Coworkers-"Reading the pure word is unbiblical and dangerous"

Another daily dose of Crazy Coworkers back at it again, but this time exalting Lee as the oracle of God and man being mislead and led into danger without his "grand oracle" interpretation.


The Real Witness Lee was a lover of money, megalomaniac, preserved evil to maintain his reign and image, and hated any verses dealing with works and goodness as those parts of the christian life conflict with his ministry of greed (money money money Witness Lee), and the fortress of evil covering those that follow the path of Satan, and sully those who wish stand for God. Im sorry Witness lee was a twisted man when really exposed, and his interpretation are a product/manifestation of his entire. That is why you dont rely on "one mans scripture" because his bias and state of mind will create a narrative of the bible that surrounds his ideology, practice, values, and preferences. Another example will be John MacArthur, he has his sycophants to and his bible with all his own footnotes (avoid these people).

Witness Lee at his best was a man who did not know how to truly love God, at his worse a man who did not love the lord but loved evil (avarice/money) perpetrators of evil (Philip), and those who break his commandments ( too long to list).

Final Statement- A man who does not keep the commandments of Jesus Christ does not love him (you know what powerful, piercing, and lovely verse I am referring to). Do not follow a man who tries to belittle the commandments of God, lord knows what he intends by doing such a thing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now Lets get to the actual words of the "Coworkers" or should I call them cardinals.
Google Search on Role of Cardinal- "aiding in the government of the Roman Catholic Church throughout the world". Coworker seems like a cardinal to me (lording over the local churches as "gods government/authority"). Same powerful lording position as a cardinal but just dress in suits instead of colorful and flashy robes.

Finally Here are the words of the coworkers (sorry had to vent a bit).

Title of Article from Shepherding Words- "Reading Only the ‘Pure Word’ – A Dangerous and Biblical Notion"

Apoligies Kingdom. The text you quoted is protected by copyright, and cannot be quoted without permission from the copyright holder. Regardless of the statement on the same website that the LC is not litigious, we need to honor the copyright laws.

Instead, please follow this link to the .pdf: Reading Only the ‘Pure Word’ – A Dangerous and Biblical Notion

Admins

What is your response to this, lets have a discussion. So much of that letter if full of half truths and hypocrisy I'm sure you all have lots to say.

- BTW, this is the most self centered/egotistical group I have ever meet, I mean in their eyes screw worshiping God all the time, lets worship ourselves and call our self the "father".

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by co-workers on shepherdingwords.com

Nehemiah 8:1-6 tells us that because of the great need for the returned Hebrews to hear and understand the “book of the law of Moses,” the Scriptures were brought forth and read publicly. However, verse 7 names thirteen men in addition to uncounted Levites who “helped people understand the law.” What the helpers said is not recorded, but the Bible approves of their service, saying in verse 8, “And they read in the book, in the law of God, interpreting and giving the sense, so that they [the people] understood the reading.” Thus, not only was the law (the “pure Word”) read to the people, but the helpers also interpreted the law and gave the sense of the reading so that the people could understand it.

Marker of a cult #1 - heavy reliance on OT stories applied to present NT church.

They use a situation of men helping to interpret the law in the OT and try to overlay that onto the NT church, when there is no reason for that parallel.

The NT believers have the Spirit within them.

Originally Posted by co-workers on shepherdingwords.com

In Acts 8 Philip the evangelist met an Ethiopian man who was reading the prophet Isaiah (vv. 26-28; cf. 21:8). Philip asked him, “Do you really know the things that you are reading?” (v. 30). The Ethiopian responded, “How could I unless someone guides me?” (v. 31) and later, “I beseech you, concerning whom does the prophet say this?” (v. 34). Philip did not tell him that it was adequate for him to read the “pure Word” or that he did not need human exposition to understand it. Rather, “Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he announced Jesus as the gospel to him” (v. 35). The Bible does not record what Philip said, but through his speaking he led the eunuch to “believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God” and baptized him (vv. 37-38). The eunuch was not saved through merely reading the “pure Word”; he needed Philip’s teaching to open the Word to him.

Marker of a cult #2 - horrible interpretations that sound scriptural but are used to control behaviors in unbiblical ways and that even a simpleton like me can see through.

