The book of James and the LRC

[Cal]

What's interesting to me is that the LC was continually talking about being "the expression of Christ" and being "the testimony of God." Well, James tells us what that looks like. So you would think that it would be a favorite book of the LC. Because, as ZNP said, it tells us exactly what pure religion means--it means you care practically for the needs of the those who truly need help.

Love, in essence, means seeking the good of others at your own expense.

I've found that there are a lot mental barriers to the gospel, but caring for people in genuine love, especially when it involves sacrifice and becoming humble, is the most irresistible testimony that Christ's love is real in us. There is very little defense against it. It just melts people's hearts.

But Lee didn't like the language of James. I don't think he was against kind works. I just think he expected "clear" teachers to constantly be referring to "God's economy" like he did. James got in the way of his doctrine of the supremacy of "God's economy" above all other concepts, so he had to level a salvo against it. But in doing so he minimized a major factor of the testimony of God.

Imagine if LCers, with all their devotion and absoluteness, focused on good works in the community. I guarantee they would have grown and spread the gospel more than they have. Also, by having an attitude of care for the weak, they would have been far less likely to mistreat their own.

Also, care for others would mean reaching out more to other Christians, which would have resulted in less barriers, and more of the oneness they claimed to seek.

Ironically, the book they minimized was just the one they needed, and we all need.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Imagine if LCers, with all their devotion and absoluteness, focused on good works in the community. I guarantee they would have grown and spread the gospel more than they have. Also, by having an attitude of care for the weak, they would have been far less likely to mistreat their own.

For example, consider the things said by Sherman Robertson to Steve and relayed in his testimony on this forum.

1. “You don’t belong in the Lord’s Recovery.”
a. Who is qualified to make that determination. The very act of saying this indicates a major red flag. To put yourself in the position of the Lord is to say that you are the “super spiritual” brother and that Steve is an insignificant brother. This should raise up a major red flag.
b. There is a blessing in enduring this. The proper way to respond is head on, which is what Steve has done in posting this testimony, in writing directly to Sherman and in going on the internet when they ignore him. Steve is the one being perfected and growing as a result of this experience.
c. This comment as well as many other attacks were prompted by Steve’s attempt to evaluate the new way and its impact on the church. If people are walking in the light they would welcome and encourage this kind of assessment. I evaluate my progress as a teacher every year. I put down my goals at the beginning of the year and then evaluate how well I did in hitting these goals in the middle and end of the year. I do this in conference with my principal. However, if the errors were a result of the leaders in the recovery being enticed by their lusts then they will not welcome this kind of evaluation and instead will attack you for doing this. Therefore these attacks reveal the sins in their heart and are a major red flag.
d. In Steve’s testimony you can see many positive and wonderful experiences that he had, including his time in Taipei with the “New Way”. However, know that every good gift is from above. The Recovery has no monopoly on experiences of God. Threatening to kick someone out of the Recovery by saying “you don’t belong in the Lord’s Recovery” does not in any way separate you from the grace of God. Your experiences were not a result of being in the LRC, they were a result of being in Christ.
e. “Be ye doers of the word and not hearers only, deceiving yourself”. Seeking the truth is to be a doer of the word. Preaching the gospel, writing gospel tracts, raising up home meetings, these are all proper and healthy activities for a Christian. The fact that LSM and the elders want to completely control this, and even do everything in their power to prevent you from writing your own tract by ignoring you is a major red flag.
f. Pure religion is to visit the “fatherless” and “widows”. These are the people with no influence and power. In a society where men are the one with jobs, not having a father makes you powerless. Not having a husband makes you powerless. When you are in a church where it is all about power, influence, who you know, etc. then that is a major red flag.
g. The LRC has become a franchise church of LSM. This means that the elders and LSM leaders have “become spotted by the world”. This is a major red flag.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

e. “Be ye doers of the word and not hearers only, deceiving yourself”. Seeking the truth is to be a doer of the word. Preaching the gospel, writing gospel tracts, raising up home meetings, these are all proper and healthy activities for a Christian. The fact that LSM and the elders want to completely control this, and even do everything in their power to prevent you from writing your own tract by ignoring you is a major red flag.
f. Pure religion is to visit the “fatherless” and “widows”. These are the people with no influence and power. In a society where men are the one with jobs, not having a father makes you powerless. Not having a husband makes you powerless.

What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? James 2:14-16

Many times while meeting in the local churches I have heard "giving charity" being viewed with contempt. As it is works without faith. What is it when you have faith, but no works?

Someone looking from the outside may say that's hypocrisy. You say you love your neighbor as yourself, but is it so when your neighbor is without food? In my part of the country it is common for power outages to occur due to windstorms. If you love your neghbor as yourself would you say "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled"?

