to keep if you don't know what these "things" are! "The time is at hand" might indicate we should have started our "keeping" a long time ago.

Your thoughts are appreciated and welcome on this topic. Going back to the beginning verses of prophecy (I think, maybe), the serpent has been rebelling against eatin' dirt since the garden, and has been behind the evil that has existed in God's creation ever since. The serpent, the devil, has read the book of Revelation

Gen. 3:14 And Jehovah God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, cursed art thou [g]above all cattle, and [h]above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: he shall [i]bruise thy head, and thou shalt [j]bruise his heel

Going back to Genesis 6:5 (ASV) And Jehovah saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Nell

countmeworthy · 02-24-2022, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nell

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Chuck Missler brought to my attention that the book of Revelation is the only book in the Bible that states we are literally blessed for reading it. Of course we are blessed in reading the entire Bible. ��

I have been a prophesy buff since 2005 when pope John Paul II died.
Revelation 2:19 came to light hitting me like a 2X4. The scripture refers to the church in Thyatira. Her deeds being greater in the end than they were in her beginning.

The list of his accomplishments went on and on and on. Watching all the diplomats, kings, presidents, prime ministers, Jews, Muslims and Christians all paying their respects to this religious man stunned me. These same people were not there for Billy Graham’s funeral. (Not that THAT was important in any way). Just making a point about Revelation 2:19.

That was the start of my journey as I truly believe the Holy Spirit revealed to me we were now running the last leg in the age of Grace.

I remember the first question I had was,

Quote:

what is the difference between the rapture and the second coming of Christ?

Through the teachings of Chuck Missler and the writings of Clarence Larkin who died in 1925, I learned the rapture is the event in which Christ comes FOR us and the second coming is the event Christ comes WITH us in which every eye will now see Him.

I am not so sure Jesus is coming “FOR” us since it does not say He will touch the ground and pick us up. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 says we will meet the LORD in the air. The dead in Christ will rise first then we who are alive AND REMAIN (hmm ��) will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Interesting that it says “we who are alive AND REMAIN”. I do have some thoughts on why it says “and remain”. But that’s for another day.

1 Corinthians 15:52-53 also says we will be changed in the blink of an eye and this mortality will put on immortality and this corruptible body will put on our incorruptible glorious body. We will be translated. I always picture the scenes on Star Trek, where people step on to the transporter and they desintigrate and appear somewhere else. “Beam me up Scotty!”. But it is still a “rapture” event. I don’t believe this event will be like”the left behind books and movies” portray the rapture.

There could very well be a world wide earthquake, the rumors of wars are certainly no longer rumors. But certainly the true Blood washed believers in Christ Jesus will experience an event the world has never experienced as of yet.

There were 2 “raptures” in the OT. First one is Enoch. The second one is Elijah, in 2 kings chapter 2. Elisha, and more than 70 prophets not only witnessed Elijah going up in a chariot, but KNEW Elijah was going to go up that very day.

I believe the Holy Spirit will reveal to each and everyone of us the day we will be glorified and translated, when the time comes.

I realize I sort of dissected from the conversation of the current events at hand. I have my thoughts on this subject too. But for now I will stop here. To be continued later.

Blessings be to all through our Savior and Awesome King, Jesus, the Author, Perfector and Finisher of our Faith in Him.

Come Quickly Beloved Dearest Lord Jesus. Amen.

Nell · 02-27-2022, 05:13 AM

ARMAGEDDON
Revelation 12:3-4 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

When beginning to study the prophecies and trying to figure out what’s going on, I was confused by the invasion of Israel by Magog (Russia) and its allies. My thinking was, how can this possibly not be the battle of Armageddon? My problem was, simple. If it WAS the battle of Armageddon, why didn’t “they” (whoever) just call it “Armageddon”? Well, they didn’t because they didn’t. That’s the only answer I could come up with. So, just keep digging.

