Finally Writing About My Years in the Recovery

[Davis]

I’ve wanted to write about my experiences in the Lord’s Recovery movement for a while, but it’s felt daunting because there is so much to say. I grew up in a medium-sized locality in Southern California (aka not Anaheim). My grandparents gave their lives to the Recovery and we hosted Tuesday prayer meetings, Friday/Saturday home meetings, and rarely missed Sunday meetings. I heard very little music beyond church life songs and classical music. We did watch movies and TV, but content was definitely censored. We didn't celebrate Halloween or Christmas, which was hard to explain to others as a child, and still is. Sometimes I would lie when classmates asked what presents I received. I was not materially deprived as a child (looking back, I was still quite privileged), but I mention that experience to show that even though I was raised to love the church life, I realized that there was something strange about it: something that kept me from experiences that were normal for other children and something that I should avoid telling others about.

It’s hard to remember how I felt about things at every stage of my life, but I think there was a general mix of feelings. Although I did struggle with some of the restrictions, I was told that I was obeying God and I developed a personal relationship with God at a pretty young age. To this day, I believe that the majority of people I grew up around in the church are good people. I was also blessed to have a few very close friends throughout my childhood. There was a lot that I enjoyed about the church life: those close friendships most of all, but I loved the larger community too and the fun activities that we participated in as young people. I think that the juxtaposition of those genuinely positive experiences with the belief that being in the church life was the “right” thing to do brought me into a period of active participation. I attempted to pay close attention to the messages in young people’s meetings and conferences, I memorized verses, I wholeheartedly participated in the meetings, I “shared my enjoyment”. I was the model of a good church kid during this time. Looking back, it was really just like playing a game and I was great at playing the game. At the 6th grade conference when we were supposed to become officially saved, I panicked that night and asked my best friend if he had felt anything because I didn’t. Still, I got baptized the next week and maintained that active participation for a few years. I was caught up in the excitement, but when it came to actually experiencing God and Christian teaching, I simply learned the right things to say and the right pieces of the Bible or the ministry to repeat while thinking it was a genuine experience.

Despite this period that appeared positive, I can’t remember a specific time when things dramatically changed, but they definitely did. My older siblings never had those positive experiences, and we were very close. Their feelings coupled with things in the church life that always appeared/came to appear weird or wrong to me (beyond my earlier examples: constant and expected amens, some who called on the Lord or said amen in an uncomfortably sexual manner, remaining in the realm of vaguery when discussing serious or outside matters, sexism, reverence of Witness Lee, pressure to participate and share), it was not that surprising when a friend a few years older than me left because he was afraid it was a cult. It’s wild to me that my friends and I just joked about this like “yeah, it sure does seem like it could be”. In our teen years, we went from sitting in the first row at conferences and sharing after every message, to barely paying attention in the back row if we couldn’t escape them altogether.

In high school, I had already begun to drift away from the church, but it was accelerated when I started dating a girl (I was not allowed to date at all). Although my parents found out and decided that they shouldn’t force me to end the relationship, I resented how they controlled it and restricted me from what made me most happy. Being in love was far better than anything I had ever experienced in the church. I pushed God away. For a while I tried to appear like I was still interested, but mentally I was almost completely removed and I eventually gave up trying. Throughout high school, my beliefs about the world changed a lot—and have continued to change to this day—and I began to see that they are incompatible with the Recovery and even Christianity as a whole. That makes me uncomfortable sometimes because I was raised to fear for the souls of those who were outside of the Recovery, but generally, I’m at peace with it. I wish I could say that I don’t believe in the Recovery’s God at all, but deep-down I’m still afraid that I’m wrong and will be punished. However, I am also open to the possibility of a different and better God or Creator and also okay with there being none at all. For the most part, I’m happy with my life and who I am today.

Today, I don’t think the Recovery is a cult, but it is definitely an aberrant, controlling group. Writing this all out was very helpful, as I have tried to distance myself from these experiences by just ignoring them or downplaying their significance in my life. Even when I started reading about the church online (I've lurked on this forum on and off for a few years now and read elsewhere), I never fully acknowledged that this movement, this church, had a drastic influence on myself and my family. This experience was very cathartic and I removed some parts I wrote because I felt that they were too personal to share. There is so much more than I could say here right now. I don’t know exactly where to go from here, but I feel so relieved to have this out there.

I recognize that this is predominantly a Christian forum. Given the current discourse especially, I want to reiterate that I am happy with where I am spiritually but will respect responses of any nature, provided you respect my beliefs too.

[jigsaw44]

Thanks so much for your testimony- great detailed breakdown on every part of your life in the LC.