As much as disdain the book of James receives in the Local Churches, I can see why. It is exposing. Particularly in chapter 2 where our receiving is based more on reputations than it is in loving your neighbor as yourself.

[ZNPaaneah]

James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

In my experience the relationship of WL with WN was key. Whenever I or any other new one wondered who WL was they were told of WN and how WL was his closest coworker. In my opinion the respect of WN was one of the pillars that the entire LRC rested on.

One mistake I made was to feel that WN was clearly and undeniably a man of God, therefore if he judged that WL was also a genuine man of God (hence his closest coworker) then I could too.

According to James this is "having faith in our Lord Jesus Christ with respect of persons". Who better to say this than James.

Earlier we talked about the mistakes that Peter, Paul and James made.

Peter denied the Lord. As a result I think it was easier for him not to deny the Lord later when he was asked to open the kingdom to the Gentiles.

Paul persecuted the Body of Christ and as a result received the vision of the Body of Christ.

James made mistakes because the other saints in the Body had faith in the Lord Jesus with respect of persons, James. As a result James can get the vision to say this word.

I imagine the early church may have also had the same opinion towards James that I had towards WL. He is the "brother of Jesus, surely we can trust his judgment".

As a result we can learn from his mistake. In the same way, many of us may have made a mistake in trusting WL, but learning from that mistake helps us protect the Body from future similar mistakes.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

In my experience the relationship of WL with WN was key. Whenever I or any other new one wondered who WL was they were told of WN and how WL was his closest coworker. In my opinion the respect of WN was one of the pillars that the entire LRC rested on.

James here addresses serious errors in practice which violate the perfect law of freedom, (1.25) and which should have governed our sights regarding LC ministers. Our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, should never be governed by personal favoritism towards any man. The credentials and reputation of any minister should never elevate him above scrutiny by the church. The Lord's throne is founded on righteousness, and no minister should ever sideswipe the demands of righteousness and holiness in his quest to enjoy the glories reserved solely for our Lord Christ.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

James here addresses serious errors in practice which violate the perfect law of freedom, (1.25) and which should have governed our sights regarding LC ministers. Our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, should never be governed by personal favoritism towards any man. The credentials and reputation of any minister should never elevate him above scrutiny by the church. The Lord's throne is founded on righteousness, and no minister should ever sideswipe the demands of righteousness and holiness in his quest to enjoy the glories reserved solely for our Lord Christ.

Easier said than done. Did WN add some kind of "Good Housekeeping seal of approval" to the LRC in your mind?

Consider Bernie Madoff. He was once the head of the Nasdaq! That adds credibility, people feel a guy like that is already established financially and is not going to threaten his reputation with shady deals. No doubt it was the "respect of persons" that helped him build his business and rob people.

It is a proven fact that crooks in uniforms have an easier time in deceiving people. People tend to trust the uniform and ignore common sense.

The basic principle is you are tempted by your lust. If your lusts are put to death then you will not be tempted. I was fortunate for a couple of reasons. First, I didn't want to be in the church, as a result I spent a year trying to find fault to justify refusing this call. As a result I could care less about the leaders, I felt if the church was real you would see it in the smallest members. Second, after one year I had come to respect the faith of the brother that persevered, yet he was lowly and despised in the church. Likewise one of the brothers that shepherded me was of no account in the church. This caused me to view the dynamic of the entire caste system in the LRC differently. Finally, the brother that brought me in and with whom I lived for a few months was an evangelist in every sense of the word. You could not spend an hour with him without preaching the gospel and visiting gospel contacts. This kept me out of the snare of "being a hearer only and not a doer deceiving yourself".

They tried to convince me that WL's ministry was "deeper and richer" than WN's (WN is high school, WL is college). But I have plenty of self confidence in that regards so I didn't care if WN was high school since I felt I was getting more out of it. So buying books in the bookroom was also part of the caste system that I didn't buy into, fortunately.

Also I had no interest in becoming an expert in WL's ministry like EM wanted. I had wanted to be able to read the Bible and saw WN's ministry as my opportunity to figure out how to read the Bible. So a lot of the lusts that ensnared others didn't trap me.

Still, during that year in which I was trying to find an excuse not to come into the LRC, if I knew what I know now about WN that would have been sufficient for me to reject them.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Easier said than done. Did WN add some kind of "Good Housekeeping seal of approval" to the LRC in your mind?

No. Actually I sensed the opposite from reading WN's ministry. Whether you're meeting in a LRC assembly, or a non-LRC assembly this is a trap anyone can fall into if we as believers are not consccious of the trap of having an attitude of personal favoritism. As a result this favoritism can turn into the division Paul writes of in 1 Corinthians.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Easier said than done. Did WN add some kind of "Good Housekeeping seal of approval" to the LRC in your mind?

