jigsaw44
10-05-2020, 03:32 AM
This thread was created because I wanted ask about the emptiness and degradation of human relations in the local churches. After reading tons of posts from tons of threads I just came to the realization that it does not seem that the basics of grace, sincerity on friendship and bonds with fellow men is present in the local churches.
Don't get me wrong people in the local churches are seemingly gung ho and cheerful, loving, caring, and sweet towards one another but as soon as someone seems "tainted" or is deteriorating in "building material", or go against anything LC standard/customs- things go south.
1.Now moving on to the purpose of my post I first to address basic freedoms and will in the LC. The first topic of this will be freedom of pursuing love/marriage. To give an example, here is a quote/post from a member on here- .
"I remember the young sister who shepherded me into the LC in college. She was completely broken hearted because the boy she was in love with she could not marry. She was put together with a man who also just came out of the FTT. I can remember her crying with me. It was so sad. The turn around was so quick....seems like a week later she was engaged to this man I had never heard of and she acted happy about it. But looking back I am sure she was separated from her love because he wasn't in the church life. She and at least 2 other sisters I watched being married off in the same way."
Response- How is this even a thing and not even resisted upon in any way? How does one allow their daughter to be married off like cattle with no will of her own. For a girl to be dreaded in tears because she cant even control who she marries. I have read other post about concerned parents on here, asking for advice for the kids being dupped into going to FTT.
Im just imaging the idea of ripping someone from their families and sending them to a brainwashing institution and making them a slave for the interest of the LC is just terrible. I would be enraged if I had a daughter pour down in tears telling me something like this. How do LC members just watch this happen? Don't even get me started in ex LC member testimonies and their stories of abusive marriages and domestic violence being pushed aside and forcing the victim to stay together and "repent. F*** that s**t, you just let a abuser sit around and be scot free and blame the victim?
1 Corinthians 13:4-7
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
- I don't see that form of love in these practices and customs at all. Why is this maintained in America of all places? I understand Saudi Arabia, I mean people have no choice but to accept their arranged marriages as their customs are protected, and supported by government.
2. "Friends in the LC. First of all what the heck do people mean when they say they are told they cant have friends in the Local Churches? What do you even consider all the time you spent together as? Probably came from "eMpErOR" Lee. if it did, how do you let some man dictate your life to such an extreme point of a desolate and tragic lifestyle?
- I have saw posts of falling out of ex lc members whether it was a disagreement with doctrine/teachings, rough times in life that required time off from LC, or just personal issues that conflicted with LC time. This led to them being ostracized, and being outcaste completely. I'm talking people have been in these churches for years and spent so much time and joyful memories together then all of a sudden vanished because of someone entering a low point in life or a personal circumstance they must come to peace with.
Here is an example from another post on here- "When we were shunned, it was hardcore. A person very dear to me stopped speaking to me and pretended it was about her personal crisis ( loss of a loved one). Then another dear one gave us the same cold shoulder, unrelated to grief. We were played. For a long time I continued to reach out to them, not knowing the truth because they never told me the truth. I thought it was some offense of my doing. Folks I believed to be dear friends cut off communication with us without explaining why. Just ghosted us, me and my little kids. My kids loved these women so much because these LCers love bombed them too. Big time. And it probably didn't help that my husbands' work keeps us in localities so far removed from any real family members.
So these people were our surrogate family. The one older lady we quite considered to be grandma. My kids would slip and call her Grandma occasionally. She was my kids' medical emergency contact number, in lieu of us the parents. I mean, I was totally deceived into thinking their care and fellowship was real. But it was all lies. The love is only for the people devoted to Lee and ministry. So what I really hope for is to warn all unsuspecting believers away from this wicked Local Lee Church and the propagation of deception going on there."
Response- Looking all this, what the heck is the relationship between anyone in the LC. Lots of people have marriages they never wish to enter, people are taught to not have friends they can bond and have loyalty to. Its as if their humanity is destroyed, for what? The people they have home meetings with and go to Sunday meetings- what do you see those people as? Am I the only one who just sees this dismal situation as bizarre?
That is just scummy of how you can treat someone like that just because they departure from the local churches. The heck is wrong with people sometimes. How can you allow yourself to forgo what it means to be human . Even God is intimate and loving with his people, just look at the first portion of Jeremiah, he pleaded with his people to stay with him and not forsake him. He didn't just ditch them when they fell to a low point. He expressed his concerns and desires to remain with his people.
