Introduction from "A little brother"

Fuji, Thanks for your sharing. I share pretty much the same feelings of yours and it encourages me to share some of my thoughts for the first time in this forum.

I am currently still with the LC and so forgive me that I prefer to post anonymously.

I was saved in the LC some years ago and then left for a few years. Then I was back to the LC for the past several years. For all the time, I had doubts on the LC teachings especially the almost unbearable pride that pops up in many LC messages.

But somehow I was brought back to the LC a few years ago and I did not realize why until recently. What better place it is to undo the wrongs that I picked up from the LC than being with the LC and facing them again!

Before I was back, I was quite unaware that I was still judging others frequently in a so LC manner. When I was back, I go through the messages every week as others but spend much more time with the Bible to test things mentioned in the messages. I also spent time exploring other non-LC teachings. (My golden rule surviving in the LC - never let those overwhelming ministry messages, morning revivals and meetings eat away your own personal quality time with God and the Bible.)

The past few years were so fruitful that many fallacies in the messages became so apparent. It helped me to trace back to the roots of the "truth" and "practices" that I was taught from the very beginning. As many forum members here already knew, those teachings do not really have strong biblical support. So going through this process gradually helped to clean up those residues inside me (still work-in-progress to be exact, especially the pride).

But I still often feel the pain in my heart when seeing many brothers and sisters who eagerly seek God end up submerged in the LC teachings and sometimes say things not far from blasphemy from my own point of view.

So one of the reasons I still stay at LC is trying to influence the brothers and sisters to be more open minded and truly goes back to the Bible. Regrettably I don't seem to have any success. So I just hope I am playing a part to sew some seeds and one day those seeds may grow.

Sometimes, I think the LC leaders is kind of taking hostage the fellow saints. People who think differently may still stay and not to stand strongly against the leaders because of love to their fellow brothers and sisters and not wanting to hurt their feelings.

Up to this point, I still don't know for how long I will stay with LC. I can only pray that God will open the eyes of our brothers and sisters one day, and that He will continue to teach me to live out a life that is pleasing to Him.

Sorry about the lengthy post. Somehow I found lengthy post is not uncommon in this forum, probably because those words represent what we feel strongly about.

In Christ,
A little brother

[Fuji]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

So one of the reasons I still stay at LC is trying to influence the brothers and sisters to be more open minded and truly goes back to the Bible. Regrettably I don't seem to have any success. So I just hope I am playing a part to sew some seeds and one day those seeds may grow.

Dear brother,

Thank you so much for your sharing!
Believe it or not, this reason was also one of the major reasons why I decided to remain in the LC for a bit.

Actually, I do believe many saints in my area know their system has many flaws and problems, but choose to stay because they believe they can bit by bit bring changes to the ministry. I have a lot of respect for these saints. They were also the major reason why I could stay so long.

However, when I began to join more meetings and got to interact with more saints in other bigger events and other areas, I had little hope. The pride and exclusiveness drove me crazy. Many times I wanted to just stand up and leave.

And I too, stayed because partly I always carried the thought of "okay I can be like a bridge...sharing what I learned from LC to non-LC saints while showing LC saints that non-LC Christians are just as wonderful". I know it sounds naive but it really was one of my biggest motivations.

I support the saints who remain in LC because they believe they can bring change if they feel it's the Lord's calling. Draw from His strength! However, if you feel led to leave, don't be scared. Be bold and bring the good fruit you have got from LC to share with other believers. I too took awhile to leave my "judgmental" manner behind. My one advice is always "be nothing and let Christ be everything. Let Him increase and forget about yourself". If you always have the mind of "but I AM something"! Or "I do have something more special to offer", you may end up craving for people's approval or a special status (this I believe is one major blind-spot for LC and it sometimes leads to bitterness) and it will be a hard transition for you if you carry this thought. Since you are saved in the LC, LC may have given you many presumptions on what "church" ought to look like - but stay open-minded and take brother Neil's advice: focus on Christ and the Church will come out :-).

Brother - you are no "little" brother... you words show a lot of maturity than many...may the Lord continue to lead us to be absolute to Him and not to men. Looking forward to more fellowship.

