Concerning Lee's 1997 Admonition regarding Love

[Sons to Glory!]

According to what I've read in a few places, Witness Lee, shortly before his death in 1997, spoke about how he regretted certain things in his ministry and practices of the Local Churches. He repented that love was not emphasized, and also that there would be acceptance of believers outside the LC.

(If this assessment of what Lee spoke in 1997 is not accurate, someone please let me know.)

My question is this: Can anybody point to any instances where current leaders in the LC, have brought this up or spoken about it on the 22 years since Lee's passing?

[googlelight]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

According to what I've read in a few places, Witness Lee, shortly before his death in 1997, spoke about how he regretted certain things in his ministry and practices of the Local Churches. He repented that love was not emphasized, and also that there would be acceptance of believers not in the LC.

(If this assessment of what Lee spoke in 1997 is not accurate, someone please let me know.)

My question is this: Can anybody point to any instances where leaders in the LC, after brother Lee's death, have brought this up or spoken about it?

I cant answer your question directly, but I would say this, sadly:
Those most devoted to the ministry in my region, those who listen to wednesday night meetings, and go to responsible brothers conferences etc,. there is a strong "spirit" and attitude that show little or no interest in considering these things. Reconsidering LR arrogance. Reconsidering receiving believers according to Gods Son. Reconsidering the ministry NOT replacing the bible. In word and teaching they say the Bible is preeminent, in practice, I cant find this. I cant really explain this strong "ministry spirit" or what it exactly is, but all I can say I as a believer want to avoid it and I dont like it. Sadly I cant articulate what exactly it is that is sooo wrong with it.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by googlelight

I cant answer your question directly, but I would say this, sadly:
Those most devoted to the ministry in my region, those who listen to wednesday night meetings, and go to responsible brothers conferences etc,. there is a strong "spirit" and attitude that show little or no interest in considering these things. Reconsidering LR arrogance. Reconsidering receiving believers according to Gods Son. Reconsidering the ministry NOT replacing the bible. In word and teaching they say the Bible is preeminent, in practice, I cant find this. I cant really explain this strong "ministry spirit" or what it exactly is, but all I can say I as a believer want to avoid it and I dont like it. Sadly I cant articulate what exactly it is that is sooo wrong with it.

I recently listened online to a Ron Kangus message given last year, and maybe this is what is meant by the "Ministry Spirit." In it he was emphasizing that God is a God of purpose, and that no one can get in His way. This reminded me so very much of the speaking I'd heard from WL years ago - God is all about His purpose, and if you get in His way He will be like a steamroller and crush you into fine powder! This instilled a lot of fear in me, and I think in others.

Years later (post Recovery) the Lord showed me clearly that it is His love that is the primary motivation for what He does. Now I see the Bible is full of His love, and He will see His loving purpose fulfilled - for us ("all things are yours")! Before, what I saw was God was only about His purpose . . . and love was at least secondary (and therefore almost never talked about). I think this is what brother Lee was calling out as an error in 1997.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

My question is this: Can anybody point to any instances where current leaders in the LC, have brought this up or spoken about it on the 22 years since Lee's passing?

I seem to recall in the mid-2000's, some people in the midwest put out writings referencing what WL spoke. I think there was some response from LSM either in writing or in a semi-annual training where they basically tried to claim that only they knew what WL "really" meant when he spoke that.

[googlelight]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

I recently listened online to a Ron Kangus message given last year, and maybe this is what is meant by the "Ministry Spirit." In it he was emphasizing that God is a God of purpose, and that no one can get in His way. This reminded me so very much of the speaking I'd heard from WL years ago - God is all about His purpose, and if you get in His way He will be like a steamroller and crush you into fine powder! This instilled a lot of fear in me, and I think in others.

Years later (post Recovery) the Lord showed me clearly that it is His love that is the primary motivation for what He does. Now I see the Bible is full of His love, and He will see His loving purpose fulfilled - for us ("all things are yours")! Before, what I saw was God was only about His purpose . . . and love was at least secondary (and therefore almost never talked about). I think this is what brother Lee was calling out as an error in 1997.