In their example of the Ethiopian in Acts 8, obviously ......OBVIOUSLY...... the Ethiopian is an unbeliever!! Of course unbelievers need help understanding the Word - they DON'T have the Holy Spirit, they don't have the anointing. The co-workers' article literally says "Philip....announced Jesus as the gospel to him", led him to Christ and then baptized him! The people in the local churches who have a problem with the extreme exaltation of Witness Lee and his ministry are not unbelievers in darkness who don't know the gospel. They are conscience-led, Spirit-filled, anointing-following believers who DO know the gospel, and it's precisely because of that that they speak up about the deviations from the Bible!

It actually kind of makes me laugh to see the co-workers' koo-koo justifications get more and more nutty as time goes on.....they are finally having to start answering questions and dealing with issues that they have avoided for a long, long time, and what they have touted as concrete pillars are starting to be revealed as flimsy little toothpicks. The more articles they write, the more the threatening false-deputy authorities of God are being revealed for the scripture-twisting false teachers that they are.

I feel like I'm writing harshly, but I just hate what has gone on for so long. I do hope that there would be genuine acknowledgement of their sins, genuine godly sorrow and repentance for what they have done, and a genuine turn from the path they have been going down for far too long. None of the co-workers are too far gone for the blood of Jesus, that their own teachings deny, to be able to reach them.

That's not a statement on the lack of severity of their sins, but a statement on just how far His blood can reach.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Trapped

In their example of the Ethiopian in Acts 8, obviously ......OBVIOUSLY...... the Ethiopian is an unbeliever!! Of course unbelievers need help understanding the Word - they DON'T have the Holy Spirit, they don't have the anointing. The co-workers' article literally says "Philip....announced Jesus as the gospel to him", led him to Christ and then baptized him! The people in the local churches who have a problem with the extreme exaltation of Witness Lee and his ministry are not unbelievers in darkness who don't know the gospel. They are conscience-led, Spirit-filled, anointing-following believers who DO know the gospel, and it's precisely because of that that they speak up about the deviations from the Bible!

It actually kind of makes me laugh to see the co-workers' koo-koo justifications get more and more nutty as time goes on.....they are finally having to start answering questions and dealing with issues that they have avoided for a long, long time, and what they have touted as concrete pillars are starting to be revealed as flimsy little toothpicks. The more articles they write, the more the threatening false-deputy authorities of God are being revealed for the scripture-twisting false teachers that they are.

Yes, it is obvious that the Ethiopian needed guidance, as he was not regenerated! This is truly remarkable and dumbfounding if this passage and certain ones in the OT, are being used to justify how the saints need to have their food predigested by "experts." This is completely reminiscent of the RCC, which to this day believes that the laity is not really qualified to understand scripture for themselves.

And how many times did I sit in LC gatherings where the clergy-laity system was railed against for just that same reason? Dozens I'm sure! Is this really the direction the Blendeds are going in, or are we mistakenly reading something into this?

[Indiana]

ShepherdingWords.com article - published March 23, 2021

Reading Only the ‘Pure Word’ – A Dangerous and Unbiblical Notion
Quote from the anonymous writer

"From time to time a brother will trumpet the misguided notion that saints should read only the Bible, the 'pure Word', 'untainted' by anyone’s interpretation. Some have used this notion as a ploy to entice the saints to reject the ministry of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee as 'man’s interpretation.' On the surface, the teaching that we should read the Bible exclusively and without any interpretation may sound laudable. Actually, this is unbiblical and impractical. It casts aside a crucial means by which God perfects men in this age, and, conversely, inflates the self and makes a person subject to being misled into serious errors."
[My emphasis]

The more important matter to address! Were gifted brothers, Nee and Lee, also subject to being misled into serious errors? Yes. They were human.

Witness Lee had experienced 30 years in the church life as a leader, before coming to the U. S., where he solemnly forewarned the church, "Oh, we all must learn this! We must be aware of the dangerous tendency for any local church to become a work, kept in the hand of some gifted person. If such is the case, that is a real degradation. However much the Lord may use a gifted person, however great his ministry may be, the local church must not become his work. God’s intention is not to build up the ministry of any person, but to build up His church. This is not a small matter."