When I reached the battle that IS called the battle of Armageddon, David Jeremiah says this: “Satan’s first attempt at persecution will be the battle of Gog and Magog. This battle, which precedes the battle of Armageddon, will be a massive, Russian-led coalition of nations coming against Israel like a swarm of hornets against a defenseless child.” David Jeremiah, Book of Signs, p. 337.

In the battle of Gog and Magog, we are told the battle is so intense that only God Himself can rescue Israel from being annihilated.

Satan knows prophecy, much better than I do. The rebuke he received in the Garden has been ringing in his ears since it happened. He knows his future and has been in a seething rage ever since. The seed of woman is on the scene, ready to crush him once and for all. Satan’s goal, before his own destruction, is to destroy the Jewish people before Christ’s kingdom can be established to rule the earth. This kingdom will be the ultimate fulfillment of the covenant God made with Abraham to bless his people, the Jews and Gentiles.

Timotheist · 02-27-2022, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

I am not so sure Jesus is coming “FOR” us since it does not say He will touch the ground and pick us up. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 says we will meet the LORD in the air. The dead in Christ will rise first then we who are alive AND REMAIN (hmm ��) will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Interesting that it says “we who are alive AND REMAIN”. I do have some thoughts on why it says “and remain”. But that’s for another day.

I am curious to hear what you have to say... after all, it is now "another day".

A lot rides on this phrase "alive AND remain" if it is being used to support a rapture before the second coming.

Young's translation reads this way:

17 then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be; (1Th*4:17*YLT)

Note the missing word "and", which the more honest translations will put in italics, indicating that it is not in the Greek.

Young's uses a comma, not a conjunction. This changes the meaning of the verse significantly, and Young's translation is more consistent with the context. As I stated before, Paul is trying to assure the Thessalonians that those who died will see Christ first, at the resurrection. Period. If he believed in a pre-resurrection rapture, this passage would have read differently.

countmeworthy · 02-28-2022, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timotheist

I am curious to hear what you have to say... after all, it is now "another day".

A lot rides on this phrase "alive AND remain" if it is being used to support a rapture before the second coming.

Young's translation reads this way:

17 then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be; (1Th*4:17*YLT)

Note the missing word "and", which the more honest translations will put in italics, indicating that it is not in the Greek.

Young's uses a comma, not a conjunction. This changes the meaning of the verse significantly, and Young's translation is more consistent with the context. As I stated before, Paul is trying to assure the Thessalonians that those who died will see Christ first, at the resurrection. Period. If he believed in a pre-resurrection rapture, this passage would have read differently.

Thank you for your question. To be clear I truly believe there will be a catching up, a harpazo, or rapture before the second coming of Christ in which every eye will see Him. In fact I think there is going to be more than one rapture but that’s a topic for another time. You may not think so, but that is ok by me. After all we are still here!! And this is just food for thought.

So in Matthew 27:52, of it reads “Also the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the [a]saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection, they entered the holy city and appeared to many.”

In 1 Corinthians 15:52-53 we read that
in the twinkling or blink of an eye, the dead (in Christ) shall be raised …and we shall be changed. we will put on our Glorified, incorruptible, immortal bodies.

Our bodies will now be Glorified.

Philippians 3:21 says

(Our Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ); will transform the body of our lowly condition into conformity with His Glorious Body,

It seems POSSIBLE, repeat POSSIBLE (no actual proof) that when we are changed into our Glorified bodies in the twinkling of an eye, we might remain here for a short time just as many of the the resurrected saints of the OT did when Jesus resurrected as we read in Matthew 27:52.

Why cannot that happen? After all 1 Thessalonians 4:17 says we who are alive AND REMAIN! Or as Young’s literal translation reads

And the dead in Christ shall rise first,
17 then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be;

Regardless of the translation, the dead in Christ rise first correct? Then we who are living, who are remaining over… WOW, That really brings Mathew 27 to light if you ask me! Those resurrected saints from the OT remained over in Jerusalem!

I think just as the resurrected remained on earth for some time, we could very well remain ourselves.

