Overcomer Doctrine (Merged Thread)

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Raptor

The ones in Matthew 7, the servants in 24 and the 10 virgins in 25 are all believers.

Can you explain how you arrived at that conclusion?

Trapped

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Can you explain how you arrived at that conclusion?

Trapped

Just open and read the Word of God, it´s obvious.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Just open and read the Word of God, it´s obvious.

Raptor.

Obviously I opened and read the Word of God and came away with a different viewpoint. And I bothered to explain how I came to that viewpoint because I respect the members of this forum who read here. Do I just need to remind myself not to engage with you, because you repeatedly don't seem to want to engage when you post?

Trapped

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Raptor.

Obviously I opened and read the Word of God and came away with a different viewpoint. And I bothered to explain how I came to that viewpoint because I respect the members of this forum who read here. Do I just need to remind myself not to engage with you, because you repeatedly don't seem to want to engage when you post?

Trapped

I love you.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Raptor

I love you.

Thanks. Same to you. And if you ever have anything to say about your perspective that the ones in those passages are all believers, please do us the honor of explaining why you think so. I myself don't want to hold to an interpretation of any passage that can be shown to be the wrong interpretation. I'm all ears to hear the reasons behind a differing interpretation if you want to share them.

Trapped

[GraceAlone]

A person I know from my time in the LR posted this very recently on social media. It’s a quote from the HWMR.

“The three conditions by which God selects the overcomers are: (1) being absolute for God’s glory, (2) being afraid of nothing, and (3) allowing the cross to deal with the self.”

Consonant with the discussion here, I’m dying to know the scriptural basis for:
1. The premise of the statement. How do we know that “God selects Overcomers”?
2. The rest of the statement. How do we know these (and these alone) are the criteria? (And the “being afraid of nothing” sure seems ironic!)

I don’t know what to make anymore of the entire Overcomer theology, but I do know the fruit of it. I spent most of my life with a sense of dread hanging over me that I was probably not an Overcomer (despite trying to do all the things) and that the Lord was constantly disappointed in me for failing to reach this unknown and rather elitist Overcomer standard. As I detox, I’m coming to see that this robs many many saints of their joy and freedom in Christ and what He has already done for us out of His great love and grace.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

A person I know from my time in the LR posted this very recently on social media. It’s a quote from the HWMR.

“The three conditions by which God selects the overcomers are: (1) being absolute for God’s glory, (2) being afraid of nothing, and (3) allowing the cross to deal with the self.”

Consonant with the discussion here, I’m dying to know the scriptural basis for:
1. The premise of the statement. How do we know that “God selects Overcomers”?
2. The rest of the statement. How do we know these (and these alone) are the criteria? (And the “being afraid of nothing” sure seems ironic!)

I don’t know what to make anymore of the entire Overcomer theology, but I do know the fruit of it. I spent most of my life with a sense of dread hanging over me that I was probably not an Overcomer (despite trying to do all the things) and that the Lord was constantly disappointed in me for failing to reach this unknown and rather elitist Overcomer standard. As I detox, I’m coming to see that this robs many many saints of their joy and freedom in Christ and what He has already done for us out of His great love and grace.

What does it mean to be “absolute for God’s glory?” Any one find a verse for that?

What does it mean to be “afraid of nothing?” Even Jesus sweated drops of blood in Gethsemane. He feared what He knew was coming. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

But I do agree with the Blemdeds here, we should not fear them when we leave them or expose their works of darkness.

These leading Blendeds are on record saying that they fear facing Witness Lee in the future. Apparently more than they fear the Lord.

[aron]

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

“The three conditions by which God selects the overcomers are: (1) being absolute for God’s glory, (2) being afraid of nothing, and (3) allowing the cross to deal with the self.”

How arbitrary this is. Why not add a fourth condition: don't post on social media! Or a fifth: No Cheerios! Cheerios are bad!

But seriously, how about "love your neighbor?" The whole thing is just so brazenly made-up that it's mind boggling.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

A person I know from my time in the LR posted this very recently on social media. It’s a quote from the HWMR.

“The three conditions by which God selects the overcomers are: (1) being absolute for God’s glory, (2) being afraid of nothing, and (3) allowing the cross to deal with the self.”

Consonant with the discussion here, I’m dying to know the scriptural basis for:
1. The premise of the statement. How do we know that “God selects Overcomers”?
2. The rest of the statement. How do we know these (and these alone) are the criteria? (And the “being afraid of nothing” sure seems ironic!)

I don’t know what to make anymore of the entire Overcomer theology, but I do know the fruit of it. I spent most of my life with a sense of dread hanging over me that I was probably not an Overcomer (despite trying to do all the things) and that the Lord was constantly disappointed in me for failing to reach this unknown and rather elitist Overcomer standard. As I detox, I’m coming to see that this robs many many saints of their joy and freedom in Christ and what He has already done for us out of His great love and grace.

Totally agree on the "and what is the scriptural basis for those three requirements, please?" statement!

I remember as a young person sitting in LSM conferences where the speaking brother would say things like "If you think you are an overcomer, you probably aren't, and if you think you aren't, you probably are!" Or "Don't think about whether you are an overcomer, just focus on the Lord!"

I sat there thinking, "uh, talk about a mind game! Basically you have to ignore any thought of being an overcomer, while simultaneously having the awareness in the back of your head that after you get saved it's essentially the most important thing in front of you!" The way the LC taught it was ripe for a mental breakdown.

I thought for something that threatening and important, God should have created some kind of gauge embedded in our arms where it registered the current level of "oil" in us. Because otherwise we are totally flying blind!

Trapped

[Zezima]

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

I don’t know what to make anymore of the entire Overcomer theology, but I do know the fruit of it. I spent most of my life with a sense of dread hanging over me that I was probably not an Overcomer (despite trying to do all the things) and that the Lord was constantly disappointed in me for failing to reach this unknown and rather elitist Overcomer standard. As I detox, I’m coming to see that this robs many many saints of their joy and freedom in Christ and what He has already done for us out of His great love and grace.

Really resonated with this, it robbed me and I see it rob friends and family in the LR today. I personally always felt afraid and it forced me to “try” to check boxes. Well said GraceAlone, thank you.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

I don’t know what to make anymore of the entire Overcomer theology ...

Someone once commented that the "unsearchable riches" of Christ had become the "unreachable searches."

"Overcomer" theology is merely used by the Blendeds as a "carrot and stick" to keep their minions subservient to LSM mandates. Few actual carrots, just mostly big sticks.