The Ministry Becomes the Lampstand
(Witness Lee, The Vision of God’s Building, 1964)

1964 Los Angeles

“All gifts and all gifted persons are for the building up of the Body; they are not for any work in itself. The practice of today’s Christianity is absolutely different in principle. Wherever there is a gifted person, a spiritual “giant” with a certain gift, that person will begin a work. He will build up a certain Christian organization or ministry, and possibly call it some worthy name. We are not opposing anyone, but we are against the wrong principles which damage the Body life. The Apostle Paul did not form any Christian organization; he did not set up any kind of work. For possibly thirty years, he just established local churches. And, he did not keep any work in his own hands. In reading the New Testament we can only find the churches which were built up by him.

“At the time the Apostle John wrote the book of Revelation he was greatly experienced and matured. Of the twelve apostles he was the only one remaining. Yet he did not build up anything as his work, his ministry. Consider the local churches in Asia to whom he wrote: most of them were exceedingly weak; yet those churches were the lampstands, not the ministry of the Apostle John. John’s ministry was far more spiritual than the condition of those churches; yet he did not set up his ministry as a lampstand. In fact, he did not set up his ministry as anything. All he did was to further the building up of those local churches as the lampstands. Oh, we all must learn this! We must be aware of the dangerous tendency for any local church to become a work, kept in the hand of some gifted person. If such is the case, that is a real degradation. However much the Lord may use a gifted person, however great his ministry may be, the local church must not become his work. God’s intention is not to build up the ministry of any person, but to build up His church. This is not a small matter.

“In the New Testament there are the titles, the “church of God” (Acts 20:28), the “church of Christ” (Rom. 16:16), and the “church of the saints” (1 Cor. 14:33); 1Thess. 1:1). There is never any “church of the apostles. The church belongs to God, to Christ, to the saints, not to any apostle.

“The greater our gift is, the greater is the danger that we will take over the church and keep it in our hands. This will greatly damage the church life. We must learn not only how to minister in the local church, but also how to keep our hands off the church. This is not easy. The local church is not our personal enterprise. The local church is the property of the local saints, not some worker’s business. Some gifted persons put a local church in their pocket. Oh, this is a real problem! …All gifts and gifted persons must be entirely for the local church. This is a tremendously vital matter.”

[OBW]

There is a reasonable argument that in some cases reading the word can be dangerous, but not because it is unbiblical. Only because we are prone to want to read what we expect or desire rather than what is there. If we are willing to take the words as they are, there should be no problem.

However, in the case of reading the word through the lens of Lee and Nee, we are then forced to understand it through their wants and desires and not based on the words actually on the page. This is never more clearly demonstrated than when Lee would change meanings from what is clearly there, or even just dismiss what is written altogether, because of his lens of "God's economy."

So it is bad enough for us to read the word expecting it to say something other than what it actually says. It is worse when you are led away from what it says by men who claim that just reading what it says is harmful or dangerous. These are the kinds of men that Paul warned should be refused. They should not be allowed to teach.

[Curious]

Originally Posted by Kingdom

Another example will be John MacArthur, he has his sycophants to and his bible with all his own footnotes (avoid these people).

Interesting side note. I have been following John macarthur out of curiosity and I've found this, there exists a YouTube channel titled 'the Bible Thumping Wingnut Network', BTWN for short, with the subtitle 'Christianity's market place of ideas', added every time.

Well, its not a marketplace of ideas at all.... Its all 'Pastor John Macarthur said this, and Pastor John Macarthur said that'. It supports him and discredits any disgreement with him at every turn, as well as the source of any disagreement. It's nothing other than a propogander machine, and is absolutely no 'market place of ideas' whatsoever!!!

So it's a lie, what it does, has nothing to do with its sub-heading. (Its main heading, 'bible thumping wingnut network', meaning nothing much, just trying to sound 'cool' for younger people). So it's just the same structure of lies as Witness Lee built in to his promotional methods. I appreciate this extra comment on John Macarthur. Sad how predictable these patterns repeat, but good to be alert to see them!!