Originally Posted by Fuji

However, when I began to join more meetings and got to interact with more saints in other bigger events and other areas, I had little hope. The pride and exclusiveness drove me crazy. Many times I wanted to just stand up and leave.

Same for me. I don't recall exactly when but I think I did actually walked out from a meeting once. So another LC survival rule for myself is to avoid going to those meetings in the first place.

Originally Posted by Fuji

And I too, stayed because partly I always carried the thought of "okay I can be like a bridge...sharing what I learned from LC to non-LC saints while showing LC saints that non-LC Christians are just as wonderful". I know it sounds naive but it really was one of my biggest motivations.

Thanks. This is the encouragement I need - I am not alone and there are other brothers and sisters trying to make a difference.

Originally Posted by Fuji

I support the saints who remain in LC because they believe they can bring change if they feel it's the Lord's calling. Draw from His strength! However, if you feel led to leave, don't be scared.

I do have a certain level of faith that I'll be ready to leave without fear when the time comes though I don't have the slightest idea where to go next. You know what? I actually got Brother Lee's approval (not that I really need it) for leaving. In Ch.38, "Life-Study of 1, 2, 3 John, Jude",

"If someone does not want to go along with the church, it is better for that one not to be involved with the church."
(We know that when he says "the church", it is nothing else but LC.)

Originally Posted by Fuji

If you always have the mind of "but I AM something"! Or "I do have something more special to offer", you may end up craving for people's approval or a special status (this I believe is one major blind-spot for LC and it sometimes leads to bitterness) and it will be a hard transition for you if you carry this thought.

Great reminder! Pride is probably the single most difficult barrier that every Christian faces. The risk of falling into the trap becomes even higher as one grows spiritually and receives more light from God. I am thankful that God put a perfect (perfectly bad) example in front of me as a warning (what else but the LC). I have to constantly go back to Andrew Murray's prayer of humility (and also keep reminding myself don't be proud of "being" humble):

"I pray that of Your great goodness, You would make known to me, and take from my heart, every kind and form and degree of pride, whether it be from evil spirits, or my own corrupt nature; and that You would awaken in me the deepest depth and truth of the humility that can make me capable of Your light and Holy Spirit."

Interestingly, since you raised this topic, in this spring's training for elders and responsible ones, there are messages like:

"According to the New Testament, anyone who seeks glory of men is a follower of Satan. The seeking of glory is a trap spread by Satan to snare Christian workers. Therefore, it is very important that all Christian workers learn to avoid the snare of glory-seeking. However, not many have escaped this trap. How much we shall be used by the Lord and how long our usefulness will last depend on whether we seek glory of men. If we seek glory, our usefulness in the hand of the Lord is finished. The seeking of glory for the self always kills one’s usefulness. Therefore, may we all, especially the young, be warned never to seek glory in the Lord’s work."

So there is truth in the words, only that we need to consider who speaks. Jesus nailed it in Mat 23:3.

"Therefore all that they tell you, do and keep; but do not do according to their works, for they say things and do not do them."

(Well, may be except the word "all". The teachers of the law and the Pharisees actually did better than what we have here today.)

Last but not least, let me share one more LC survival rule - Amidst the pain that we need to endure from time to time, don't stop ourselves from having some fun.

Let me share a true story.

Two of the blending brothers were visiting a city. During a meal, a sister there asked the brothers what was their most important testimony after all these years in the Lord's Recovery. Those two BBs seemed not to have listened. They just bent down their heads eating and gave no response. So after a moment of embarrassing silence, the sister pressed on and asked the question again. One BB then replied, "Sister, what you asked is a very personal question! I will not tell you, blah blah blah...". Soon the other BB joined in, "Each of us should have a very intimate and private relationship with God. You know, it is very private, like between husband and wife. Not something to go testify and promote publicly everywhere, blah blah blah..."

May be there were some spiritual depths in the blah blah blahs, but I couldn't help laughing from my heart seeing these words on privacy from people who promote the enjoyment of Christ in the corporate body.