I got a question for you and others that know the answer to this question

Q. What is the idea of philosophy of "Love" in the LC?
- Do they seem it as something that needs to be controlled until a certain point of time when one is ready for marriage. Or do they see it as a "worldly" and sinful thing? The idea of being super strict on dating for youth is common in the Christian world of parenting. But I have seen men beyond 30 who can't even approach a women just as a 15 year old can't. It has to be something more than, simply- don't worry about love til your older. Just even older gentlemen in the LC can't pursue a women they "love".

Is love a positive emotion in the LC at any point? Or is any sign of emotional attachment bad? Cause they don't even believe in friends, I couldn't even imagine a positive outlook of love for another person. That is prob why they separate genders so much is to prevent emotional development on any significant scale. But what is the benefit of just not letting people chose who they truly want? Why are elders the puppet master's in regards to putting people together like animals with no emotions and just testosterone that needs to be utilized for "fruitful" purposes"? Is it to make sure a ****ty marriage leads to one hanging on closer to the church rather than someone they truly love? I am not saying all LC marriages have no Joy, I have seen a darn good handful of happy LC Marriages, but the ****ty marriages are there in large numbers and the couple can barely put a smile on their faces when together and look downright miserable. Bad marriages are in every facet of society and happen for one reason or another. But why make it so hard for one to experience love and proper pursuit of a life long partner at even an adult age when one has their life in order? It must be their personal and official view of "love".

Is there a statement by witness Lee or some living stream ministry publication by the coworkers that emphasizes this skewed philosophy of anti love sentiment? Or is it just some de facto customers that developed due to the overall LC culture crafting this seemingly negative view on "love"?

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Davis

... I developed a personal relationship with God at a pretty young age.

Thanks, Davis, for sharing your story. I believe you have found the key to the Christian life with this statement: I developed a personal relationship with God.

Seeking a "church" or "church-life" may leave you with an organization created by man, thinking they know what "church" is, or what "church" means. It may be good, satisfying, meaningful, (or not). You may grow, learn from the Word, all kinds of good things (or not), but nothing can replace having a personal relationship with God Himself.

Paul said, in Phillipians 3: "That I may know him..." I think this is our greatest need and our salvation. The matter of "church" may "go away" altogether when we know him, trust him and obey him, and trust him to lead us to other believers for fellowship.

Thanks again for sharing.

Nell

[NZexCK]

Thanks for your intro, I can relate to just about every single thing that you said. It’s always nice to know of someone else who felt the same way as I did, even as a pretty young child with sensing things being off. I will have to start working on my intro soon.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Davis

I grew up in a medium-sized locality ...My grandparents gave their lives to the Recovery and we hosted Tuesday prayer meetings, Friday/Saturday home meetings, and rarely missed Sunday meetings.

It's cathartic to be able to look at ourselves, talk about our history, to struggle to make sense and communicate what meaning may emerge. And it's not only cathartic but it helps others realize, "Hey, I'm not the only one". I suspect that a lot of the children raised in the LC came to similar conclusions and reactions as you did, so you are being "normal" to paraphrase Watchman Nee's book - "The Normal Ex Church Kid Life".

Your grandparents gave their lives to the Recovery and that's normal, too. People grow up alienated, confused, looking for answers, for comfort. Many find those answers in religion. But to impose their answers on others, as a one-size-fits-all objective reality, not to be questioned or modified or even rejected, I disagree. Why did they get the right to leave their grandparents' religion, but deny that same right to their grand-kids? To me that seems unhealthy, and not normal at all. If you want freedom to choose, you should extend the same privilege to others.

Originally Posted by Davis

I pushed God away. For a while I tried to appear like I was still interested, but mentally I was almost completely removed and I eventually gave up trying.

Here's a poem by a Canadian musician named Neil Peart. Called 'Subdivisions'

Sprawling on the fringes of the city
In geometric order
An insulated border
In-between the bright lights
And the far, unlit unknown
Growing up, it all seems so one-sided
Opinions all provided
The future pre-decided
Detached and subdivided
In the mass-production zone
Nowhere is the dreamer
Or the misfit so alone
Subdivisions
In the high school halls
In the shopping malls
Conform or be cast out
Subdivisions
In the basement bars
In the backs of cars
Be cool or be cast out
Any escape might help to smooth
The unattractive truth
But the suburbs have no charms to soothe
The restless dreams of youth
Drawn like moths, we drift into the city
The timeless old attraction
Cruising for the action
Lit up like a firefly
Just to feel the living night
Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory
Of lighted streets on quiet nights
Subdivisions
In the high school halls
In the shopping malls
Conform or be cast out
Subdivisions
In the basement bars
In the backs of cars
Be cool or be cast out
Any escape might help to smooth
The unattractive truth
But the suburbs have no charms to soothe
The restless dreams of youth

I quote this because this shows a young person growing up in secular, materialist culture and the rootless anxiety that it produces. It's normal for young people to look around and be dissatisfied, to want more. Some find answers in religion. Some don't. I think "normal" parents let their children find their own way. It's abnormal to tell your children they can't think for themselves. It's unhealthy. It's repressive. So it shouldn't be surprising that the majority of ex-LC youth, once grown, end up not only out of that group but allergic to any religious expression at all. It's perfectly normal.

