A Wake Up Call - God is Speaking to Us

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Nell

Awareness, you're talking about God like He isn't listening to you.

Oh He's listening and watching. And what He's saying about the book of Revelation is: "I never wrote any of it."

And also, "That Cahn guy is crazy. I do things according to Shemitah .... LoL ... rotflmao."

Ha

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Oh He's listening and watching. And what He's saying about the book of Revelation is: "I never wrote any of it."

And also, "That Cahn guy is crazy. I do things according to Shemitah .... LoL ... rotflmao."

Ha

Don't you want to leave John's vision of a new heaven and new earth in your special Bible? But, take your time answering the question. Stars are expected to form normally for at least a trillion years, but eventually the supply of gas needed for star formation will be exhausted. As existing stars run out of fuel and cease to shine, the universe will slowly and inexorably grow darker, one star at a time. At that point, John's vision could come in handy.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Don't you want to leave John's vision of a new heaven and new earth in your special Bible? But, take your time answering the question. Stars are expected to form normally for at least a trillion years, but eventually the supply of gas needed for star formation will be exhausted. As existing stars run out of fuel and cease to shine, the universe will slowly and inexorably grow darker, one star at a time. At that point, John's vision could come in handy.

Maybe you've got a point:

Rev_6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by awareness

Maybe you've got a point:

Rev_6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

I like to ask the Holy Spirit for understanding, for revelation and for Wisdom. He likes that too. And He doesn't like to be boxed in.

So.. for whatever it's worth...... I am going to blow your mind with what HE REVEALED to me...and back it with scriptures for those who STILL believe the Bible we have is GOD's WRITTEN WORD that is REVEALED to us ONLY by HIS SPIRIT.

And for your information DOH-DOH BIRD HAROLD, GOD DID WRITE THE BOOK OF REVELATION.

That is another topic for another time. I have read it over a dozen times and next to Hebrews, it is one of my favorite books. AND btw, for those who read it, we get a BLESSING. Rev 1:3
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Gotta have ears to hear what the SPIRIT SAYS.

As to Rev 6:13, there are several key phrases:
a) And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth

b) as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs,

c) she is shaken of a MIGHTY WIND.

A: Soon Joseph had another dream, and again he told his brothers about it. “Listen, I have had another dream,” he said. “The sun, moon, and eleven stars bowed low before me!” GEN 37:9


B: THE FIG TREE IS ISRAEL. The untimely figs being cast down from heaven are the OT saints.

C: The MIGHTY WIND is the HOLY SPIRIT
suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing MIGHTY WIND, and HE (it) filled all the house where they were sitting. (Acts 2:2) Holy spirit is not an IT. HE IS GOD THE SPIRIT.

Hope you are following the bouncing ball.

Those stars are the old testament saints OF THE 12 TRIBES of Israel returning to the earth to put on their Glorified bodies. In fact I believe they are the 144k Jews SEALED WITH THE SEAL OF GOD spoken of in Revelation 7.

The rapture has already taken place because in vs 9 of Rev 7

we read:
After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands

So the 144k figs come down from heaven and are sealed with The SEAL of GOD on their foreheads (vs 3) between vs 4-8, the tribes are listed and following the list, the great multitude which no man could number out of EVERY NATION are stading before the Throne and the Lamb Glorifying Him. These are those that came out of the rapture..


The church is not mentioned after Rev 4. Between Rev 5-19 the LORD is focuses on Israel. Then in Rev 19 the Lord JESUS returns WITH THE BRIDAL ARMY to fight for Israel against the nations that have come against her. And now Israel will see Yahshua truly has always been Messiah they were waiting for.

It is pretty clear to me that after the rapture, the 144k OT saints from the 12 tribes of ISRAEL are sent down from heaven by the POWER MIGHTY Holy Spirit of God.

hee haw !

Carol

[awareness]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

I like to ask the Holy Spirit for understanding, for revelation and for Wisdom. He likes that too. And He doesn't like to be boxed in.

So.. for whatever it's worth...... I am going to blow your mind with what HE REVEALED to me...and back it with scriptures for those who STILL believe the Bible we have is GOD's WRITTEN WORD that is REVEALED to us ONLY by HIS SPIRIT.