And I had a second good LOL just yesterday go through old posts in this forum and discovered that exactly one of the BB was mentioned as in "Have you seen somebody so spiritually constipated in your entire life?".

[Nell]

This reminded me of the "most important testimony" given in the Church in Houston in the "early days" by a brother in his late 20's.

He testified that recently he had missed a meeting. Something you JUST DON'T DO. He chose instead to go to the Houston Zoo. He felt guilty about it, but was feeling somewhat rebellious and did it anyway.

At one point he was standing at the gorilla exhibit and apparently the gorillas were pretty close to the people who were watching. As animals are likely to do, the closest gorilla to the errant brother decided it was time to relieve himself. To keep things tidy I suppose, the gorilla chose to capture his droppings in his own hand (paw?). When he was finished, he drew back his hand and delivered a 90 MPH "fastball" at the brother which was ruled a "hit by pitch" in the brother's chest.

Immediately brother X was certain that he was "caught" and was being punished for missing the meeting. Why he decided to "confess" his indiscretion in the meeting was unclear. This was not lost on those in attendance at the hearing of the "testimony." However, the attendees were too busy rolling on the floor to notice.

He cleaned himself up as best he could and began to scurry toward the zoo exit. As he made his way out, there to greet him were news cameras from a large Houston TV station. They had gotten wind of the gorilla story and rushed to the zoo to cover it. A slow news night I guess.

Of course, brother X was not only mortifed by getting pummeled by gorilla poop, but it was being covered by the news media...all because he missed the meeting. Everybody in Houston would know.

Then he remembered...not only is everyone he knows in the meeting, but they are not allowed to OWN TV's much less WATCH TV. So he's safe. No problem...until he gave a "testimony" about it in the meeting.

So the moral of this story is...God has a sense of humor. And, sometimes you need to go to the zoo to get the message. Don't take things too seriously or you might miss something really important at the zoo.

Nell

[aron]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Before I was back, I was quite unaware that I was still judging others frequently in a so LC manner. When I was back, I go through the messages every week as others but spend much more time with the Bible to test things mentioned in the messages. I also spent time exploring other non-LC teachings. . .

The past few years were so fruitful that many fallacies in the messages became so apparent. It helped me to trace back to the roots of the "truth" and "practices" that I was taught from the very beginning. As many forum members here already knew, those teachings do not really have strong biblical support. . .

The person who leaves physically still has their brain pickled in LC brine, and the best way to get it out is to soak your brain in good solid Christian writings. Read Catholics, read the Fathers, read the Wesleyans and Baptists and the Orthodox. Especially, read the ones who read the ones. Just read. Then go back to the Bible and try to see what they see.

Actually Watchman Nee did just that. He read something like 3,000 books. But Witness Lee told us in so many words, not to bother. Nee had already read them all! Just focus on 'the ministry'.

No, a thousand times no. Focus on Jesus Christ, revealed in the Word, and those people who also are (there's an unbroken string of them reaching back) will be your guides to the Word. That is the flock, pure and simple. "In many counselors there is safety." Proverbs says that three times.

And i want to follow these comments with a good post from an unrelated thread, about reading Christian writers. it's worth reading.

Originally Posted by OBW

I think we forget that until only fairly recently, most of the average population couldn't read anything. There was a reason that Jesus called a group, and singled out 12 of those as they all followed along. In the end, a few were given to regular study and teaching while the rest learned and lived by what they learned. It was part of that first church in which they devoted themselves to certain things, one of which the apostles' teaching in the temple.

Even Paul did not write to the various churches to point out to them the truths that they had gleaned from their personal studies. It was always in reference to what he or others taught them. Or to be on the watch for people teaching different/inconsistent from/with what they first learned. This "self feeding" idea is only partly sound. There is always a need for those who have learned from those who have learned from . . . . You get the picture. While the RCC's claim of a direct link to Peter is a contrived thing much like the doctrine of dirt, there really is a link to the original.

But now that virtually everyone can read the Bible, we think that we should be primarily responsible for figuring it out for ourselves. We are so enamored with this notion that we can get along without teachers/preachers. But we can't. We wouldn't agree enough to meet with anyone but ourselves if we were left to our own devices. And based on some comments that come through occasionally, some of us are barely tolerating that evil clergy-laity system that rules even the congregation we are sort of a part of (kind of rhymes).

