OT versus NT God

Trapped · 04-08-2019, 01:46 AM

I came across an interesting theory online the other day to explain the OT God versus the NT God (wrathful vs merciful). I don't recall how I found the theory and thus can't find my way back to it at the moment, so I will probably butcher my retelling of it here, but I think I can get the point across.

Essentially, God in the Old Testament is the way He is because He doesn't "yet" know what it's like to be on earth with all its sufferings and limitations. (I say "yet" in quotes because "yet" only applies to time, which is problematic when talking about an eternal God). He is perfect and omniscient and gets discouraged by the squabbling murdering kids He created, and all He wants them to do is live the way He has told them to live because that is the best thing for them, and yet they refuse and do all kinds of horrible things. And God thinks, "well if I punish them, then they will listen". So He does, and the people don't listen. So he ups the punishment. Still doesn't work. So He sends floods and orders genocides, etc, etc. And we have the OT God that people have to reconcile with compared to the NT God.

But come the NT, God has incarnated and now knows firsthand what it's like to be on earth. Hence, we see the merciful God full of grace, compassion, and patience.

I mean, the God of the OT ordered killings. The God of the NT wept when someone died even though He knew He would raise them shortly. Talk about 180 degrees.

It's an interesting thought that gets my head spinning in a few directions.....for example, the issue of "He doesn't yet know" in my second paragraph. If the lamb of God was slain before the foundation of the world, then God would also already have the "knowing" what it's like to be a human before the foundation of the world too, which makes the theory fall apart because there is no such thing as "doesn't yet know".

On the other hand, if the theory is correct, in a sense it helps me rationalize the God who ordained or allowed Job's suffering in the OT.....basically because He didn't have direct experiential personal knowledge of the suffering He was allowing. But in the NT He experiences suffering, and heals those sick and suffering and releases the oppressed, because He now understands what it's like.

On the third hand, the "doesn't yet know" presents another issue related to God's omniscience. This will come out poorly, but.......okay, for this example, pretend I'm God. I create and build a bike. I know how the materials came together, I know how I assembled it. But does that mean I already know what it's like to ride the bike and feel the wind in my hair and the noise of that wind blowing past my ears and the burning in my legs as I go up a hill? If not, then I'm not omniscient. Or does omniscience extend to experience? If it doesn't extend to experience, then why would God have made air the way He did so that there is wind and wind resistance and friction, etc..... He had to have made it, and everything else, the way He did because He already knew how it all needed to operate and interact with everything else to give us the experience on this earth that we experience. Which means again that there is no "doesn't yet know".

Just wanted to throw that out there for any thoughts.

Ohio · 04-08-2019, 06:05 AM

I don't see this as a conflict. For me God is both a loving Father and a righteous Judge. His Law demands justice because His throne is established on righteousness. For those who would agree to His demands, He would accept the passion inflicted on His Only Begotten Son as payment in full for their sins.

But never think that there will be no more justice for mankind.

ZNPaaneah · 04-08-2019, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

I don't see this as a conflict. For me God is both a loving Father and a righteous Judge. His Law demands justice because His throne is established on righteousness. For those who would agree to His demands, He would accept the passion inflicted on His Only Begotten Son as payment in full for their sins.

But never think that there will be no more justice for mankind.

When a baby is born there is also the placenta that gets thrown out and burned along with all medical waste.

The birth of a baby is agrees fully with a loving father and also with a bloody mess.

04-08-2019, 01:46 AM	#1
Trapped Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 1,523	OT versus NT God I came across an interesting theory online the other day to explain the OT God versus the NT God (wrathful vs merciful). I don't recall how I found the theory and thus can't find my way back to it at the moment, so I will probably butcher my retelling of it here, but I think I can get the point across. Essentially, God in the Old Testament is the way He is because He doesn't "yet" know what it's like to be on earth with all its sufferings and limitations. (I say "yet" in quotes because "yet" only applies to time, which is problematic when talking about an eternal God). He is perfect and omniscient and gets discouraged by the squabbling murdering kids He created, and all He wants them to do is live the way He has told them to live because that is the best thing for them, and yet they refuse and do all kinds of horrible things. And God thinks, "well if I punish them, then they will listen". So He does, and the people don't listen. So he ups the punishment. Still doesn't work. So He sends floods and orders genocides, etc, etc. And we have the OT God that people have to reconcile with compared to the NT God. But come the NT, God has incarnated and now knows firsthand what it's like to be on earth. Hence, we see the merciful God full of grace, compassion, and patience. I mean, the God of the OT ordered killings. The God of the NT wept when someone died even though He knew He would raise them shortly. Talk about 180 degrees. It's an interesting thought that gets my head spinning in a few directions.....for example, the issue of "He doesn't yet know" in my second paragraph. If the lamb of God was slain before the foundation of the world, then God would also already have the "knowing" what it's like to be a human before the foundation of the world too, which makes the theory fall apart because there is no such thing as "doesn't yet know". On the other hand, if the theory is correct, in a sense it helps me rationalize the God who ordained or allowed Job's suffering in the OT.....basically because He didn't have direct experiential personal knowledge of the suffering He was allowing. But in the NT He experiences suffering, and heals those sick and suffering and releases the oppressed, because He now understands what it's like. On the third hand, the "doesn't yet know" presents another issue related to God's omniscience. This will come out poorly, but.......okay, for this example, pretend I'm God. I create and build a bike. I know how the materials came together, I know how I assembled it. But does that mean I already know what it's like to ride the bike and feel the wind in my hair and the noise of that wind blowing past my ears and the burning in my legs as I go up a hill? If not, then I'm not omniscient. Or does omniscience extend to experience? If it doesn't extend to experience, then why would God have made air the way He did so that there is wind and wind resistance and friction, etc..... He had to have made it, and everything else, the way He did because He already knew how it all needed to operate and interact with everything else to give us the experience on this earth that we experience. Which means again that there is no "doesn't yet know". Just wanted to throw that out there for any thoughts.

04-08-2019, 06:05 AM	#2
Ohio Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Greater Ohio Posts: 13,693	Re: OT versus NT God I don't see this as a conflict. For me God is both a loving Father and a righteous Judge. His Law demands justice because His throne is established on righteousness. For those who would agree to His demands, He would accept the passion inflicted on His Only Begotten Son as payment in full for their sins. But never think that there will be no more justice for mankind. __________________ Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!. Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!