[Davis]

Originally Posted by jigsaw44

Thanks so much for your testimony- great detailed breakdown on every part of your life in the LC.

I got a question for you and others that know the answer to this question

Q. What is the idea of philosophy of "Love" in the LC?
- Do they seem it as something that needs to be controlled until a certain point of time when one is ready for marriage. Or do they see it as a "worldly" and sinful thing? The idea of being super strict on dating for youth is common in the Christian world of parenting. But I have seen men beyond 30 who can't even approach a women just as a 15 year old can't. It has to be something more than, simply- don't worry about love til your older. Just even older gentlemen in the LC can't pursue a women they "love".

Is love a positive emotion in the LC at any point? Or is any sign of emotional attachment bad? Cause they don't even believe in friends, I couldn't even imagine a positive outlook of love for another person. That is prob why they separate genders so much is to prevent emotional development on any significant scale. But what is the benefit of just not letting people chose who they truly want? Why are elders the puppet master's in regards to putting people together like animals with no emotions and just testosterone that needs to be utilized for "fruitful" purposes"? Is it to make sure a ****ty marriage leads to one hanging on closer to the church rather than someone they truly love? I am not saying all LC marriages have no Joy, I have seen a darn good handful of happy LC Marriages, but the ****ty marriages are there in large numbers and the couple can barely put a smile on their faces when together and look downright miserable. Bad marriages are in every facet of society and happen for one reason or another. But why make it so hard for one to experience love and proper pursuit of a life long partner at even an adult age when one has their life in order? It must be their personal and official view of "love".

Is there a statement by witness Lee or some living stream ministry publication by the coworkers that emphasizes this skewed philosophy of anti love sentiment? Or is it just some de facto customers that developed due to the overall LC culture crafting this seemingly negative view on "love"?

I've tried to think about this for a couple days, but it's not an easy question to answer. I'm sure it varies quite a bit depending on the particular LC. In my experience, there is an unspoken, yet intense fear of encouraging sexual activity. It was implied that any romantic relationships at a young age will lead to "improper" behavior (I put that in quotes because I think there are some who would say that kissing should be saved until marriage). Even among adults, any relationships were kept very quiet until an engagement announcement. And as you've noticed, there are almost silly measures taken like married people who avoid sitting next to anyone of the opposite gender except their spouse.

There is a strong stigma toward divorce, so when divorces do occur, it's never spoken of. However, I think that some of the lovelessness you may see isn't in situations where people want out. I think that many don't know how to be in a healthy, loving relationship. Few do anywhere, but I think that unhealthy (not necessarily toxic) relationships are normalized in the LC.

I think that this may come from the teaching that overcoming Christians should place Christ and the church above all else, including family. Of course, this isn't necessarily kept in practice, but I've heard it in teaching and it does affect the way people treat their relationships. A truly loving relationship, especially among young people, is a distraction from the church. It was for me. Instead of a normal and natural thing, this is treated as negative. Romantic relationships that aren't completely grounded in the church are somewhat seen as a pathway away from God.

I feel like I have over-generalized here because it's really challenging to talk about things that are not spoken about. I'm speaking from things that have been said to me as well as broader practices and attitudes that I've observed.

[Davis]

Originally Posted by NZexCK

Thanks for your intro, I can relate to just about every single thing that you said. It’s always nice to know of someone else who felt the same way as I did, even as a pretty young child with sensing things being off. I will have to start working on my intro soon.

Thanks for the reply! I'm glad that my testimony was relatable to you. My goal is to be able to discuss my experience in a way that benefits others who feel similarly. I'm looking forward to reading your intro!

[Davis]

@Nell, as always, thank you for taking the time to reply to me! I appreciate the sentiment you are conveying. I think that one of the most dubious contradictions many of us here have experienced is the highly religious rejection of "religion" in the LC.

@aron, thank you so much for your response. I'm actually a huge Rush fan, so this was quite a pleasant surprise. They were one of the few exceptions to the music I heard when I was young, though it took some time for their greatness to sink into my head. I've always liked Subdivisions, but I never related to its message as much as I do now, thank you for that. I appreciate your thoughtful attitude toward ex-church kids who lose their way after the LC, for good or bad.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Davis

I've always liked Subdivisions, but I never related to its message as much as I do now, thank you for that. I appreciate your thoughtful attitude toward ex-church kids who lose their way after the LC, for good or bad.