Surely we should be reading the word if we are capable of it. But it should mostly be within a framework of teaching that comes from someone(s) else. I think that Paul's discussions with various churches, most notably Corinth, sort of underscores this. In 1 Corinthians 3 he intentionally separates the teachers (workers/builders) from the farm/building. That does not make us not workers at any level. But we work according to what the Workers teach us. Stated another way, there are some apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds, and teachers for the perfecting of the saints. In other words, the saints are not self-teaching.

I do not say that we should not "self-feed" but that it is within the framework of what we are taught. It is not the source of our teaching, but the support of it.

Despite the kind of mentality that we got from the LRC to be self-feeding toward our own perfection, note that even there it was targeted to underscore the "ministry" of Lee. We were told one thing in clear words but a different thing in many veiled words that made us just like everyone else. Even they are reading to strengthen the teaching they are given.

Their problem is not that they do not read/study in the right way. It is that they are learning from some whose work will not stand the test of fire. I do not say that they do not suffer for it. But the main one(s) to suffer will be those that teach it. No matter how "off the mark" we think Lee and the LRC are, they are Christian and most of them are diligently obedient to their leadership. They just didn't realize that their leaders came into the sheep pen "over the fence." Not through the gate. And they managed to steal a few sheep. Some of those are earthly family to me.

Most of us should be reading and "self-feeding" based on an underpinning of someone else's teaching. Even those who would be teachers are taught by others before them. There really is a link to the start. And it doesn't have funny names like "recovery" or "apostolic succession."

Just read. Read, read, read. Then you will be fed, and be able to feed others. And the errors will be more clearly seen. And the path will open before you.

[Fuji]

Originally Posted by A little brother

Great reminder! Pride is probably the single most difficult barrier that every Christian faces. The risk of falling into the trap becomes even higher as one grows spiritually and receives more light from God. I am thankful that God put a perfect (perfectly bad) example in front of me as a warning (what else but the LC). I have to constantly go back to Andrew Murray's prayer of humility (and also keep reminding myself don't be proud of "being" humble).

Brother, Andrew Murray's little book called "Humility" is in fact one of my favourite books. I came across it in a local Salvation Army bookstore after leaving LC and when I read it, I couldn't keep rethinking what I went through in LC (and of course cases outside of LC too). It is pride that keeps us from seeing more of the Lord. Many Christian leaders in the past and today are so not immune to pride but yes, these are great lessons for us to learn from!

You mentioned that you don't know where you'd go next. That was the case for me too. However do walk by faith! I didn't know where I'd go but somehow very quickly the Lord led me to a place where I am now learning so much and at the same time get to serve. Again, it's a place that I really didn't expect myself to get into if you just look at it outwardly, but wow, in this place, the Lord has shown me so much. Anyways, I'm thankful for the Lord's provision. It often surprises us. The Christ in each one is so precious, may the Lord bring you to a place where there is mutual shepherding!

With your message it seems like you are a "responsible brother"? I hope that when you leave you will be have little burden and will still be received in love by them. Because it does seem like it's harder for responsible ones to leave ...but His yoke is easy and His burden is light . Where the spirit of the Lord is there is freedom. May you follow the Spirit's leading and we will pray for you!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Fuji

Dear brother,

Thank you so much for your sharing!
Believe it or not, this reason was also one of the major reasons why I decided to remain in the LC for a bit.

Actually, I do believe many saints in my area know their system has many flaws and problems, but choose to stay because they believe they can bit by bit bring changes to the ministry. I have a lot of respect for these saints. They were also the major reason why I could stay so long.

However, when I began to join more meetings and got to interact with more saints in other bigger events and other areas, I had little hope. The pride and exclusiveness drove me crazy. Many times I wanted to just stand up and leave.

And I too, stayed because partly I always carried the thought of "okay I can be like a bridge...sharing what I learned from LC to non-LC saints while showing LC saints that non-LC Christians are just as wonderful". I know it sounds naive but it really was one of my biggest motivations.