This forum does not promise to be a 'market place' for Christian ideas..... but it turns out to be one, genuinely. It is a place where people can express what they think and be free to disagree with others, and work out their own convictions genuinely, alongside the main point of the forum. That is a rare strength, and is the only way to genuine unity and spiritual maturity, with which it goes hand in hand.

[OBW]

I don't know what to think about MacArthur. I kinda like his translation. Not because it is so accurate or great, but because it makes me consider the passages restated rather than just regurgitated with minor modernizations of a word or two here and there. I have found that the more we read the word in a different translation (and "differenter" is often better) the more likely we are to be open to what it is saying rather than just what we already think it says. I would never build my theology on it. And I don't follow anything about him otherwise.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by OBW

However, in the case of reading the word through the lens of Lee and Nee, we are then forced to understand it through their wants and desires and not based on the words actually on the page. This is never more clearly demonstrated than when Lee would change meanings from what is clearly there, or even just dismiss what is written altogether, because of his lens of "God's economy."

Interestingly enough, I was just reading something by T. Austin Sparks where he talks about God's economy - His "old economy" (old covenant) and "new economy" (new covenant). This has been published in book form from a series of talks given in 1968 by Sparks, and I wonder when he first started speaking of God's economy.

I also wonder how many others of used that phrase. I heard a radio speaker mention the Greek word this week (oikonomia), but he then translated and used it as "administration."

[OBW]

"Economy," or however it is translated, is about how things practically work together. If you are talking about money, it is about what influences prices, costs, desires to purchase, desires to save, etc. In terms of a household, it is about how everything is handled. It is not about doling out things — or at least not solely so. It is not "simply" anything.

If someone is talking about an "old" v "new" economy, then they are talking about some specific interworking of things that have changed over time, whether suddenly or gradually.

If God created the heavens and the earth, and all that lives or otherwise is on the earth, then it is reasonable to assert that God's economy is how everything interacts. In the context of our guidebook for living as the image-bearers of God, it is about everything that makes that so. It is about righteousness, obedience, walking, talking, transacting business in the marketplace, and dealing with our employees (hired or slave) and our families. And on and on.

It is not a rule to reimage "obey" into "turn to your spirit." To dismiss willfully righteous living as "not according to God's economy." And there is the crux of a system that needs teachings external to the scripture to refocus your understanding of that scripture as something different than what it is.

This morning I read a little in an article that is giving a warning to Evangelicalism. In it it makes the following statements:

1. Training is important. You should not sit under a pastor who has no serious biblical or theological training (and there are, of course, many different kinds of training).
2. MacArthur, Sproul, Piper, etc., are not reliable Bible scholars or Theologians. There’s a reason why they’re almost universally regarded in academia as unreliable biblical or theological guides. It’s not because “academia is liberal”. It’s because most of the experts recognize that folks like this—however much good they have done for the kingdom of God—don’t demonstrate the necessary competencies to handle complex historical, biblical, and theological issues with skill and nuance. There’s a reason why many have flocked to Wright, McKnight, Bird, etc. It’s not just because they’ve found in these scholars a tasteful balance and nuance. It’s because they recognize a requisite competency.
3. Rediscover the great ecumenical creeds of the church as the markers of genuine Christianity. Stop making your church’s doctrine number 89 a “gospel issue”.

from "A Plea and a Warning for Evangelicalism," 2/15/2021, in Jesus Creed, part of Christianity Today's blog forum.

Here we see warnings about some teachers that have significantly more real training than either Lee or Nee did, yet many well-founded Christian academics would never refer to them for purposes of truly understanding the Bible. At best, Nee and Lee should never have been more than some local pastor repeating the things they learned from others Sunday after Sunday. Neither qualified as actually trained to make the kind of pontifications they did about the meaning of scripture.

Now we have the likes of Kangas, Phillips, etc., regurgitating their pabulum on a regular basis.

[Curious]

I want to challenge the idea that truth is discerned by having enough acadamia on board. That it requires a disciplined, scientific and rigorous theoretical approach. As though you have to be very clever and scholarly to get all the nuances right, and put it all together correctly.

For a long time, in England, a certain woman has been most highly respected as a teacher and expositor of truth, as well as inspiration and encouragement. (Whenever available for such). Her name is Jackie Pullinger. She did not gain her insights by sitting in the back of a library in some Christian training institution. No. That's tha last place you'd find her!!