Consider Bernie Madoff. He was once the head of the Nasdaq! That adds credibility, people feel a guy like that is already established financially and is not going to threaten his reputation with shady deals. No doubt it was the "respect of persons" that helped him build his business and rob people.

James addresses "the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory" as the defining standard of God, His own "Good Housekeeping seal of approval." As soon as brothers begin elevating men over other men, playing favorites among members or leaders in the church, they have left the faith. James warns us that these same ones will one day hurt us. Did not WL, who was proclaimed to be the "richest" of them all, "oppress us and drag us into the courts?" (v 2.6)

James had witnessed failures of all sorts. He is warning us to keep the faith of the Lord Jesus, and not use other criteria whereby we honor or respect men. Even God Himself has no respect of persons. Compared to Him, we are all poor and needy, deserving nothing. We should never overly extol those in the church who appear richer, wiser, or more gifted than we because they are nothing compared to the Lord of glory.

Here the thought of James closely parallels Paul's in I Corinthians 1-3.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

James here addresses serious errors in practice which violate the perfect law of freedom, (1.25) and which should have governed our sights regarding LC ministers. Our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, should never be governed by personal favoritism towards any man. The credentials and reputation of any minister should never elevate him above scrutiny by the church. The Lord's throne is founded on righteousness, and no minister should ever sideswipe the demands of righteousness and holiness in his quest to enjoy the glories reserved solely for our Lord Christ.

What ZNP refers to in post #14 of this thread happened. A brother was disfellowshipped. Among LSM churches blended brothers (whether they agree or disagree) are respected to the extent their reputations are above scrutiny. So when a brother is banned in Bellevue or when a couple is banned in Vista, it's not so much what they did, but more out of respect by the leading elders for the blended brother who had a word of "fellowship" to tell. In these instances as Ohio posted, "The credentials and reputation of any minister should never elevate him above scrutiny by the church."

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Terry

What ZNP refers to in post #14 of this thread happened.

Here is another thing that happened:


James
2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

The discussion of being partial to the rich and having them sit in better seats is an analogy, he begins that discussion in verse 2 saying "for", he is explaining, and then verse 5 sums it up that he is talking about faith.

The phrase "the poor of the world" could refer to lacking anything, not merely money. You could walk into the LRC meeting hall lacking "spiritual credentials". In the LRC it makes a big difference if you are "2nd generation" or 3rd generation, etc. This was referred to all the time. They even taught that you are sanctified by your parents being in the LRC, so then if you are 2nd generation you are more sanctified than if you were saved into the LRC and if you are 3rd generation then you were even more sanctified.

Where did this teaching come from? Didn't WL promote this thinking because his close association with WN made him "more sanctified"? Yet in this chapter which describes him more, the one who is "poor of the world yet rich in faith" or the "rich man that oppresses you and draws you before judgment seats"?

In my opinion this was a major flaw in the LRC. They had respect of persons. RG was ga ga over WL, so much so that he was willfully blind to all that PL was even though he would have beat that person down if he wasn't WL's son.

When I was in Houston I knew two men in the church that were "the poor of the world who were rich in faith" that were also despised in the LRC. This is my testimony and the very thing that James warned us of.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Terry

What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? James 2:14-16

Many times while meeting in the local churches I have heard "giving charity" being viewed with contempt. As it is works without faith. What is it when you have faith, but no works?

Someone looking from the outside may say that's hypocrisy. You say you love your neighbor as yourself, but is it so when your neighbor is without food? In my part of the country it is common for power outages to occur due to windstorms. If you love your neghbor as yourself would you say "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled"?

As much as disdain the book of James receives in the Local Churches, I can see why. It is exposing. Particularly in chapter 2 where our receiving is based more on reputations than it is in loving your neighbor as yourself.

For many years I have wondered about a verse in the Psalms that says "with God there is forgiveness that He might be feared". I could never understand that. However, on this matter of receiving people based on reputation it makes sense.

Suppose someone slanders you at work to your boss out of jealousy, envy, etc. As a result of this slander your boss then attacks you unjustly. You might be tempted to become angry and not forgive your boss. But, that is the intended result, to drive a wedge between you and the boss. So the fact that "with you there is forgiveness" will put people in fear who would attempt this kind of slander. Ultimately, the act of slander can now blow up in the face of the slanderer, which puts the fear into them.

The flip side of this is that when we receive people based on reputation, or appearance, then the enemy has no fear of us at all.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

For many years I have wondered about a verse in the Psalms that says "with God there is forgiveness that He might be feared". I could never understand that. However, on this matter of receiving people based on reputation it makes sense.

Suppose someone slanders you at work to your boss out of jealousy, envy, etc. As a result of this slander your boss then attacks you unjustly. You might be tempted to become angry and not forgive your boss. But, that is the intended result, to drive a wedge between you and the boss. So the fact that "with you there is forgiveness" will put people in fear who would attempt this kind of slander. Ultimately, the act of slander can now blow up in the face of the slanderer, which puts the fear into them.