Yes this is wonderful. Maybe love is the means He uses to fulfill His purpose? It is atleast that love, that captivated me when I was saved, and that love that still captivates me today when I get lost sometimes. It was also that love who, when I left Him for the world and completely let go of Him, but then I realized that something was still holdning me, after I let go - that love. This is probably also why I am in the process of leaving LR, because I cannot find in it the aroma of Christ anymore, although I am not saying there arent lots of true genuine seekers and lovers of Christ in LR, because there is.

I dont want to say much about RK, although he is coming quite often to Scandinavia (since he is partly finish), but one thing I know for a fact; what he says about John Ingalls is deceptive and is something I utterly reject. And also saying about another brother; he is a man of death, it is utterly shocking. Matt 5:22 "But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Raca, shall be liable to the judgment of the Sanhedrin; and whoever says, Moreh, shall be liable to the Gehenna of fire." Calling a brother "death" considering how terrible and strong this word is in LR, is way worse than calling a brother a fool. And one thing is for sure; in a sense I now completely reject the way of the blended brothers. And Cal has done too. Neither of has become lepers. I can testify, that even today I was invited to some Christians in the "poor denomination" and we have dinner, prayers and life-giving fellowship, and it is still burning in my heart. The Lord is so attractive to my heart in this very moment. How can this be after I completely reject the the ministry of the age and even question the whole idea of the blended brothers, ministry/minister of the age? Either I am deceiving myself and I am not enjoying Christ, or some of these brothers, they are false prophets. It cant be both.

When it comes to attitude, I love Spurgeon. In the 1800s (imo) he could easily have called himself the minister of the age. Sometimes speaking to 25 000 listeners in one place (Crystal Palace). But what was his attitude? He wrote in the preface to the book "Morning and Evening: Daily reading.":

We have written from our own hearts, and for the most part what we have written have refreshed our own spirits in our own experience. I hope that the Spirit of God will rest upon you while reading this, and that the time you spend will be a blessing. If you have the habit of reading other inspired books or other authors, we do not want to rob their place, but we strive that our writings get a place among them
I dont know about you, but this attitude I sense has the aroma of Christ

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

According to what I've read in a few places, Witness Lee, shortly before his death in 1997, spoke about how he regretted certain things in his ministry and practices of the Local Churches. He repented that love was not emphasized, and also that there would be acceptance of believers outside the LC.

(If this assessment of what Lee spoke in 1997 is not accurate, someone please let me know.)

My question is this: Can anybody point to any instances where current leaders in the LC, have brought this up or spoken about it on the 22 years since Lee's passing?

I have heard brothers speak of love, but that's all it is was speech. There was no action. It was superficial.
Whatever Lee spoke in 1997 in the local churches was nothing more than talking points for Prophesying meetings. Nothing of substance to change the LC culture.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I seem to recall in the mid-2000's, some people in the midwest put out writings referencing what WL spoke. I think there was some response from LSM either in writing or in a semi-annual training where they basically tried to claim that only they knew what WL "really" meant when he spoke that.

Right. The Concerned Brothers site has several papers about WL's repentance, and what it really was about.

This website has numerous enlightening papers written by brothers in the Midwest exposing the nefarious works of darkness orchestrated by LSM, DCP, and their operatives during the years surrounding the Quarantines of Midwest leaders.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by googlelight

I cant answer your question directly, but I would say this, sadly:
Those most devoted to the ministry in my region, those who listen to wednesday night meetings, and go to responsible brothers conferences etc,. there is a strong "spirit" and attitude that show little or no interest in considering these things. Reconsidering LR arrogance. Reconsidering receiving believers according to Gods Son. Reconsidering the ministry NOT replacing the bible. In word and teaching they say the Bible is preeminent, in practice, I cant find this. I cant really explain this strong "ministry spirit" or what it exactly is, but all I can say I as a believer want to avoid it and I dont like it. Sadly I cant articulate what exactly it is that is sooo wrong with it.