When LC people read the story of Johnathan and David, do they ever consider if they have a genuine friendship such as that. To be someone's actual friend- being there in their lowest point in life and not abandoning them, helping them while costing you convenience and even to some degree of safety/comfort. To put the interest of yourself aside in order to uplift the burdens of the one you care for. Am I crazy or are committed LC loyalist just empty vases, being forbidden to be filled with any sort of human affection.
Ecclesiastes 4:9-12
9 Two are better than one,
because they have a good return for their labor:
10 If either of them falls down,
one can help the other up.
But pity anyone who falls
and has no one to help them up.
11 Also, if two lie down together, they will keep warm.
But how can one keep warm alone?
12 Though one may be overpowered,
two can defend themselves.
A cord of three strands is not quickly broken.
3. Reflection/conclusion- Am I thinking to deeply or my thoughts reflective of the established tradition of human relation in the LC. I'm sure there are outliers and there are people who will generally always be there for another even if they were to fall off from the LC.
Im assuming these behaviors all come from "eMpErOr" lee. If so then I am astonished how one man can dominate human behavior even after his death (well of course the despots at Anaheim preserve his teachings). Did witness lee truly want to create a church like this? Why, just why...... Nothing makes sense, everything with this church just seems so fake. Is anything genuine, it seems the gospel itself is second to witness lee doctrine. How does something like this preserve itself in the "nAmE" of Christianity? This is supposedly the true church? No other church has the truth or ground of the local churches? Oh really? Cause you spent so much time with other churches right? You somehow speak on experience you have never had or touched before right? You make judgment and speak on something you really have no knowledge of.
Everything seems fake from the recruitment and love bombing of college kids, half a** marriages, destruction/separation of family members outside the LC, "cArE" of one another and calling each other "bRoThEr" and "sIsTeR". Why does it have to be this way? Would it really hurt them if they departed the baggage of the teachings of witness lee?
Bouns Question- What would the LC be like if Watchman Nee lived just as long as Witness Lee? Would it still be the same or similar? Would Lee ever try to overpower Nee authority and influence knowing the power hungry man he is or even he has his limits to who he crosses. Would Lee doctrine be relevant?
Don't get me wrong people in the local churches are seemingly gung ho and cheerful, loving, caring, and sweet towards one another but as soon as someone seems "tainted" or is deteriorating in "building material", or go against anything LC standard/customs- things go south.
1.Now moving on to the purpose of my post I first to address basic freedoms and will in the LC. The first topic of this will be freedom of pursuing love/marriage. To give an example, here is a quote/post from a member on here- .
"I remember the young sister who shepherded me into the LC in college. She was completely broken hearted because the boy she was in love with she could not marry. She was put together with a man who also just came out of the FTT. I can remember her crying with me. It was so sad. The turn around was so quick....seems like a week later she was engaged to this man I had never heard of and she acted happy about it. But looking back I am sure she was separated from her love because he wasn't in the church life. She and at least 2 other sisters I watched being married off in the same way."
Response- How is this even a thing and not even resisted upon in any way? How does one allow their daughter to be married off like cattle with no will of her own. For a girl to be dreaded in tears because she cant even control who she marries. I have read other post about concerned parents on here, asking for advice for the kids being dupped into going to FTT.
Im just imaging the idea of ripping someone from their families and sending them to a brainwashing institution and making them a slave for the interest of the LC is just terrible. I would be enraged if I had a daughter pour down in tears telling me something like this. How do LC members just watch this happen? Don't even get me started in ex LC member testimonies and their stories of abusive marriages and domestic violence being pushed aside and forcing the victim to stay together and "repent. F*** that s**t, you just let a abuser sit around and be scot free and blame the victim?
1 Corinthians 13:4-7
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
- I don't see that form of love in these practices and customs at all. Why is this maintained in America of all places? I understand Saudi Arabia, I mean people have no choice but to accept their arranged marriages as their customs are protected, and supported by government.
2. "Friends in the LC. First of all what the heck do people mean when they say they are told they cant have friends in the Local Churches? What do you even consider all the time you spent together as? Probably came from "eMpErOR" Lee. if it did, how do you let some man dictate your life to such an extreme point of a desolate and tragic lifestyle?