We have biblical proof that many bodies of the OT saints when they resurrected remained in Jerusalem and appeared to many.

Imagine if our loved ones, friends, neighbors, coworkers saw us in our Glorified, incorruptible, immortal bodies before we are caught up in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air???

What a Glorious testimony! How many people might get saved then. They might not get caught up like we did, but they will be saved and be with the Lord at some point. Again FOOD FOR THOUGHT!

I do want to get back to the Russia/Gog discussion… hopefully sometime today.

Blessings from our Beloved LORD AND KING

Ohio · 02-23-2022, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nell

Just to follow up with another perspective on Russia/Magog:

"There seems to be a lot of confusion in the Christian community about the role Russia and America play in the end times. Neither country is mentioned in the Bible, but many Christian Americans tend to examine prophecy from a Western-centric, non-Jewish worldview. In reality, prophecy’s timepiece is Israel and how it is impacted by the nations found in and emanating from the table of nations in Genesis 10. For example, Noah’s grandsons from Japheth—Gomer, Magog, Meshech, Tubal are specifically mentioned in the end time prophecy of Ezekiel 38 as part of a coalition led by Gog of Magog against Israel. These nations are located in what is now modern Turkey—not Russia as is widely taught.

The assertion of Russia in the Bible is a mistranslation of the word “Rosh.” The Ezekiel 38:2 King James translation says, “Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him.” Whereas the New American Standard errs in its translation, “Son of man, set your face toward Gog of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him.”

Nell

I do agree with the first part of this about Israel-centric prophecies, but even though these grandsons from Japheth were once located in Turkey during Ezekiel's time, I don't think that requires these tribes to remain in Turkey for the next 3 Millennia.

Also, I do think it's more than a coincidence that Rosh, Meshech (Moscow, Russia) is exactly north of Jerusalem on the same longitude within a couple degrees.

Nell · 02-03-2022, 08:28 AM

Very interesting John Ankerberg interview with Dr. Jimmy DeYoung. There are several interviews.

https://jashow.org/prophecy/

Nell

You may recall, or not, that John Ankerberg co-authored "Encyclopedia of Cults and New Religions" published by Harvest House, and included a chapter on Witness Lee and the Local Church. Of course, they filed a lawsuit against Harvest House, Ankerberg and Weldon. The LC lost its case on appeals all the way up to the Supreme Court, which refused to hear the appeal.

Here are the details from Harvest House if you're interested

Nell · 02-05-2022, 04:58 AM

AMERICA
Of course, there is no mention of the United States of America, by name, in the Bible. Yet surely God has blessed America as America has blessed the Nation of Israel. Two examples: beginning in 1948 as soon as the National Declaration of Independence was declared, a US President, Harry S. Truman, recognized Israel as the authority of the Jewish State. In 2019, another US President, moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem, recognizing the “true capitol” of Israel.

The Nation of Israel, May 14, 1948
The Nation of Israel Declaration of Independence
“…this right is the natural right of the Jewish people to be masters of their own fate, like all other nations in their own Sovereign State.

Accordingly…we are here assembled…and by virtue of our natural and historic right, and on the strength of the resolution of the United Nations General Assembly, hereby declare the establishment a Jewish State in Ezret-Israel, to be known as the State of Israel.” David Ben-Gurion, Jewish leader.

U.S. Recognition of the State of Israel
At midnight on May 14, 1948, the Provisional Government of Israel proclaimed a new State of Israel. On that same date, the United States, in the person of President Truman, recognized the provisional Jewish government as the de facto authority of the Jewish state.

US opens embassy in Jerusalem,
recognizing city as ‘true capital’ of Israel
By Brooke Singman , Judson Berger , | Fox News
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-opens-embas`sy-in-jerusalem-recognizing-city-as-true-capital-of-israel
…
The Trump administration officially opened the new U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem on Monday, in a historic move cheered by Israelis but met with mass protests from Palestinians that turned deadly in the lead-up to the ceremony.
…
In moving the embassy from Tel Aviv to the holy city -- a relocation long debated in Washington -- Trump said America was simply recognizing reality.

