Is there a compensation structure for positions in the LC?

[River]

Does anyone know how serving ones, responsible brothers, elders, co-workers, and all the people that fill various positions (I don't know all the titles) in the LC are compensated for their time and the jobs that they do? I have been lectured to by a current member about how bad all denominations are outside the LC. The claim is that other so-called churches/divisions/denominations are prostitutes because they take a name other than the church in the city, and they pay the pastor and most everyone that works there. Their claims are that no one is hired or paid in the LC. Is this true? They also say that only trainees and full-timers receive a small amount of money to meet their basic needs, but they are still not being "paid."

This person brought the topic up even though I always try to avoid conversations that relate in any way to WL or the LC with them. I am wondering, too, what are all the positions within this organization? How does one gain these positions? An elder was recently removed from their LC, so I know the elders can get removed/kicked out. It seems they do get "fired" even though they claim that they do not hire people.

[Zezima]

You can look up tax information on any non-profit in the USA. LSM’s EIN is EIN: 23-7031637. You can look year by year at their returns.

Attached are some of the salaries of various people employed by LSM from their 2019 form 990.

LSM also reported 100 million dollars in assets as well.

Here’s a link to that form if you’re interested.

All this is public information.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by River

Does anyone know how serving ones, responsible brothers, elders, co-workers, and all the people that fill various positions (I don't know all the titles) in the LC are compensated for their time and the jobs that they do? I have been lectured to by a current member about how bad all denominations are outside the LC. The claim is that other so-called churches/divisions/denominations are prostitutes because they take a name other than the church in the city, and they pay the pastor and most everyone that works there. Their claims are that no one is hired or paid in the LC. Is this true? They also say that only trainees and full-timers receive a small amount of money to meet their basic needs, but they are still not being "paid."

This person brought the topic up even though I always try to avoid conversations that relate in any way to WL or the LC with them. I am wondering, too, what are all the positions within this organization? How does one gain these positions? An elder was recently removed from their LC, so I know the elders can get removed/kicked out. It seems they do get "fired" even though they claim that they do not hire people.

The LC “spiritualizes” all these matters such as titles of workers, salaries, employment, hierarchical structures, etc. E.g. the title “pastors” in their system is evil, worse than adultery, but by renaming them “full-timers” or “co-workers” makes them sound so “spiritual.” Their basic thinking is that everything in Christianity is wrong, even the suffix “-ianity” following Christ, but everything in their system is great, new and improved, and “recovered.”

Trying to understand these obfuscations is difficult at best. They will tell you with straight face that there is no hierarchy in the body of Christ, and that the elders are the highest authority in every church, yet some bureaucrat in Anaheim will fire an elder, and all these contradictions will make perfect sense to the rank and file.

[Paul Vusik]

What you get with the LSM Corp is just a tip of the iceberg. Most local churches fall under the 501c3 exemptions, and it’s not just them but almost all churches and so called religious institutions. For these, you will never get the true financial statements and transparency! It’s a very useful loophole in the system to where almost nobody can have full access too, or see where the money is coming from or going. It’s is very rare that an organization would reveal their full financial records, bank transactions and such, unless it’s subpena by the courts. A cooperation would have to only disclose the income of their corporate officers, and gross for all other subcontractors and such, and provide gross total payroll for the year. Since all W2 employees are a private citizens, their income is only disclosed to IRS and not a public information (unless public tax money are being used). A lot of the officers could also be associated with other forms of corps and LLCs that are under the umbrella of a big corporation, and you would never know what they are getting paid for they’re services.

I will attached an image of the puzzle that’s LSM, and their officers. They are also associated with other entities, that are not 501c3. It’s a very difficult puzzle to put together, and I don’t think we will never know all about it. But it’s a visual that can help to see the web that’s is built there, and it can be manipulated as much as they would like. It doesn’t even include anything or any entity’s from outside of the USA , where you will never have access to.