And for your information DOH-DOH BIRD HAROLD, GOD DID WRITE THE BOOK OF REVELATION.

Dearest Sister,

Of the four methods of interpreting the book of Revelation -- Futurist, Historicist, Preterist, and Idealist -- you being a self professed Rapture-centric Retard, are clearly having a absolute hoot of a time as a idealist futurist sort. while I, a Doh-Doh Bird, so claimed, clearly am a dud of the preterist sort.

And I don't know if you buy into Witness Lee's historical perspective, that the 7 churches represent the historical development of the church down thru the ages, if so you are also of a historical sort. That would mean you have three ways, against my one way.

As a note, the author of Revelation, a guy that calls himself John, was a preterist and futureist, cuz he was relating his writing to his times -- Rome & Nero -- and expecting God to intervene "soon," not, however, 2000 yrs later. So this guy John was wrong.

As tempted as I am to break your post down and respond part for part, I feel only to go into the verse I presented, Rev. 6:13.

You make a claim that, the "stars are the old testament saints OF THE 12 TRIBES of Israel."

However, when I search the whole Bible for the Greek word ἀστήρ (astēr) in every case but one it means the literal stars up in the sky at night, not old testament saints, as you claim.

And this guy John saying that stars fall to earth reveals that his book is not inspired by God. As God knows, and knew, as well as we today, that if even one star fell to earth, the earth, sun, and whole solar system, would be completely obliterated. And that would mean the end of John's make believe drama.

That means the book of Revelation is a forgery -- not from God -- using John's name, and borrowing imagery from OT prophets, to explain what was going on back in the author's day.

That's why we should look at the book of Revelation as a product of the imagination of a faker.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by awareness

You make a claim that, the "stars are the old testament saints OF THE 12 TRIBES of Israel."

However, when I search the whole Bible for the Greek word ἀστήρ (astēr) in every case but one it means the literal stars up in the sky at night, not old testament saints, as you claim.

And this guy John saying that stars fall to earth reveals that his book is not inspired by God. As God knows, and knew, as well as we today, that if even one star fell to earth, the earth, sun, and whole solar system, would be completely obliterated. And that would mean the end of John's make believe drama.

A,

You are really going off the reservation here. Of all the things that might create some doubt about the authenticity of John's Apocalypse, this isn't it.

While it may be true that no one can simply say that the stars are the OT saints of any kind, you also cannot just find that a particular word never was used as a metaphor anywhere else and declare it to be literal when written into book of metaphors. Especially when the literal meaning would be, as you point out, completely destructive to the remaining drama of the writing.

I think that one of your problems when you get into things like this is a kind of tunnel vision. You seem to have a goal in mind and are busy blindering-off the possibility of anything standing in the way of that, including the obviously contradictory positions contained within your own reasoning.

It places you squarely into the "not from God at all costs retard" camp. And I don't think you are a retard. And I bet you don't either.

I will confess that if the importance of Revelation is all the strange stuff that so many "stuck in the end times" kind of people come up with, I would tend to doubt its authenticity too.

So what does blood flowing through the valley as deep as a horse's bridle mean? A virtually every person on earth gathered to the Kidron Valley and slaughtered there? Some kind of bizarre flood through the valley visually altered by nuclear blast of some sort? (I've heard one like that.) Or that there will be a lot of dead people? A really large number of dead people.

And this is probably where the Preterists get their start. With the complete destruction of Jerusalem such that you couldn't recognize the previous existence of a city, coupled with the huge number of people who died, it is easy to see how that could be the source of such thinking. And they would assert that we are simply somewhere between the start and the finish now. And that gap is of uncertain length. And if 1 day is as a thousand years (metaphorically, not literally), then how long is it all? Are we near the end? Only a little way in?

But in any case, here we are.

I am convinced that most who think they have figured out much of the meaning of Revelation are the most deluded of us all. No matter which side they are on. But at some level, I can see both signs of something to come, and evidence that a lot is going on. Death, War, Famine, and the Gospel are still advancing throughout the earth. Don't need to wait for the "end times." That has been true since the beginning of this era.

Is Revelation "over the top"? What do we do with it? Maybe the answer is to be warned. And that is enough. It does not seem that we have much part in it other than as participants with parts based on our position with God.