I support the saints who remain in LC because they believe they can bring change if they feel it's the Lord's calling. Draw from His strength! However, if you feel led to leave, don't be scared. Be bold and bring the good fruit you have got from LC to share with other believers. I too took awhile to leave my "judgmental" manner behind. My one advice is always "be nothing and let Christ be everything. Let Him increase and forget about yourself". If you always have the mind of "but I AM something"! Or "I do have something more special to offer", you may end up craving for people's approval or a special status (this I believe is one major blind-spot for LC and it sometimes leads to bitterness) and it will be a hard transition for you if you carry this thought. Since you are saved in the LC, LC may have given you many presumptions on what "church" ought to look like - but stay open-minded and take brother Neil's advice: focus on Christ and the Church will come out :-).

Brother - you are no "little" brother... you words show a lot of maturity than many...may the Lord continue to lead us to be absolute to Him and not to men. Looking forward to more fellowship.

Fuji, thanks for this post, it is definitely on the mark.

Many of us in the "greater Ohio area" watched for years how LSM got further and further from the Lord, from the Bible, from the truth, and from righteousness. Because of Titus Chu's admiration for W. Lee, very little was said before he passed away. In fact, Titus Chu basically turned a blind eye to all of Lee's failings, choosing to blame his subordinates for numerous ministry disasters, rather than the source himself.

Numerous attempts were made by Ohio brothers to effect positive change after Lee's passing. The Blendeds viewed all these endeavors with suspicion, deciding rather to work behind the scenes to strengthen their base until the time was right to cut off Titus Chu and any others who refused to bow to their many whims.

Instead of seeking the Lord thru prayer in His word, the Blended leadership decided to use rotten politics, deceitful lawyering, and false teachings to oust Titus Chu at their Kangaroo Court in Whistler Canada. So much for all the spiritual attempts to improve and reform the Recovery of its many ills. After the Ohio region was cut off, then the Blendeds did the same to Brazil.

Church history tells us there is no hope to restore such aberrant systems, which once were part of the body of Christ. His seekers in these systems either stay and turn a blind eye, or they decide to leave. Some stay because their LC has precious saints who are not overly influenced by LSM.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by A little brother

"Have you seen somebody so spiritually constipated in your entire life?".

Originally Posted by Nell

This reminded me of the "most important testimony" given in the Church in Houston in the "early days" by a brother in his late 20's.

He testified that recently he had missed a meeting. Something you JUST DON'T DO. He chose instead to go to the Houston Zoo. He felt guilty about it, but was feeling somewhat rebellious and did it anyway.

At one point he was standing at the gorilla exhibit and apparently the gorillas were pretty close to the people who were watching. As animals are likely to do, the closest gorilla to the errant brother decided it was time to relieve himself. To keep things tidy I suppose, the gorilla chose to capture his droppings in his own hand (paw?). When he was finished, he drew back his hand and delivered a 90 MPH "fastball" at the brother which was ruled a "hit by pitch" in the brother's chest.

Immediately brother X was certain that he was "caught" and was being punished for missing the meeting. Why he decided to "confess" his indiscretion in the meeting was unclear. This was not lost on those in attendance at the hearing of the "testimony." However, the attendees were too busy rolling on the floor to notice.

He cleaned himself up as best he could and began to scurry toward the zoo exit. As he made his way out, there to greet him were news cameras from a large Houston TV station. They had gotten wind of the gorilla story and rushed to the zoo to cover it. A slow news night I guess.

Of course, brother X was not only mortifed by getting pummeled by gorilla poop, but it was being covered by the news media...all because he missed the meeting. Everybody in Houston would know.

Then he remembered...not only is everyone he knows in the meeting, but they are not allowed to OWN TV's much less WATCH TV. So he's safe. No problem...until he gave a "testimony" about it in the meeting.

So the moral of this story is...God has a sense of humor. And, sometimes you need to go to the zoo to get the message. Don't take things too seriously or you might miss something really important at the zoo.

Nell

Nell, I guess we really did evolve from gorillas!