[gr8ful]

Originally Posted by River

Does anyone know how serving ones, responsible brothers, elders, co-workers, and all the people that fill various positions (I don't know all the titles) in the LC are compensated for their time and the jobs that they do? ... Their claims are that no one is hired or paid in the LC. Is this true? They also say that only trainees and full-timers receive a small amount of money to meet their basic needs, but they are still not being "paid."

Years ago, I was a trainee and a full-time serving one at LSM.

As a trainee, I received a monthly stipend (enough to cover one meal a week outside the training center and personal sundries; everything else was taken care of by the training and my sending locality -- church -- paid the training for my attendance) but it was not "a salary," officially, but a "fellowship" or donation. This was for tax purposes, of course, but really had the sense that one who is serving is trusting God for their needs. In practice, the money was stable.

As a full-time serving one, my sponsoring church asked my needs and gave me a monthly stipend that covered basics, like housing, food, clothing. It was not anywhere near "minimum wage" if calculated as a salary, and I even had to have a co-signer sign for me to be able to rent an old, small apartment that someone at a minimum wage job would have qualified for without outside help. It was not for the money that any of the low-level serving ones served.

However, at one point I discussed the need of returning to get a job because of some life situations. I was offered a standard salary as a W-2 worker to encourage me to stay in a service capacity. It was a "last resort" allowance, and the leader who offered the salary explained that while we strive to trust the Lord for our needs, sometimes we're not able to have that level of faith and these arrangements can be made. The amount offered was half what I was offered in private business, but it was higher than minimum wage.

So, anyway, in my experience, there was a good-faith attempt to hold to the principle of serving by faith, but it wasn't a hard-fast rule. People serving could depend on a certain income as much as an employee at a private business could (that is, the company could always go bankrupt, so getting a paycheck really was a matter of God's provision, etc., etc.).

At the higher levels? No idea. A deep-dive in to the financial books would need to be conducted, or someone at that level would need to be transparent and come forward with that information.

[aron]

Originally Posted by gr8ful

However, at one point ... I was offered a standard salary as a W-2 worker to encourage me to stay in a service capacity. It was a "last resort" allowance, ...The amount offered was half what I was offered in private business, but it was higher than minimum wage.

In the LC, such 'workers' are supposedly building up the Body of Christ, and many of them genuinely do serve the spiritual needs of others. But the bottom line is that in the LC you exist to build up the Guanxi Network. If you look at the list of salaried employees, James Lee makes $111,500 to run the print shop. I daresay he's at the center of the network. I know of Blendeds who get their children on the LSM payroll.

Everyone else is told it's a service to the Lord. You don't get paid in this age. To me, it's a form of indentured servitude, borderline slavery in some cases. You are in the army, you don't have rights, they say. But in the NT, where do you see the basis for such distorted human relations? People should serve the Lord, not a printing house/media company!

It's a scam, people - we got jobbed. I know, I was there. And here's the acid test: if you serve others, but the 'ministry' doesn't get its cut, how long will you last, before you're marginalized and then removed? Your service means nothing if they don't benefit. If you love the Lord, and love others, not just in word but in deed, and the 'ministry' isn't the recipient of the outpoured blessing, you will be viewed with suspicion and alarm. You are doing a "separate work", yada yada.

In Nyc, there are five full timers and I believe they all have salary. As I know few years ago, The salary is between 50k-60k

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[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

In Nyc, there are five full timers and I believe they all have salary. As I know few years ago, The salary is between 50k-60k

I can confirm that....I think......that is abnormally high, unless the cost of living in NYC demands it. Many full-timers do not even make barely above minimum wage! I know some full-timers used to make a special effort to get invited over to saints' houses towards the end of the month because they did not have enough money for food......and they 1) didn't feel comfortable asking their elders for more, or 2) it was denied.

Co workers and elders are supported by several of the nearby localities. Fulltimers at the ftta or the 3rd year in Boston are supported by their locality and nearby ones as well.