And there is the real issue. Where are we with God? That is the determiner of our ultimate existence. Not the claimed understanding of the details of the warning. Now if the warning was at least partly to the Jews in Jerusalem, then it was important that some get out before the destruction in 70AD. But it seems to go so much beyond that.

And you really don't need to understand all of the picture you see before you to "get the picture." And the picture is that it really matters which side of the Christ issue you are on. Are you a true follower and believer. Or are you one who thinks little or nothing about Him. Or putting the following off until later.

Will there be a later for any of us? We don't know.

[awareness]

Ohio just said something that reminded me that I had to come back to this. That OBW has said some wrong things in response to me, that have to be corrected.

Originally Posted by OBW

You are really going off the reservation here. Of all the things that might create some doubt about the authenticity of John's Apocalypse, this isn't it.

Oh I agree that it's not checkmate evidence. But it is evidence that John's idea that the stars could fall to earth was taken not from God but from what was commonly thought back then. They didn't have telescopes. Ya can't blame 'em ... or John ... for believing what today is known to be a ridiculous notion. And we known for certain that the creator of the whole universe would know how ridiculous that idea was ... and wouldn't have written such a thing.

That conundrum, or cognitive dissonance of Bible inerrantists, has been solved, by saying John was speaking symbolically. That's why Carol could say: "THE FIG TREE IS ISRAEL. The untimely figs [stars] being cast down from heaven are the OT saints."

Originally Posted by OBW

While it may be true that no one can simply say that the stars are the OT saints of any kind, you also cannot just find that a particular word never was used as a metaphor anywhere else and declare it to be literal when written into book of metaphors. Especially when the literal meaning would be, as you point out, completely destructive to the remaining drama of the writing.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by OBW

It places you squarely into the "not from God at all costs retard" camp. And I don't think you are a retard. And I bet you don't either.

Well I don't belong to their camp. Not since Witness Lee. But I am a retard. I'm human. Not divine.

Originally Posted by OBW

I will confess that if the importance of Revelation is all the strange stuff that so many "stuck in the end times" kind of people come up with, I would tend to doubt its authenticity too.

Now you see why I say that Rev. would be okay for 1st century Christian sort of reading, but doesn't belong in the canon. More often than not the fruit of the book is craziness.

Originally Posted by OBW

And this is probably where the Preterists get their start. With the complete destruction of Jerusalem such that you couldn't recognize the previous existence of a city, coupled with the huge number of people who died, it is easy to see how that could be the source of such thinking. And they would assert that we are simply somewhere between the start and the finish now. And that gap is of uncertain length. And if 1 day is as a thousand years (metaphorically, not literally), then how long is it all? Are we near the end? Only a little way in?

The *time thing* is a hard question. But when John opens the book with "things which must shortly come to pass," I don't think he meant 2000 yrs, or more, was shortly.

Originally Posted by OBW

I am convinced that most who think they have figured out much of the meaning of Revelation are the most deluded of us all.

Again, the book makes for crazy ... and doesn't belong in our Bible.

Originally Posted by OBW

Is Revelation "over the top"? What do we do with it? Maybe the answer is to be warned. And that is enough.

So just consider my ranting about Rev. as a warning.

Originally Posted by OBW

And there is the real issue. Where are we with God? That is the determiner of our ultimate existence.
. . . And you really don't need to understand all of the picture you see before you to "get the picture." And the picture is that it really matters which side of the Christ issue you are on. Are you a true follower and believer. Or are you one who thinks little or nothing about Him. Or putting the following off until later.

Yes. Not whether or not we accept Rev.

[bearbear]

Originally Posted by awareness

Dearest Sister,
And I don't know if you buy into Witness Lee's historical perspective, that the 7 churches represent the historical development of the church down thru the ages, if so you are also of a historical sort. That would mean you have three ways, against my one way.

The letter to the seven churches contain spiritual principles that can be applied to anyone at any time. In the same way we draw spiritual principles from Paul's epistles which were written to specific churches during the first century, there are timeless principles to be drawn from the seven letters, most which are warnings.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

And this guy John saying that stars fall to earth reveals that his book is not inspired by God. As God knows, and knew, as well as we today, that if even one star fell to earth, the earth, sun, and whole solar system, would be completely obliterated. And that would mean the end of John's make believe drama.

