We don't follow men, we're following the vision?

[jesusislord]

I often heard from the member of lc saying

We don't follow Nee and Lee, we're following the vision that they brought to us.

I was thinking, is this vision worth the split or distance the lc from Christianity? What's the special vision or revelation that the Lord has given to Nee and Lee but not the rest? Does Billy Graham didn't see the vision in the bible? How about Piper, MacArthur, Rick Warren, Cs Lewis, Paul Washer and thousand of pastor in the entire world didn't clear about the gospel?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by jesusislord

I often heard from the member of lc saying

We don't follow Nee and Lee, we're following the vision that they brought to us.

I was thinking, is this vision worth the split or distance the lc from Christianity? What's the special vision or revelation that the Lord has given to Nee and Lee but not the rest? Does Billy Graham didn't see the vision in the bible? How about Piper, MacArthur, Rick Warren, Cs Lewis, Paul Washer and thousand of pastor in the entire world didn't clear about the gospel?

So this might be interesting to explore: What are the main elements of the vision the LC is promoting?

Here's my take:

1. Ground of the church (each locality)
2. One ministry currently on the earth (Nee/Lee MOTA)
3. Man becoming God in life and nature (but not Godhead)
4. The human spirit indwelt by Christ
5. God's purpose - the Dwelling place of God (bride, body, building)

There may be other things, this is just my first stab at it. Personally, I don't have that much issue with the last two . . .

[Trapped]

see below from https://www.afaithfulword.org/articl...istryMinister/ for what LSM considers the "vision". This is taken from towards the end of an article specifically on the vision, ministry, and minister of the age.

This list makes me laugh because all the other "MOTAs" had singular visions, but for some reason, the visions just kept pouring out of Witness Lee, LOL.

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Just consider a few items that the Lord recovered in both truth and practice through Brother Lee's ministry since he came to the United States in 1962:

1. The human spirit mingled with the divine Spirit to be one spirit.
2. The enjoyment of Christ through the exercise of the spirit.
3. God's economy.
4. The essential and economical Trinity for the dispensing of God into man.
5. The all-inclusive Christ as the good land given to us as our portion for us to enter into and possess for the building of God's house and the establishment of His kingdom.
6. The heavenly ministry of Christ.
7. The all-inclusive Spirit as the consummation of the processed Triune God.
8. The sevenfold intensified Spirit to produce the overcomers.
9. God's complete salvation-judicial and organic.
10. The life of the Triune God is dispensed into the tripartite man to save the believers organically and subjectively in this life through regeneration, sanctification, renewing, transformation, conformation, and glorification.
11. The ground of locality for the practical expression of the universal Body of Christ.
12. The experience of Christ as life for the building up of the church as the Body of Christ.
13. The designation of Christ's humanity in resurrection.
14. The New Jerusalem as the consummation of God's building.

In the latter stage of his ministry, Brother Lee's speaking continued to advance:

1. The high peak of the divine revelation-God becoming man to make man God in life and nature but not in the Godhead.
2. The divine-human incorporation.
3. The crystallized significance of the incarnation, human living, crucifixion, and resurrection of Christ.
4. The full ministry of Christ in three stages-incarnation, inclusion, and intensification.
5. The God-man living.
6. The overcoming saints as Zion in Jerusalem.
7. The God-ordained way to bear fruit through begetting, nourishing, perfecting, and building.
8. The vital groups.
9. The reality of the Body of Christ.
10. A corporate living in conformity to the death of Christ for the manifestation of the resurrection life.
11. Shepherding according to God as the service of the Body for the building up of itself in love.
12. The blending of the Body of Christ through fellowship among the individual members, the churches, the elders, and the co-workers.

While Brother Lee was with us, the recovery of the divine revelation was continually advancing. Brother Lee himself testified that the recovery of the Lord's revelation concerning the divine economy was shown to Brother Nee and him progressively.

