A Wake Up Call - God is Speaking to Us

[awareness]

Originally Posted by bearbear

God is just and does not condemn the innocent (2 Thess 1:6). People who end up in hell are not innocent but are reaping what they have sown.

Ezekiel 18:20
The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

Also "Innocent" has to be from God's point of view. What the world views as innocent is perhaps different from what an eternal, all powerful, all knowing God considers "innocent" and only his point of view matters because he is the Judge.



The suffering in this world, including the suffering of the Jewish people is not a result of God's wrath, though God can allow it by simply lifting his hand of protection. Matthew 12:20 seems to suggest that God won't lift a finger to judge the world until the "Day of the Lord". I guess this kind of contradicts Cahn's warning of judgment happening before Jesus comes-- unless it also coincides with the Day of the Lord / Daniel's 70th week and the events described in Revelation. Or perhaps God views these events as warnings rather than judgment, (God chastises his children because he loves them, Hebrews 12:6).

Matthew 12:20
A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out, till he has brought justice through to victory.

I believe God is okay with allowing suffering because those who suffer will have their mourning made up for in eternity as was the case of Lazarus (Luke 16:14-31). However the rich man who enjoyed his life but ignored the poor suffered a horrible fate that could not be undone. Those who are first will be last and vice versa. The sermon on the mount also echoes this principle such as

Matthew 5:4
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.

Our current life is like a vapor or mist, we are here today and gone tomorrow (James 4:14). But because human experience is limited to the life we live in this world, we tend to overvalue our own life at the cost of our eternity, something that Jesus warned about a lot (Luke 9:60, Matthew 16:26). From the viewpoint of time, the only thing that matters is eternity and the decisions we make in this life that affect ours and other's eternity. Hence, the suffering that really matters in God's eyes, is the suffering that happens in eternity which trumps any suffering that happens while we are alive on this earth.

Matthew 16:26
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Take heart bro bearbear. Lots of minds greater than yours and mine have tried to tackle the problem of how a all powerful, all knowing, all loving, God can allow evil.

I remember Lee claiming that he could explain the purpose of God from the book of Genesis to the book of Revelation. That, for example, both had the tree of life and the serpent.

But what was missed, or untold by Lee, is that they both have an angry wrathful God. In fact, step back and look at the OT God, and the God in Revelation, and it's like the death of Jesus on the cross didn't count. God was angry and wrathful before the cross and angry and wrathful afterwards; like God said or thought, "I gave my son as a sacrifice for the sin of the world, to forgive them," but ... but, "oh hell, forget the cross, I'm just going back to being angry and wrathful."

And bearbear, you can throw Bible verses at it all day long, and twist your logic into a bag of pretzels, but you can't get around it.

In the end the problem is the book of Revelation. It just doesn't belong in the canon.

It causes crazies, like Lee and Cahn. And I think you, my brother, are at risk, if you keep struggling with trying to solve the impossible, even with Bible verses.

Unless you just admit:

Isa 45:6-7 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.