As a posh, British young lady, she went and ministered in one of the darkest places in the world. On her own, with no Christian organisation to back her.

https://youtu.be/3H0p4yy0NbY

She's well worth a watch.
Also, I have seen the walled city first hand, (not been inside) and I regularly visited her church for about 2-3 years when I lived there. I saw and took part in some of the work as a volunteer. I can tell you for sure it's all true, all real.

It makes me think that truly understanding the gospel comes from truly following it: Loving those who suffer, and giving yourself for them. Living by faith and laying yourself on the line out of devotion to God and your calling. That's what she did, and the Bible all makes sense to her!!

Interesting after all she has done she speaks of her own personal need of identifying where she has fallen short and has need of repentance! (that's from another interview). The polar opposite of someone like Witness Lee!!

She is truly amazing, I don't know who here may know of her already. She blows the idea of women not being able to preach right out of the water too, by the way, but to my knowledge she has not discussed that topic, or even thought about it!!!

[Nell]

But...but...but...guys?....Ron?...what about this chapter?

2 Timothy 3
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

When I was new to the LC, Witness Lee taught us to "study the Bible WITH the Bible". This chapter cannot be reconciled with this "Reading the pure word is unbiblical and dangerous" business.

Nell

The scribes, the pharisees, the saducees, the lawyers, and the priests, the high priest, and the members of the Sanhedrin were all highly educated, 'theologically trained', academically steeped teachers of the law.

The Lord chose NONE of them to be among his initial twelve apostles while he was still on Earth. He even chose a thief (Judas) over and above all of them.

Afterwards, during Paul 's heavy persecution of the saints it is extremely unlikely that of those he caught that there was even one single 'theologically-trained' ex-pharisee. So who was teaching the early saints? They were sitting at the feet of a bunch of uneducated, rural, rustic, and rough-mannered fishermen WHO HAD BEEN WITH JESUS!

All we need is to be with Jesus.

Question is, to be with Jesus do I need to go to a seminary to get a degree (all about Jesus) or to attend a 'Full Time Training' to learn and imitate how Jesus used to 'lay his bed' and 'iron his clothes' and 'polish his sandals' and 'memorise the scrolls', etc etc?

I suspect not.

The problem with the co workers and their exhortation is singular.......the sheep cannot sit at the feet of the wolves expecting helpful instruction in interpreting scripture. They can, however, expect to be eaten alive.
~byHismercy

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Kingdom

Another daily dose of Crazy Coworkers back at it again, but this time exalting Lee as the oracle of God and man being mislead and led into danger without his "grand oracle" interpretation.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now Lets get to the actual words of the "Coworkers" or should I call them cardinals.
Google Search on Role of Cardinal- "aiding in the government of the Roman Catholic Church throughout the world". Coworker seems like a cardinal to me (lording over the local churches as "gods government/authority"). Same powerful lording position as a cardinal but just dress in suits instead of colorful and flashy robes.

Finally Here are the words of the coworkers (sorry had to vent a bit).

Title of Article from Shepherding Words- "Reading Only the ‘Pure Word’ – A Dangerous and Biblical Notion"

Apoligies Kingdom. The text you quoted is protected by copyright, and cannot be quoted without permission from the copyright holder. Regardless of the statement on the same website that the LC is not litigious, we need to honor the copyright laws.

Instead, please follow this link to the .pdf: Reading Only the ‘Pure Word’ – A Dangerous and Biblical Notion

Admins

What is your response to this, lets have a discussion. So much of that letter if full of half truths and hypocrisy I'm sure you all have lots to say.

Lots of well said responses on this already, that I agree with. Here are some thoughts:

I don’t think we saints that speak up are trumpeting “reading only the holy word”. Rather warning that not reading the Bible itself and relying only on two ministers and their ministry only is unbiblical and dangerous. Yes, there is a need for believers to be discipled, encouraged, and sometimes corrected by other believers along with The Holy Spirit. And, best to receive from multiple ministers and ministries.

The Blendeds start with an argument against something we aren’t saying and never explain why it is healthy and biblical for saints to restrict their reading to only their ministry.