Overcomer Doctrine (Merged Thread)

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Which opens up a whole 'nuther topic. Do some lose their salvation, and what justifies a legitimate born again experience? Also, the Bible says those born of God cannot sin, so is that "thing" I just did really a sin, and was I never really saved?

Ray Comfort has a very detailed stance on this topic, or at least the topic of false conversions. Essentially someone needs to hear the real gospel first. Search something like "Hell's Best Kept Secret Ray Comfort". It's interesting, and I think worth the read. It informs his whole gospel preaching method.

This topic (true/false believers) just happened to pop up in a video I was watching tonight. The speaker made the point about how the branches are described in John 15 when Jesus speaks of the branches (us) being in the vine (Him):

John 15:1-2
1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.
2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.

Notice that even the branches that the Father cuts off because they are unfruitful are still described as being "in" the vine, Jesus. Both the branches that remain and those that are cut off started out "in the vine".

I can see this as being justification for genuine believers (who were "in the vine") who fell away. That seems like a reasonable interpretation. What their fate is, though, I genuinely don't know.

Or, we could pair it up with the other verses in the Bible that talk about the fruit that should be evident in the life of someone who is genuinely saved, and if there is no fruit, then they are not part of the vine anymore. Or maybe pair it up with the verses of those who preached in His name and drove out demons and did miracles and called "Lord, Lord", and yet.....He never knew them. I mean, if the Father cuts you off from the vine Jesus (who is the way to the Father) is that someone who has eternal life? I don't think so.

So I can see both possibilities from these verses.

This kind of verges more into the topic of OSAS (once saved always saved) rather than overcomers, so I don't want to diverge if undesired.

Trapped