Reading the book of Acts and especially Paul's epistles, we see the same strong "ministry spirit" in the Judaizers. They attacked Paul at every opportunity. They would even stir up the secular rulers to hurt the apostles, much the same as LSM would file lawsuits against their opponents. Unfortunately it is often difficult to distinguish between religious zeal and genuine love for God and His people.

The same horrible contradictions existed in the New Testament. How else can we explain how Christians would sue their brothers and sisters just for wanting the liberty to adhere to the scriptures rather than their ministry? This is exactly what happened in all the Midwest LC's ten years ago.

They are not a Christian ministry that serves others with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, rather an abusive worldly organization that uses the scripture to enslave others to their aberrant sect. They really care nothing for the oneness of the body of Christ, rather use oneness to create walls and strongholds between them and the rest of the body of Christ. Like politicians and Pharisees, pay no attention to what they say, but to what they do.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

(If this assessment of what Lee spoke in 1997 is not accurate, someone please let me know)
My question is this: Can anybody point to any instances where current leaders in the LC, have brought this up or spoken about it on the 22 years since Lee's passing?

So are we to believe that a few insincere deathbed confession words by Witness (in Chinese) were going to repair the damage of a half-century's worth of attacking, denigrating and insulting his brothers and sisters in Christ? I think not. Maybe better late than never? Well, the final judgment about this lies in the hands of him who holds our rewards.

What we do know for a fact is that this "admonition regarding love" had zero effect or impact on the hearts and minds of the Blended Brothers to be. In a few short years after Lee's passing, these men did their best to set in stone the legacy of Witness Lee and "the Ministry". They became the official interpreters of the Minister of the Age, effectively making them the ministers of the age. Accordingly, they have done what Lee did. They have ministered what Lee ministered. They have ruled with an iron fist as Lee ruled with and iron fist. And yes, they have loved as Lee loved.
-

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

So are we to believe that a few insincere deathbed confession words by Witness (in Chinese) were going to repair the damage of a half-century's worth of attacking, denigrating and insulting his brothers and sisters in Christ? I think not. Maybe better late than never? Well, the final judgment about this lies in the hands of him who holds our rewards.

What we do know for a fact is that this "admonition regarding love" had zero effect or impact on the hearts and minds of the Blended Brothers to be. In a few short years after Lee's passing, these men did their best to set in stone the legacy of Witness Lee and "the Ministry". They became the official interpreters of the Minister of the Age, effectively making them the ministers of the age. Accordingly, they have done what Lee did. They have ministered what Lee ministered. They have ruled with an iron fist as Lee ruled with and iron fist. And yes, they have loved as Lee loved.
-

Let me remind the listening audience that these Blendeds waited until they received $Millions from the Midwest saints for their LaPalma campus, and then expelled us, using some of our money to help file lawsuits against us to confiscate more LC assets.

Back to the deathbed confession.

What exactly was WL apologizing for? For us pathetic "moo cows" as the Blendeds told us? For the entirety of "poor, poor, Christianity" which he long had condemned? For his own behaviors? For what he did to John Ingalls and others? For raising rotten boys who abused the saints?

We will never know, will we? Because WL provided us with no details. It's kind of like interpreting inkblots -- just apply your own biased perceptions! How can any of them be "wrong?"

[Sons to Glory!]

I don't know about how sincere Lee's words were . . . . But I do find it curious that the Lord would plant me where He's had me for the last 20 years, in 1998, right after Lee's death. And what I almost immediately began to be impressed with here was the primacy of God's love to us. And that His love is really the key to unlocking scripture and God's eternal purpose, which is all toward us in Christ. I've shared many times that I saw so much more in the word in a very short time, based on seeing His love, than I did in the years in the Recovery!

(but one could also say that I had "film in the camera" - from the WL ministry - which just needed the light to make the real scene/picture come out)