That means the book of Revelation is a forgery -- not from God -- using John's name, and borrowing imagery from OT prophets, to explain what was going on back in the author's day.

That's BS.

Stars falling can be "falling stars," and we all know they can be meteors or asteroids and not real "stars."

As they say on ESPN, "c'mon man!"

[Nell]

Originally Posted by awareness

Oh He's listening and watching. And what He's saying about the book of Revelation is: "I never wrote any of it."

Ha

Awareness---this is not good. Maybe you think you're being "cute", but you're not. Lots of people are reading your posts and you've put yourself in the position of possibly causing God's children to stumble. You don't want that millstone around your neck. (Matt. 18:6)

Matthew 12:36 I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak,

Why don't you give us a testimony of your faith? Your love for the Father, your acceptance of Jesus as your Savior, and your belief that the Bible is God's word...all of it? This will help all of us, because at this point, I don't know where you stand.

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Nell

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Nell

Awareness---this is not good. Maybe you think you're being "cute", but you're not. Lots of people are reading your posts and you've put yourself in the position of possibly causing God's children to stumble. You don't want that millstone around your neck. (Matt. 18:6)

Matthew 12:36 I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak,

Why don't you give us a testimony of your faith? Your love for the Father, your acceptance of Jesus as your Savior, and your belief that the Bible is God's word...all of it? This will help all of us, because at this point, I don't know where you stand.

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Nell

Does awareness' faith need to follow what you believe his faith should be? Awareness is warning you, "don't follow Cahn". Awareness is a prophet who is steeped in scripture. Just because he is concerned about the book Revelation should not be a reflection of his lack of faith but more a reflection of his concern with those who would be distracted by the book since it may not have been written by John and should not be included in the canon and accepted blindly. Remember you may very well have your "words" supporting "Cahn" become accountable to God as well if every word we speak is being monitored by God. Maybe God is perusing these forums, if so, I wish He would make an entry just to let us know. Maybe He has, as a "Guest" (what's his IP). Or maybe you are the Voice of God?

I don't pretend to know God in the way you do. Job 11:7-9 Can you find out the deep things of God? Can you find the limit of the Almighty? It is higher than heaven--what can you do? Deeper than Sheol---what can you know? Its measure is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Dave

Does awareness' faith need to follow what you believe his faith should be?

No. We all need to follow what the BIBLE says regarding our faith.

Originally Posted by Dave

Awareness is warning you, "don't follow Cahn".

Thank you. I appreciate the warning from all, and I am warned. I believe this is healthy. I'm continuing to research.

Originally Posted by Dave

Awareness is a prophet who is steeped in scripture. Just because he is concerned about the book Revelation should not be a reflection of his lack of faith but more a reflection of his concern with those who would be distracted by the book since it may not have been written by John and should not be included in the canon and accepted blindly.

Awareness has gone far beyond expressing his "concern" about the book of Revelation. If you all are going to judge me by my words, can we not apply the same standard to all? I'm not questioning Awareness' faith as much as I'm asking for a clarification of what it is. I believe this is scriptural.

What you call "accept blindly" I call "accept by faith."

I will be happy to provide my profession of faith if you all would care to read it.

Originally Posted by Dave

Remember you may very well have your "words" supporting "Cahn" become accountable to God as well if every word we speak is being monitored by God.

No "maybe" to it. My words are accountable.

I've tried to present that my "support" for Cahn is not for Cahn himself but for his message...to the extent that it is biblical.

Maybe I haven't done a good job of making that point, because it keeps being coming back at me as blindly supporting Cahn. That is not the case. I apologize that I cannot present this fact in a clear way that you all would stop accusing me of something that I do not believe.

At least I've actually read Cahn. Perhaps you folks are blindly rejecting his message without having read it. Is that possible?

Originally Posted by Dave

Maybe God is perusing these forums, if so, I wish He would make an entry just to let us know. Maybe He has, as a "Guest" (what's his IP). Or maybe you are the Voice of God?

I understand that this is your mockery of me. Does God speak through His people or not? Is God speaking in the rantings of Awareness? After all that Awareness has posted against a book of the Bible, I don't believe it's out of line to request a testimony of faith.

It was a request which was made with respect.

Nell

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Nell

No. We all need to follow what the BIBLE says regarding our faith.