Great story. I guess we all have a different interpretation of what it all meant.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Instead of seeking the Lord thru prayer in His word, the Blended leadership decided to use rotten politics, deceitful lawyering, and false teachings to oust Titus Chu at their Kangaroo Court in Whistler Canada. So much for all the spiritual attempts to improve and reform the Recovery of its many ills. After the Ohio region was cut off, then the Blendeds did the same to Brazil.

Truth shows the blendeds tried and failed to undermine the Church in Toronto. Speaking about Whistler, I'm curious how many on the forum have ever been there. It's north of Vancouver, B.C. I had never been until a few years following T.C.'s kangaroo court. I was rather surprised why this venue was chosen for a conference. For one, it's not very easy to get to and two, it's basically a ski resort town.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Fuji

Brother, Andrew Murray's little book called "Humility" is in fact one of my favourite books. I came across it in a local Salvation Army bookstore after leaving LC and when I read it, I couldn't keep rethinking what I went through in LC (and of course cases outside of LC too). It is pride that keeps us from seeing more of the Lord. Many Christian leaders in the past and today are so not immune to pride but yes, these are great lessons for us to learn from!

You know Fuji when it comes to humility versus pride, one's heart is very much affected whether one is humble or proud. Within the context of the local churches, my thought for quite sometime is the doctrine/teaching of deputy authority/delegated authority results in a prideful heart. Distinctions are created where one as a deputy/delegated authority doesn't have to apologize to anyone for anything. Having had this discussion with a so-called "delegated authority", accountability is only to the Lord and not to one another.

How does one remain humble? Scripture aside, I would suggest never being above repentance nor refusing reconciliation.

Originally Posted by Nell

So the moral of this story is...God has a sense of humor. And, sometimes you need to go to the zoo to get the message. Don't take things too seriously or you might miss something really important at the zoo.
Nell

Nell, you just gave me an important lesson. And praise the Lord, He certainly has a sense of humor.

Believe it or not, I had a very similar experience in a zoo many years ago. I was taking photos of a gorilla when it suddenly threw mud at me. Probably if I dig deep into my photo archive, I can still find that photo taken before the mud hit my camera. Well, I thought it was mud all these years. Now you have made me think twice and worry a bit.

But the worry didn't trouble me for long. My lessons learned:

(1) That gorilla was long gone. That stain it gave me was washed away long ago. Whether it was mud or poop makes no difference to me now, even though sometimes I might be unexpectedly reminded of that piece of history again.

(2) Gorillas like to throw things at people, so don't stay too close.

(3) People are still being hit today by other gorillas. They may think it is just a bit of mud and can be tolerated. We should probably warn them to think twice so they will wash away the stain sooner.

Originally Posted by Terry

You know Fuji when it comes to humility versus pride, one's heart is very much affected whether one is humble or proud. Within the context of the local churches, my thought for quite sometime is the doctrine/teaching of deputy authority/delegated authority results in a prideful heart. Distinctions are created where one as a deputy/delegated authority doesn't have to apologize to anyone for anything. Having had this discussion with a so-called "delegated authority", accountability is only to the Lord and not to one another.

How does one remain humble? Scripture aside, I would suggest never being above repentance nor refusing reconciliation.

Terry, humility and pride are states of mind to me. Even the most humble mind can and will become proud all of a sudden from time to time (probably until the day we finally meet our Lord face to face).

And many teachings in the LC make it easy for pride to creep in - Teachings like "God needs man to complete His economy. If WE do not do it, the Lord CANNOT return." and "there is NO LACK OF truth in the Lord's Recovery, it is just how we put it into practice.". Just to name a few.

Luke 17:10 gives me a very good reminder - "So also you, when you do all the things which are ordered you, say, We are unprofitable slaves; we have done what we ought to have done. "

[aron]

Originally Posted by A little brother

Luke 17:10 gives me a very good reminder

Luke 17:10 is an outstanding verse. Again and again the Lord told the disciples to take the least place, and not presume any position before God. While we're yet in the flesh of sin, any presumption is folly.

One day I saw that the gap between me and the most sniveling, putrid mess of humanity out on the street is probably less than the gap between me and God. If I show mercy, I'll be shown mercy. If I judge, I'll be judged. If I lift myself up, I'll be thrown down. Pretty simple, really.