"For many years, we have failed to acknowledge the obvious, plain reality that the [Israeli] capital is Jerusalem. At my direction, the United States finally and officially recognized Jerusalem as the true capital of Israel," Trump said.

“The United States will always be a great friend of Israel and a partner in the cause of peace,” Trump said in his video address. “We extend a hand in friendship to Israel, the Palestinians and to all of their neighbors. May there be peace.”

In his Life Study of Revelation,
Message 37, God’s Preservation of the Woman, Witness Lee says this:

“Some may wonder what the wilderness is. I cannot answer this question definitely, but I do have my own realization of what it might be. Although I do not wish to interpret this verse, I am willing to share with you my realization of what the wilderness is. Since its beginning, the United States has been a land to which people who desire a free conscience toward God might escape. We are all familiar with the story of the Mayflower. The pilgrims fled from persecution and escaped to this country. For more than three hundred years, America has been used by God as a refuge for His escapees. The symbol of this country is an eagle. When the persecution comes, many of God’s people may escape to the United States by airplane. Hallelujah, there will be a wilderness on earth for God’s escapees! Even today, the United States is still a refuge for escapees.”

In these messages 36-37, interspersed, is an almost shameless promotion of his own preconceived notion of the importance of his own “ministry” in the end times.

Would Lee have the same take on America today?

There are too many instances of God’s blessing on America, from its conception to today. There are also a terribly large number of American people who have fallen away from its rich Christian heritage. None of these are specifically related to this discussion of historic prophecies related to America. There are certainly prophecies that will be discussed later which are more related to Christians in general, but not American Christians specifically.

Nell · 02-08-2022, 05:27 AM

In summary, the Tribulation is the 7-year time period in the end times in which humanity’s decadence and depravity will reach its fullness, with God judging accordingly. Many Christian scholars have the understanding of Daniel’s 70 sevens, with 483 years having passed from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the cutting off of the Messiah, this leaves one seven-year period to be fulfilled in terms of Daniel 9:24: “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” This final seven-year period is known as the tribulation period—it is a time when God finishes judging Israel for its sin.

Daniel 9:24-27 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This passage speaks of 70 weeks that have been declared against “your people.” Daniel’s people are the Jews, the nation of Israel, and Daniel 9:24 speaks of a period of time that God has given “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” God declares that “seventy sevens” will fulfill all these things. This is 70 sevens of years, or 490 years. (Some translations refer to 70 weeks of years.) This is confirmed by another part of this passage in Daniel. In verses 25 and 26, Daniel is told that the Messiah will be cut off after “seven sevens and sixty-two sevens” (69 total), beginning with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. In other words, 69 sevens of years (483 years) after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, the Messiah will be cut off. Biblical historians confirm that 483 years passed from the time of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the time when Jesus was crucified.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 9:27 gives a few highlights (lowlights?) of the seven-year tribulation period: “He will confirm a covenant with many for one ’seven.' In the middle of the ’seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”

The person of whom this verse speaks is the person Jesus calls the “abomination that causes desolation” (Matthew 24:15) and is called “the beast” in Revelation 13. Daniel 9:27 says that the beast will make a covenant for seven years, but in the middle of this week (3 1/2 years into the tribulation), he will break the covenant, putting a stop to sacrifice.

Revelation 13 explains that the beast will place an image of himself in the temple and require the world to worship him. Revelation 13:5 says that this will go on for 42 months, which is 3 1/2 years. Since Daniel 9:27 says that this will happen in the middle of the week, and Revelation 13:5 says that the beast will do this for a period of 42 months, it is easy to see that the total length of time is 84 months or seven years.

Revelation 13 13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Also see Daniel 7:25, where the “time, times, and half a time” (time=1 year; times=2 years; half a time=1/2 year; total of 3 1/2 years) also refers to “great tribulation,” the last half of the seven-year tribulation period when the beast will be in power.

