A Wake Up Call - God is Speaking to Us

[Dave]

Originally Posted by bearbear

This question coincides with a great debate between Calvinists and Arminians.

Limited atonement view:
Jesus just died only for his elect. God only loved the ones he chose and saved.

Unlimited atonement view:
God loves everyone and Jesus died for everyone. It's up to others to accept his gift with their free will as God cannot force himself on them. Unfortunately few do.

In both cases the majority who do not accept Jesus are damned. Yet Jesus' sacrifice still makes a difference because the ones who are saved from God's wrath would have never stood a chance without it. I find support in scripture for both views, and one may not necessarily rule out the other in the logic that God operates in which may be beyond our own time-based, finite minds.

Ephesians 2:1-6

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Jesus also considered those who were destined to hell as "dead" (Luke 9:60) and he told the Sadducees that God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the God of the living and not the dead. Ultimately those who make it are the ones who matter, and the ones who don't, don't have any share in the next age and hence God does view them as if they were 'dead'. If it were not for Jesus there would be no humans asides from Jesus 'alive' by God's definition and eternal viewpoint as everyone would have been an deserving object of his wrath.

Hence, anything God does for us, is unmerited, undeserved; it is *grace*. If God were simply "fair" by his own definition, we'd all be screwed. But because God is loving and merciful we received grace through Jesus Christ.

------There is a considerable number of scriptures which contradict the conclusions that you may be drawing from Ephesians. In addition, the verses you quote in Ephesians 2 contradicts 1 Corinth 15. Furthermore, the first two verses listed below in 1 Peter show that God is merciful even to those who died and had rejected him.
1 Peter 3:18-19 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits IN PRISON who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently
1 Peter 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those WHO ARE NOW DEAD
----- Furthermore, there is ample evidence that God of the NT is merciful and forgiving and will not allow any person to be lost… here is just a sample of the scriptures which portray a loving God…
Matthew 18:14 In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that ANY of these little ones should be lost.
Luke 3:6 And ALL mankind will see God’s salvation.
John 12:32 when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men to myself.
John 12:47 “As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the WORLD, but to SAVE IT.
John 17:2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to ALL those you have given him.
John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save THE WORLD through him.
Romans 5:18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for ALL men.
Romans 8:32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us ALL—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?
Romans 8:38-39 nor ANYTHING else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 11:32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them ALL.
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ ALL will be made alive.
2 Corinthians 5:18-19 God was reconciling THE WORLD to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them.
Ephesians 1:9-10 to bring ALL things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
Philippians 2:9-10 at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Colossians 1:19-20 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself ALL things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.
1 Timothy 2:3-4 who gave himself as a ransom for ALL men
1 Timothy 4:9-10 who is the Savior of ALL men
-----It is also interesting to note that God is not judging the world as is commonly thought but the saints….
1 Cor 6:2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? ….verse 3…Do you not know that we are to judge Angels?