[Trapped]

The LC distinction that they "don't follow a man, but only follow the vision" becomes meaningless when you read portions of the ministry that say things like "I feel no shame in saying that I followed a man" or "following the vision being following the one releasing the vision", i.e. you have to follow Witness Lee.

LC: We don't follow Witness Lee! We follow his vision!!

Q: How do you follow the vision?

LC: By following Witness Lee!

[Boxjobox]

Originally Posted by Trapped

see below from https://www.afaithfulword.org/articl...istryMinister/ for what LSM considers the "vision". This is taken from towards the end of an article specifically on the vision, ministry, and minister of the age.

This list makes me laugh because all the other "MOTAs" had singular visions, but for some reason, the visions just kept pouring out of Witness Lee, LOL.

------------------------------------------------

Just consider a few items that the Lord recovered in both truth and practice through Brother Lee's ministry since he came to the United States in 1962:

1. The human spirit mingled with the divine Spirit to be one spirit.
2. The enjoyment of Christ through the exercise of the spirit.
3. God's economy.
4. The essential and economical Trinity for the dispensing of God into man.
5. The all-inclusive Christ as the good land given to us as our portion for us to enter into and possess for the building of God's house and the establishment of His kingdom.
6. The heavenly ministry of Christ.
7. The all-inclusive Spirit as the consummation of the processed Triune God.
8. The sevenfold intensified Spirit to produce the overcomers.
9. God's complete salvation-judicial and organic.
10. The life of the Triune God is dispensed into the tripartite man to save the believers organically and subjectively in this life through regeneration, sanctification, renewing, transformation, conformation, and glorification.
11. The ground of locality for the practical expression of the universal Body of Christ.
12. The experience of Christ as life for the building up of the church as the Body of Christ.
13. The designation of Christ's humanity in resurrection.
14. The New Jerusalem as the consummation of God's building.

In the latter stage of his ministry, Brother Lee's speaking continued to advance:

1. The high peak of the divine revelation-God becoming man to make man God in life and nature but not in the Godhead.
2. The divine-human incorporation.
3. The crystallized significance of the incarnation, human living, crucifixion, and resurrection of Christ.
4. The full ministry of Christ in three stages-incarnation, inclusion, and intensification.
5. The God-man living.
6. The overcoming saints as Zion in Jerusalem.
7. The God-ordained way to bear fruit through begetting, nourishing, perfecting, and building.
8. The vital groups.
9. The reality of the Body of Christ.
10. A corporate living in conformity to the death of Christ for the manifestation of the resurrection life.
11. Shepherding according to God as the service of the Body for the building up of itself in love.
12. The blending of the Body of Christ through fellowship among the individual members, the churches, the elders, and the co-workers.

While Brother Lee was with us, the recovery of the divine revelation was continually advancing. Brother Lee himself testified that the recovery of the Lord's revelation concerning the divine economy was shown to Brother Nee and him progressively.

Just consider a few items that the Lord recovered in both truth and practice through Brother Lee's ministry since he came to the United States in 1962:

This statement alone should make one run from, and don't look back lest you turn into a pillar of salt!,the WL/LSM religion. Recover would mean these items were lost, yet we do not find these concepts developed by Jesus nor the Apostles. A recovery of the Church would be a recovery back to the vocabulary, presentations, and developed thoughts of Jesus and the Apostles as found in the scriptures. WL and all his visions created an alt-Christian religion- a mixing of scripture and his own theology and psychology sold through his business called LSM. The result is NOT the church presented in the scriptures but a Tupperware type organization that sells LSM.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

LC: We don't follow Witness Lee! We follow his vision!!

Q: How do you follow the vision?

LC: By following Witness Lee!

This is so true!

Couple comments regarding when WL himself obviously failed to "follow the vision":

1. Titus Chu and the Midwest: "Witness Lee is my spiritual father, his mistakes are none of my business."

2. The Blendeds and the rest of the world: "Even when WL is wrong, WL is still right."

And there you have the "Guiding Wisdom Principles of Following the Vision."