I'm glad my post resonated somewhat. The line from Subdivisions that says ''Conform or be cast out'' always impressed me - the universality of it. We're a social species, and conformity to group norms is so endemic to our human condition, whether religion, or high school, or job site. Anyone who tries to think independently is perhaps going to have some issues along the way. But there's no choice, really - we're also built to think, to challenge, to question, to weigh alternatives. We just have to reconcile the two impulses. It's a creative tension, that we learn to live with. To be somewhat integrated and somewhat aloof.

In my case, I was a non-conformist in HS but really I just conformed to a new group, the so-called "counterculture". But it was groupthink anyway. It took me years to figure that one out. Subdivisions touches on that, too: that you drift from one box, into another, all the while thinking you're getting free, and now doing your own thing. The line about basement bars and backs of cars... instead of conforming to parents and teachers, you're conforming to your peers.

I appreciated your story about being a 6th grader at the conference where you were all supposed to get "saved". And your response of "doing the right thing", the expected and necessary ritual, while wondering inwardly at the dubious nature of it all. Thank you for taking the time to write. Your voice matters, not only for your own journey but for all the voiceless ones out there.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

The line from Subdivisions that said, ''Conform or be cast out'' always struck me as poignant - we're a social species, and conformity is endemic to our human condition, whether religion, or high school, or job site. Anyone who tries to think independently is perhaps going to have some issues along the way.

Also love Rush, growing up in Cleveland, which introduced Rush to the US, and where "Working Man" was the city's theme song back in my youth.

But I'm trying to reconcile my LC experience with your poignant, ''Conform or be cast out.'' I was one who tried to conform, to fit, yet usually was not accepted, until I found brothers in the LC. That was a very real dynamic in my soul, I felt "accepted" in a way I had never been before. Perhaps explaining why I stayed so long.

This is perhaps the only explanation I can come up with for the horrible disparity between the 1st and 2nd Gen members' experiences. Of course, things for every one have seriously deteriorated over time. Whereas I found freedom, at least initially, church kids found bondage, legalism, lack of social contact, abuse, intellectual oppression.

I have had some interesting conversations with my own adult son over the years, post LC, which I found entirely eye-opening. I doubt that any LC parents had a clue what was happening within their children. I have often said that my biggest failure in the LC was trusting the leaders without reservation. Supposedly we were the best God had to offer. Little did we know.

[Bear]

There are so many things in your post that are relatable, Davis. It seems like there are so many experiences that church kids have in common. This blows my mind because I had thought some things were just due to the quarks of the people in the locality I grew up in. That is just not right how your relationship was controlled. Personal relationships should not be up for grabs for others to have a say in.

[alwayscurious]

Originally Posted by Davis

A truly loving relationship, especially among young people, is a distraction from the church. It was for me. Instead of a normal and natural thing, this is treated as negative. Romantic relationships that aren't completely grounded in the church are somewhat seen as a pathway away from God.

Going through this right now as I'm well into my college years and am still in the LC physically but checked out of it mentally. Met a really nice girl who's a Christian (not in LC fortunately, seems to love the Lord even more than I do sometimes, which is such a good sign), and we're currently in the talking/going on dates phase but I'm quite literally frozen in fear as to what will happen if I take the next step in actually starting a relationship with her. My parent would definitely be upset, maybe even furious, but I'm just not sure what the reaction will be among other saints in the LC when I make that decision. I just don't understand why the LC frowns on relationships that aren't centered ON the LC, like why does everything have to be "IN-HOUSE"?

[Nell]

Originally Posted by alwayscurious

Going through this right now as I'm well into my college years and am still in the LC physically but checked out of it mentally. Met a really nice girl who's a Christian (not in LC fortunately, seems to love the Lord even more than I do sometimes, which is such a good sign), and we're currently in the talking/going on dates phase but I'm quite literally frozen in fear as to what will happen if I take the next step in actually starting a relationship with her. My parent would definitely be upset, maybe even furious, but I'm just not sure what the reaction will be among other saints in the LC when I make that decision. I just don't understand why the LC frowns on relationships that aren't centered ON the LC, like why does everything have to be "IN-HOUSE"?

The LC is what it is, and is not likely to change. It sounds like you have some decisions to make…have a long talk with Jesus.

Does your new friend know about the LC?

Nell

[alwayscurious]

Originally Posted by Nell

The LC is what it is, and is not likely to change. It sounds like you have some decisions to make…have a long talk with Jesus.

Does your new friend know about the LC?

Nell

Not yet, will definitely bring it up in the near future though.