[aron]

Originally Posted by aron

Just read. Read, read, read. Then you will be fed, and be able to feed others. And the errors will be more clearly seen. And the path will open before you.

Another thing that helped me, a lot, was reading current research on Christianity in China, as well as Chinese history. In the LC we got all our information from LSM, and it was biased to say the least. So the more you read, the more your understanding opens up.

A lot of what you currently see in the LC isn'tt biblical but cultural. Asian culture isn't more evil, per se, than Western. But we accepted it reflexively, without critical examination, as if it were straight from God. It wasn't.

"There's only one spiritual giant per age, and now the age has turned and there are no more spiritual giants; it's now the age of small potatoes." Where did that idea come from? The Bible? No, from culture. It's conducive to the continuation of the Hive mentality which that culture engenders.

If you start to get discernment then you'll get discernment on how to help people, heal and feed them. And you'll be preserved from being a discouraged member or a bitter, confused and alienated ex-member. As I said, the path will open before you.

Aron, Thanks for your advice on reading. I am trying to do a bit of both - reading lots of books and not reading lots of books. I have to make sure I spend enough time to go back to the Bible, the sole origin of all other good spiritual books. I also find it important to ask good questions in the first place. As it is stated, asked and it will be given to you, seek and you will find. Sometimes, I am amazed by how my questions were wonderfully answered from the Word of God.

Originally Posted by aron

If you start to get discernment then you'll get discernment on how to help people, heal and feed them. And you'll be preserved from being a discouraged member or a bitter, confused and alienated ex-member. As I said, the path will open before you.

Admittedly I do feel discouraged and even angry from time to time in the LC. But looking at the bright side, the difficult environment drives me to seek more earnestly the truth from our Lord and the way to convey the truth to others. I think it gives me more spiritual growth than staying in a comfort zone.

[UntoHim]

Hey A little brother, thanks for all your insightful posts. When you get a chance, shoot an email over to LocalChurchDisussions@Gmail.Com requesting membership to the Forum. This will allow your posts to appear directly on the Forum without the delay of going through the moderation que. I have reserved the UserName "A little brother" for you. As soon as your email is received I'll shoot you out a temporary password.
-

[Nell]

Originally Posted by A little brother

Nell, you just gave me an important lesson. And praise the Lord, He certainly has a sense of humor.

Believe it or not, I had a very similar experience in a zoo many years ago. I was taking photos of a gorilla when it suddenly threw mud at me. Probably if I dig deep into my photo archive, I can still find that photo taken before the mud hit my camera. Well, I thought it was mud all these years. Now you have made me think twice and worry a bit.

But the worry didn't trouble me for long. My lessons learned:

(1) That gorilla was long gone. That stain it gave me was washed away long ago. Whether it was mud or poop makes no difference to me now, even though sometimes I might be unexpectedly reminded of that piece of history again.

(2) Gorillas like to throw things at people, so don't stay too close.

(3) People are still being hit today by other gorillas. They may think it is just a bit of mud and can be tolerated. We should probably warn them to think twice so they will wash away the stain sooner.

Uh-oh. I may be in trouble.

However, from you and Ohio, I realize that this little story is so much deeper than I realized...something for everybody.

After reading your deep insightful wisdom, it occurs to me that if it smells like poop, it probably is. Or, "if it poops like a duck..."

Keep the sniff test handy.

Nell

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Nell, I guess we really did evolve from gorillas!

Great story. I guess we all have a different interpretation of what it all meant.

No doubt.

Nell

[A little brother]

Ran into these verses today. So the "lepers" in some peoples' eyes can be better used by God than a captain somehow...

2 Kings 7:8 So when these lepers came to the edge of the camp, they entered one tent and began to eat and drink. And they took silver and gold and clothing from there, and went and hid And they went back and entered another tent and took from there and went and hid

2 Kings 7:9 Then they said to one another, We are not doing right. This day is a day of good tidings, and we remain silent. If we delay until the morning's light, our iniquity will find us out. Now therefore, come and let us go and tell the king's household.