Daniel 7:25
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

For further references about the tribulation, see Revelation 11:2-3, which speaks of 1260 days and 42 months, and Daniel 12:11-12, which speaks of 1290 days and 1335 days. These days have a reference to the midpoint of the tribulation. The additional days in Daniel 12 may include the time at the end for the judgment of the nations (Matthew 25:31-46) and time for the setting up of Christ’s millennial kingdom (Revelation 20:4-6).

02-02-2022, 06:50 AM	#1
Nell Admin/Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 2,119	Re: Prophecy - The End Times RUSSIA, MAGOG? Ezekiel 38:1-3 NKJV 38 Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, [a]the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3 and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal. Who is Gog? Gog is believed to be a title for a person, like the “president” of the land of Magog. https://truthnet.org/Ezekiel/9-Ezeki...iel-38-Gog.htm https://www.endtime-insights.org/202...ssia-rosh.html https://midseventiethweekrapture.blo...is-russia.html Ezekiel 38:1-3 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: There is significant question as to the word “Rosh”. Can it legitimately be interpreted as “Russia”? I don’t know, but my question is “If not Russia, who?” So far, I haven’t found an answer. Those who believe Rosh is not Russian offer no answers either. Ezekiel 5:5 Thus saith the Lord God; This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries that are round about her. From Ezekiel 5:5 and Ezekiel 38-39 we see that this geographical position in a prophetic context places Jerusalem in the center. The prophet Daniel described the ruler who would lead an attack against Israel in the latter days as the “king of the north”. Dan. 11:5-35 Ezekiel’s prophecy says the invading armies will come to Israel “from the far north” Ezek. 38:6, 15. Only one country occupies a geographical position in the “far north” in relation to Israel. Russia. The Russian landmass stretches from the Baltic to the Bering Sea. This seems to be better evidence than the etymology of the word “Rosh”. Who and where is Gog/Magog? Who is Gog…the leader of the united countries that will invade Israel? What countries will invade Israel? Magog, Meshech, Tubal, Persia, Libia, Gomer, Togamarh. In the present day, Russia and Turkey will lead the coalition, from the North, they will be joined by Iran from the east, Sudan and Libia from the south, and possibly Germany from the west. These nations represent a revived European coalition. Ezekiel 38:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: Why will Russia and its allies attack Israel? 1. To seize Israel’s land (Eze. 38:11-12) 2. Steal Israel’s wealth (Eze. 38:12-13) 3. To slaughter Israel’s people. (Eze. 38:16) 4. To set the stage for God’s punishment of Russia and her allies for their history of rebellion against Him. When will the invasion occur? Three things must happen first. Two have already taken place. 1. Israel must exist in its own land. This happened in 1948. 2. Israel must be prosperous in its land. This has happened. The prosperity of Israel today is beyond question. 3. Peace in Israel. After the seven-year peace treaty with antichrist. Peace has never achieved in Israel’s existence as a Nation. Not even close. So today, the Russian invasion is nowhere near imminent. But, it will come. Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Defeat of Magog by God Himself Ezekiel 38:15-16 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army: 16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes. When all hope for the survival of Israel is gone: Eze. 38:18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord God, that my fury shall come up in my face. 19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; Great shaking in the land of Israel 1. Earthquakes (Eze. 38:19-20) 19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; 20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. 2. Military confusion; v. 21 (2 Chron. 20:22-25) 21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord God: every man's sword shall be against his brother. 3. Disease Epidemic: Eze. 38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 4. Calamities: Ezekiel 39:1-6 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: 2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel: 3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand. 4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. 5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God. 6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the Lord. This massive destruction leaves a grisly scene in Israel. God sends in ravenous birds to clean up the mess. Zechariah 12:9-11 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. Zechariah 14:2 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