- I have saw posts of falling out of ex lc members whether it was a disagreement with doctrine/teachings, rough times in life that required time off from LC, or just personal issues that conflicted with LC time. This led to them being ostracized, and being outcaste completely. I'm talking people have been in these churches for years and spent so much time and joyful memories together then all of a sudden vanished because of someone entering a low point in life or a personal circumstance they must come to peace with.
Here is an example from another post on here- "When we were shunned, it was hardcore. A person very dear to me stopped speaking to me and pretended it was about her personal crisis ( loss of a loved one). Then another dear one gave us the same cold shoulder, unrelated to grief. We were played. For a long time I continued to reach out to them, not knowing the truth because they never told me the truth. I thought it was some offense of my doing. Folks I believed to be dear friends cut off communication with us without explaining why. Just ghosted us, me and my little kids. My kids loved these women so much because these LCers love bombed them too. Big time. And it probably didn't help that my husbands' work keeps us in localities so far removed from any real family members.
So these people were our surrogate family. The one older lady we quite considered to be grandma. My kids would slip and call her Grandma occasionally. She was my kids' medical emergency contact number, in lieu of us the parents. I mean, I was totally deceived into thinking their care and fellowship was real. But it was all lies. The love is only for the people devoted to Lee and ministry. So what I really hope for is to warn all unsuspecting believers away from this wicked Local Lee Church and the propagation of deception going on there."
Response- Looking all this, what the heck is the relationship between anyone in the LC. Lots of people have marriages they never wish to enter, people are taught to not have friends they can bond and have loyalty to. Its as if their humanity is destroyed, for what? The people they have home meetings with and go to Sunday meetings- what do you see those people as? Am I the only one who just sees this dismal situation as bizarre?
That is just scummy of how you can treat someone like that just because they departure from the local churches. The heck is wrong with people sometimes. How can you allow yourself to forgo what it means to be human . Even God is intimate and loving with his people, just look at the first portion of Jeremiah, he pleaded with his people to stay with him and not forsake him. He didn't just ditch them when they fell to a low point. He expressed his concerns and desires to remain with his people.
When LC people read the story of Johnathan and David, do they ever consider if they have a genuine friendship such as that. To be someone's actual friend- being there in their lowest point in life and not abandoning them, helping them while costing you convenience and even to some degree of safety/comfort. To put the interest of yourself aside in order to uplift the burdens of the one you care for. Am I crazy or are committed LC loyalist just empty vases, being forbidden to be filled with any sort of human affection.
Ecclesiastes 4:9-12
9 Two are better than one,
because they have a good return for their labor:
10 If either of them falls down,
one can help the other up.
But pity anyone who falls
and has no one to help them up.
11 Also, if two lie down together, they will keep warm.
But how can one keep warm alone?
12 Though one may be overpowered,
two can defend themselves.
A cord of three strands is not quickly broken.
3. Reflection/conclusion- Am I thinking to deeply or my thoughts reflective of the established tradition of human relation in the LC. I'm sure there are outliers and there are people who will generally always be there for another even if they were to fall off from the LC.
Im assuming these behaviors all come from "eMpErOr" lee. If so then I am astonished how one man can dominate human behavior even after his death (well of course the despots at Anaheim preserve his teachings). Did witness lee truly want to create a church like this? Why, just why...... Nothing makes sense, everything with this church just seems so fake. Is anything genuine, it seems the gospel itself is second to witness lee doctrine. How does something like this preserve itself in the "nAmE" of Christianity? This is supposedly the true church? No other church has the truth or ground of the local churches? Oh really? Cause you spent so much time with other churches right? You somehow speak on experience you have never had or touched before right? You make judgment and speak on something you really have no knowledge of.
Everything seems fake from the recruitment and love bombing of college kids, half a** marriages, destruction/separation of family members outside the LC, "cArE" of one another and calling each other "bRoThEr" and "sIsTeR". Why does it have to be this way? Would it really hurt them if they departed the baggage of the teachings of witness lee?
Bouns Question- What would the LC be like if Watchman Nee lived just as long as Witness Lee? Would it still be the same or similar? Would Lee ever try to overpower Nee authority and influence knowing the power hungry man he is or even he has his limits to who he crosses. Would Lee doctrine be relevant?