After the ftta those that stay full time are supported by a work fund that has recently been created in different regions. Saints make donations monthly to add to it. In my region the fund covers half the state and is about 600k. And, saints sign up to making recurring monthly donations.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

I can confirm that....I think......that is abnormally high, unless the cost of living in NYC demands it. Many full-timers do not even make barely above minimum wage! I know some full-timers used to make a special effort to get invited over to saints' houses towards the end of the month because they did not have enough money for food......and they 1) didn't feel comfortable asking their elders for more, or 2) it was denied.

LSM has never used their enormous wealth to compensate their employees. They always preferred real estate investments, legal expenses to protect their brand, and marketing to grow their membership.

[LeftLR]

Originally Posted by Ohio

LSM has never used their enormous wealth to compensate their employees. They always preferred real estate investments, legal expenses to protect their brand, and marketing to grow their membership.

LSM makes money from selling weekly reading material / 7 major conferences fee / small training session in between. The parent organization of LSM has many investments, one of is the largest

memorial Park & mortuary in S.CA.

[River]

Thanks, everyone for all the responses. I asked the question in response to my frustration with the double-speak that I am faced with when dealing with a staunch LC member. They are so critical of the fact that pastors and ministers in other churches are paid, including the nondenominational community church I attend. Now it is clear that just like other churches, they do pay their elders/serving ones, but they call it something else and say they don’t pay anyone. It just seems dishonest for them not to admit that they do and call it what it is. Admitting the problems they have is certainly a weak point for them.

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Paul Vusik

What you get with the LSM Corp is just a tip of the iceberg. Most local churches fall under the 501c3 exemptions, and it’s not just them but almost all churches and so called religious institutions. For these, you will never get the true financial statements and transparency! It’s a very useful loophole in the system to where almost nobody can have full access too, or see where the money is coming from or going. It’s is very rare that an organization would reveal their full financial records, bank transactions and such, unless it’s subpena by the courts. A cooperation would have to only disclose the income of their corporate officers, and gross for all other subcontractors and such, and provide gross total payroll for the year. Since all W2 employees are a private citizens, their income is only disclosed to IRS and not a public information (unless public tax money are being used). A lot of the officers could also be associated with other forms of corps and LLCs that are under the umbrella of a big corporation, and you would never know what they are getting paid for they’re services.

I will attached an image of the puzzle that’s LSM, and their officers. They are also associated with other entities, that are not 501c3. It’s a very difficult puzzle to put together, and I don’t think we will never know all about it. But it’s a visual that can help to see the web that’s is built there, and it can be manipulated as much as they would like. It doesn’t even include anything or any entity’s from outside of the USA , where you will never have access to.

https://www.hackberrycreekgetaways.com/our-story

Can anyone ID the leading brother looking guy in the suit?

This entity came from PV’s 1/17 post jpeg.

http://localchurchdiscussions.com/vB...1&d=1642480314

According to this, that is Benson Phillips.

https://issuu.com/arlingtontoday/doc..._issue_full/62

[Nell]

Originally Posted by sophitos

According to this, that is Benson Phillips.

https://issuu.com/arlingtontoday/doc..._issue_full/62

Nope. Not Benson Phillips.

Nell

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Nell

Nope. Not Benson Phillips.

Nell

I think Sophitos meant Benson Jr..

Just doing a quick search for the image that you reposted here from Paul’s link, it takes you to the site called corporation wiki, where you can find some more information. Looks to me that Benson Phillips and Barbara Phillips had a son named BEMSPM B PHILLIPS who is married to Anna Phillips, both of whom run that LLC, and pictured with their children on that photo. If you look at the blog, Anna Phillips is basically the go to when it comes to the business ops at least on the website. Maybe I got the couples mixed up, but it’s all owed and run by Phillips family as a personal LLC. It’s the son of Benson that pictured there and not the old man. I’ve met Benson some years ago, and he looks about 40 years older than his son.

https://www.corporationwiki.com/Cali.../29811374.aspx

https://www.corporationwiki.com/p/30...emspm-phillips

This is Ben Phillips (Benson's son) and family. His wife is Bob Little's daughter.

Originally Posted by HERn

I think Sophitos meant Benson Jr..

I did mean to refer to the son. It's been a while since I've had to use a Jr, and forgot to. At least he's been identified now.