02-27-2022, 05:13 AM	#6
Nell Admin/Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 2,119	Armageddon ARMAGEDDON Revelation 12:3-4 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. When beginning to study the prophecies and trying to figure out what’s going on, I was confused by the invasion of Israel by Magog (Russia) and its allies. My thinking was, how can this possibly not be the battle of Armageddon? My problem was, simple. If it WAS the battle of Armageddon, why didn’t “they” (whoever) just call it “Armageddon”? Well, they didn’t because they didn’t. That’s the only answer I could come up with. So, just keep digging. When I reached the battle that IS called the battle of Armageddon, David Jeremiah says this: “Satan’s first attempt at persecution will be the battle of Gog and Magog. This battle, which precedes the battle of Armageddon, will be a massive, Russian-led coalition of nations coming against Israel like a swarm of hornets against a defenseless child.” David Jeremiah, Book of Signs, p. 337. In the battle of Gog and Magog, we are told the battle is so intense that only God Himself can rescue Israel from being annihilated. Satan knows prophecy, much better than I do. The rebuke he received in the Garden has been ringing in his ears since it happened. He knows his future and has been in a seething rage ever since. The seed of woman is on the scene, ready to crush him once and for all. Satan’s goal, before his own destruction, is to destroy the Jewish people before Christ’s kingdom can be established to rule the earth. This kingdom will be the ultimate fulfillment of the covenant God made with Abraham to bless his people, the Jews and Gentiles.

02-03-2022, 08:28 AM	#10
Nell Admin/Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 2,119	Magog - Russia - Gog - Putin Very interesting John Ankerberg interview with Dr. Jimmy DeYoung. There are several interviews. https://jashow.org/prophecy/ Nell You may recall, or not, that John Ankerberg co-authored "Encyclopedia of Cults and New Religions" published by Harvest House, and included a chapter on Witness Lee and the Local Church. Of course, they filed a lawsuit against Harvest House, Ankerberg and Weldon. The LC lost its case on appeals all the way up to the Supreme Court, which refused to hear the appeal. Here are the details from Harvest House if you're interested

02-05-2022, 04:58 AM	#11
Nell Admin/Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 2,119	AMERICA AMERICA Of course, there is no mention of the United States of America, by name, in the Bible. Yet surely God has blessed America as America has blessed the Nation of Israel. Two examples: beginning in 1948 as soon as the National Declaration of Independence was declared, a US President, Harry S. Truman, recognized Israel as the authority of the Jewish State. In 2019, another US President, moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem, recognizing the “true capitol” of Israel. The Nation of Israel, May 14, 1948 The Nation of Israel Declaration of Independence “…this right is the natural right of the Jewish people to be masters of their own fate, like all other nations in their own Sovereign State. Accordingly…we are here assembled…and by virtue of our natural and historic right, and on the strength of the resolution of the United Nations General Assembly, hereby declare the establishment a Jewish State in Ezret-Israel, to be known as the State of Israel.” David Ben-Gurion, Jewish leader. U.S. Recognition of the State of Israel At midnight on May 14, 1948, the Provisional Government of Israel proclaimed a new State of Israel. On that same date, the United States, in the person of President Truman, recognized the provisional Jewish government as the de facto authority of the Jewish state. US opens embassy in Jerusalem, recognizing city as ‘true capital’ of Israel By Brooke Singman , Judson Berger , \| Fox News https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-opens-embas`sy-in-jerusalem-recognizing-city-as-true-capital-of-israel … The Trump administration officially opened the new U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem on Monday, in a historic move cheered by Israelis but met with mass protests from Palestinians that turned deadly in the lead-up to the ceremony. … In moving the embassy from Tel Aviv to the holy city -- a relocation long debated in Washington -- Trump said America was simply recognizing reality. "For many years, we have failed to acknowledge the obvious, plain reality that the [Israeli] capital is Jerusalem. At my direction, the United States finally and officially recognized Jerusalem as the true capital of Israel," Trump said. “The United States will always be a great friend of Israel and a partner in the cause of peace,” Trump said in his video address. “We extend a hand in friendship to Israel, the Palestinians and to all of their neighbors. May there be peace.” In his Life Study of Revelation, Message 37, God’s Preservation of the Woman, Witness Lee says this: “Some may wonder what the wilderness is. I cannot answer this question definitely, but I do have my own realization of what it might be. Although I do not wish to interpret this verse, I am willing to share with you my realization of what the wilderness is. Since its beginning, the United States has been a land to which people who desire a free conscience toward God might escape. We are all familiar with the story of the Mayflower. The pilgrims fled from persecution and escaped to this country. For more than three hundred years, America has been used by God as a refuge for His escapees. The symbol of this country is an eagle. When the persecution comes, many of God’s people may escape to the United States by airplane. Hallelujah, there will be a wilderness on earth for God’s escapees! Even today, the United States is still a refuge for escapees.” In these messages 36-37, interspersed, is an almost shameless promotion of his own preconceived notion of the importance of his own “ministry” in the end times. Would Lee have the same take on America today? There are too many instances of God’s blessing on America, from its conception to today. There are also a terribly large number of American people who have fallen away from its rich Christian heritage. None of these are specifically related to this discussion of historic prophecies related to America. There are certainly prophecies that will be discussed later which are more related to Christians in general, but not American Christians specifically.