Thank you. I appreciate the warning from all, and I am warned. I believe this is healthy. I'm continuing to research.

Awareness has gone far beyond expressing his "concern" about the book of Revelation. If you all are going to judge me by my words, can we not apply the same standard to all? I'm not questioning Awareness' faith as much as I'm asking for a clarification of what it is. I believe this is scriptural.

What you call "accept blindly" I call "accept by faith."

I will be happy to provide my profession of faith if you all would care to read it.

No "maybe" to it. My words are accountable.

I've tried to present that my "support" for Cahn is not for Cahn himself but for his message...to the extent that it is biblical.

Maybe I haven't done a good job of making that point, because it keeps being coming back at me as blindly supporting Cahn. That is not the case. I apologize that I cannot present this fact in a clear way that you all would stop accusing me of something that I do not believe.

At least I've actually read Cahn. Perhaps you folks are blindly rejecting his message without having read it. Is that possible?

I understand that this is your mockery of me. Does God speak through His people or not? Is God speaking in the rantings of Awareness? After all that Awareness has posted against a book of the Bible, I don't believe it's out of line to request a testimony of faith.
It was a request which was made with respect.
Nell

Nell
I respect what you have to say and your arguments are often well made and you sound reasonable. My concern is that we start creating a litmus test regarding our posts by challenging what we each believe whether it is for awareness, myself or others. Were not we all followers of WL? We are on this forum sharing our experiences and concerns as a result of what we discovered.

I never intended to mock you but I was just making a point and you make them all the time. Of course He speaks through people but we had that problem with WL...we all thought he was God's Oracle----we followed him and where did that lead us. I guess that is my point...I believe it is good to challenge some things because we need to tread carefully lest we fall into the same trap again. Let's listen to awareness because he was a true believer of WL who tests the scriptures (I Thess 5:21 ... test everything Acts 17:11 examine scriptures every day to see if they are true) awareness is testing everyday and so are you.

[bearbear]

I feel like I just witnessed Matthew 7:6 re: what CMW shared.

"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

Nevertheless thanks for sharing CMW, that was pretty awesome and your revelations are always welcome with me.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Dave

Nell
I respect what you have to say and your arguments are often well made and you sound reasonable. My concern is that we start creating a litmus test regarding our posts by challenging what we each believe whether it is for awareness, myself or others. Were not we all followers of WL? We are on this forum sharing our experiences and concerns as a result of what we discovered.

Dave,
I understand what you're saying. However, I believe there is a baseline for Christians, of which first is the infallibility of the Bible.

We were followers of WL. Not anymore. No more "oracles". I won't accept Awareness as an "oracle" either. He gets to have an opinion, but his rantings are not authoritative and need to be challenged.

Originally Posted by Dave

I never intended to mock you but I was just making a point and you make them all the time. Of course He speaks through people but we had that problem with WL...we all thought he was God's Oracle----we followed him and where did that lead us. I guess that is my point...I believe it is good to challenge some things because we need to tread carefully lest we fall into the same trap again. Let's listen to awareness because he was a true believer of WL who tests the scriptures (I Thess 5:21 ... test everything Acts 17:11 examine scriptures every day to see if they are true) awareness is testing everyday and so are you.

When someone challenges the authority of the Bible, they leave themselves open to challenges at the most fundamental level.

Witness Lee tossed out the book of James. If I'm not mistaken, he tossed out Psalms too. No one challenged him. We know how that went. When Awareness falls into this same trap, it's time to blow the whistle. The fact is, the Bible was canonized. It's a done deal.

If I said the things Awareness has said, I would hope that someone would challenge me by asking for a testimony of my faith.

Honestly, my testimony of God's love for me and saving me eternally, as well as rescuing me from the Local Church is my greatest joy. I'm grateful and happy to sing His praises to the world. When I was really young, I sang a little song with my Bible School class. The words were: "Into my heart...into my heart...come into my heart Lord Jesus..." I had sung that song many times, but one day, He did it. He accepted MY invitation. I invited Him in, and in He came.

Pretty awesome, huh? It's my favorite story. I love it. The God of the universe responded when a little bitty kid invited Him into her heart. What a God we have!