In addition to the example ZNP provided, it ca also happen among relatives or even in the church. You can either take the path of seeking self-vindication or you can take the path of "bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you" (Luke 6:28).

[aron]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

For many years I have wondered about a verse in the Psalms that says "with God there is forgiveness that He might be feared". I could never understand that...

I also struggled with that. It certainly seems opposite from logic. It may be helpful that the Psalm (#130) seems to reference Solomon's temple dedication prayer in 1 Kings 8.

38 "... and when a prayer or plea is made by anyone among your people Israel—being aware of the afflictions of their own hearts, and spreading out their hands toward this temple— 39 then hear from heaven, your dwelling place. Forgive and act; deal with everyone according to all they do, since you know their hearts (for you alone know every human heart), 40 so that they will fear you all the time they live in the land you gave our ancestors.

41 “As for the foreigner who does not belong to your people Israel but has come from a distant land because of your name— 42 for they will hear of your great name and your mighty hand and your outstretched arm—when they come and pray toward this temple, 43 then hear from heaven, your dwelling place. Do whatever the foreigner asks of you, so that all the peoples of the earth may know your name and fear you, as do your own people Israel, and may know that this house I have built bears your Name."

It's the opposite of our human logic. Instead of being big and bad and aloof, and causing fear, Solomon is asking God to be merciful and responsive, and he says that this will engender fear in the populace, both Israelite and foreigner alike.

It may be helpful to think of fear as related to "awe" and "reverence". It's like the fear that came over the disciples when they saw Jesus do works of power. He didn't do works of destruction, but rather works of healing and restoration. This was so amazing that they were seized with trembling, astonishment, and wonder.

In spite of how awful we are, and have been, God's power is so great that He can restore us to Himself.

[aron]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

For many years I have wondered about a verse in the Psalms that says "with God there is forgiveness that He might be feared". I could never understand that...

Another thing to think about is where Jesus said not to fear those who can kill the body, but rather to fear Him who can cast both body and soul into Gehenna (Matt 10:28).

Again, our human logic is to fear the big, tough guy. In our human system the one with the gun or the bomb has the power. But Jesus had the power to forgive, and the authority to give life. Look at the story in Matthew 9:2-7

Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”

At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, “This fellow is blaspheming!”

Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins…” Then he said to the paralytic, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” And the man got up and went home. When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to men.

Satan, temporarily, does have the power to cause trouble, and to kill the body (see e.g. Job 1:12). But God has the power to give eternal life. If God does not give you life, and you are cast away from Him and into Gehenna, then nothing can save you. In this, we do indeed fear God, and also Him whom He has sent, Jesus the Nazarene.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by aron

Satan, temporarily, does have the power to cause trouble, and to kill the body (see e.g. Job 1:12). But God has the power to give eternal life. If God does not give you life, and you are cast away from Him and into Gehenna, then nothing can save you. In this, we do indeed fear God, and also Him whom He has sent, Jesus the Nazarene.

You can "fear" someone but also despise them, have contempt for them, be disgusted with them, hate them. A tyrant would be one example, police brutality another, an abusive spouse or parent a third. In chapter 3 James talks about "masters" (a boss, president, head of house, elder, etc.)

Fear and respect are connected. Fear can be a very good thing and we teach it to our children. We use the term "healthy respect" to indicate a "good" fear. However this kind of fear needs to be taught, you are not born with it (though it seems man is the only animal that is not born with it, human babies naturally cry, a behavior very strange in the wild, even among top predators). The Bible says that "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom". However, if there was no forgiveness with God then we all would have struck out long before we had a chance to learn this fear and begin to get wisdom.

It is crucial for someone with authority to be given respect. Police, teachers, parents and elders cannot function if their is no respect. James understands this but warns 3:1 "My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. 3:2 For in many things we offend all." Becoming a tyrant, or abusive is an example of the kind of offense and condemnation you can receive.

Psalm 130:4 "But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared."

What is very difficult to learn is that forgiveness is the secret to a good fear, a "healthy respect" that does not include contempt, or hatred. For example, a student in our school stole a laptop. We were able to use video footage to prove this. The school required this student to return or pay for the stolen laptop. They could have been expelled, but instead the student has returned to the school after making restitution. As a result with this student there is now "fear". They know that if you do something like this they will get caught and have to pay the price. They have a "healthy respect" for the school's security. Now this same student can pass this same lesson on to their peers. There is no hatred or contempt for the school because the incident was treated in a dignified way. This is how you can teach respect in a way that avoids the mistakes James warns of. "But the tongue no man can tame." (James 3:8). I think the expression is "To err is human, to forgive divine". Taming the tongue is a work that demonstrates faith in God.