02-08-2022, 05:27 AM	#12
Nell Admin/Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 2,119	The Great Tribulation In summary, the Tribulation is the 7-year time period in the end times in which humanity’s decadence and depravity will reach its fullness, with God judging accordingly. Many Christian scholars have the understanding of Daniel’s 70 sevens, with 483 years having passed from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the cutting off of the Messiah, this leaves one seven-year period to be fulfilled in terms of Daniel 9:24: “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” This final seven-year period is known as the tribulation period—it is a time when God finishes judging Israel for its sin. Daniel 9:24-27 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. This passage speaks of 70 weeks that have been declared against “your people.” Daniel’s people are the Jews, the nation of Israel, and Daniel 9:24 speaks of a period of time that God has given “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” God declares that “seventy sevens” will fulfill all these things. This is 70 sevens of years, or 490 years. (Some translations refer to 70 weeks of years.) This is confirmed by another part of this passage in Daniel. In verses 25 and 26, Daniel is told that the Messiah will be cut off after “seven sevens and sixty-two sevens” (69 total), beginning with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. In other words, 69 sevens of years (483 years) after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, the Messiah will be cut off. Biblical historians confirm that 483 years passed from the time of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the time when Jesus was crucified. Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Daniel 9:27 gives a few highlights (lowlights?) of the seven-year tribulation period: “He will confirm a covenant with many for one ’seven.' In the middle of the ’seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.” The person of whom this verse speaks is the person Jesus calls the “abomination that causes desolation” (Matthew 24:15) and is called “the beast” in Revelation 13. Daniel 9:27 says that the beast will make a covenant for seven years, but in the middle of this week (3 1/2 years into the tribulation), he will break the covenant, putting a stop to sacrifice. Revelation 13 explains that the beast will place an image of himself in the temple and require the world to worship him. Revelation 13:5 says that this will go on for 42 months, which is 3 1/2 years. Since Daniel 9:27 says that this will happen in the middle of the week, and Revelation 13:5 says that the beast will do this for a period of 42 months, it is easy to see that the total length of time is 84 months or seven years. Revelation 13 13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. Also see Daniel 7:25, where the “time, times, and half a time” (time=1 year; times=2 years; half a time=1/2 year; total of 3 1/2 years) also refers to “great tribulation,” the last half of the seven-year tribulation period when the beast will be in power. Daniel 7:25 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. For further references about the tribulation, see Revelation 11:2-3, which speaks of 1260 days and 42 months, and Daniel 12:11-12, which speaks of 1290 days and 1335 days. These days have a reference to the midpoint of the tribulation. The additional days in Daniel 12 may include the time at the end for the judgment of the nations (Matthew 25:31-46) and time for the setting up of Christ’s millennial kingdom (Revelation 20:4-6).