Nell

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Nell

When I was really young, I sang a little song with my Bible School class. The words were: "Into my heart...into my heart...come into my heart Lord Jesus..." I had sung that song many times, but one day, He did it. He accepted MY invitation. I invited Him in, and in He came.

Pretty awesome, huh? It's my favorite story. I love it. The God of the universe responded when a little bitty kid invited Him into her heart. What a God we have!

Thanks, Nell.

I think our first experience of God may always be our best.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Nell

Dave,
I understand what you're saying. However, I believe there is a baseline for Christians, of which first is the infallibility of the Bible.
Nell

Which Bible? You know that the original manuscripts were written in Greek? The KJV is not the original Bible. Neither are the following versions: NSRV; NET; RSV; EV; etc. Are each one of them infallible? Some of them leave out verses from the KJV because they discovered that they were not in older manuscripts e.g. 1 John 5:7-8. These verses are well known to have been inserted by scribes. So, which Bible is infallible? We don't have any original manuscripts so what we have are Bibles which have been translated from copies of copies of copies etc. I don't disagree with you I just want to know which Bible is infallible from your perspective.

Originally Posted by Nell

We were followers of WL. Not anymore. No more "oracles". I won't accept Awareness as an "oracle" either. He gets to have an opinion, but his rantings are not authoritative and need to be challenged.
Nell

Can't we just call awareness a "disturbed oracle"? In that way he keeps his "Oracle robe" which I understand he wears quite frequently.

BTW Nell, thanks for responding and I do appreciate your perspective!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Nell

It was a request which was made with respect.

Nell

And it deserves a respectful answer. Which I plan on presenting when I get the time.

Thanks Nell.

And OBiWan deserves a response too.

Thanks to him as well.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Nell

Awareness---this is not good. Maybe you think you're being "cute", but you're not. Lots of people are reading your posts and you've put yourself in the position of possibly causing God's children to stumble. You don't want that millstone around your neck. (Matt. 18:6)

Thanks for the warning about the millstone. It certainly doesn't sound pleasant.

Originally Posted by Nell

Why don't you give us a testimony of your faith? Your love for the Father, your acceptance of Jesus as your Savior, and your belief that the Bible is God's word...all of it? This will help all of us, because at this point, I don't know where you stand.

First of all I'm not the first to question the authenticity of Revelation. It goes back to the early days of Christianity. Just google "church fathers objection to revelation," and you'll learn a lot.

I'm also not the first to claim that it's a forgery. Dionysius the Bishop of Alexandria (c. 260 AD) claimed it to be a forgery. And Eusebius recorded others earlier had rejected Revelation, and some even claimed to know the guy who forged the book. A heretic by the name of Cerinthus.

And the faith of those that rejected Rev. wasn't ever questioned. So accepting or rejecting the book of Rev. is not an essential matter of the Christian faith. Either way does not determine the status of a Christian.

And to round out my response: My faith is in God, I'm in need of the salvation of Jesus, and the Bible is a very human book to me.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Nell

However, I believe there is a baseline for Christians, of which first is the infallibility of the Bible.

Not so. Need I remind you that the early Christians had no New Testament. The first to them was the moving of the Holy Spirit ... at least according to the NT records that eventually came along.

Originally Posted by Nell

I won't accept Awareness as an "oracle" either.

I didn't know I was even in the running. But thanks for the compliment. Do I still get to keep the robe, and funny hat?

[Nell]

Originally Posted by awareness

I didn't know I was even in the running. But thanks for the compliment. Do I still get to keep the robe, and funny hat?

Sure. It's almost Halloween.

Nell

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Oh He's listening and watching. And what He's saying about the book of Revelation is: "I never wrote any of it."

Of course, God did not write the book of Revelation, he told John to write, "to write what you have seen." (1.19)

awareness is just playing with you Nell. He says outlandish things just to tease the girls, and get a few laughs.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Of course, God did not write the book of Revelation, he told John to write, "to write what you have seen." (1.19)

awareness is just playing with you Nell. He says outlandish things just to tease the girls, and get a few laughs.

My request stands.

Nell

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Of course, God did not write the book of Revelation, he told John to write, "to write what you have seen." (1.19)

awareness is just playing with you Nell. He says outlandish things just to tease the girls, and get a few laughs.

It is true. Both CMW and I are having a hoot of a time. For different reasons we're not worried about God's judgment.