These days

Still lurking here, reading trying to reconcile what I read with what I've known and see presently. And my question is this; A lot of the problems here seem to be with what's happened in the past, and while I in no way think we should just move on as has recently been suggested, I do what what's happening around the LC movement/denomination presently. Are there things still going on, especially with respect to the so called blended brothers? There is a lot of talk here about power, but to what end? RK and any other of the blendeds, what is their real power? Are they getting rich of their work? Who is benefitting from the power and HOW is it really wielded today?
Thanks in advance,

A brother in faith.

[OBW]

You are correct that the BBs are not getting rich off of the LRC or even the LSM. But in too many cases it is their livelihood. That and direct donations/support from individuals for them to do things like go to Russia.

And if that were all that was going on, I might disagree doctrinally with some of the stuff, but I would have no complaint. But the way that they treat the membership as captives to their system, it makes them their piggy-bank, even if it is not a large one.

The real problem is the undercurrent (which sometimes rises to the surface) of controlling actions and teachings. The leadership is supposed to encourage the membership to grow. To learn. To seek after God. But when that encouragement is coupled with a limited spiritual diet and veiled threats of spiritual loss, or worse, possible harm or death for using any source besides the one that pays their salaries, their position as acceptable teachers in any church is called into question.

Unfortunately, since so many of us left some time back, we only have what we know and saw. We get reports of more current things, but it is sometimes limited. Yet the pattern emerging is that what is happening now has happened before. So looking at the past is not just about prior bad acts, but a look at the very character of the LRC's leadership and its theology.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Still lurking here, reading trying to reconcile what I read with what I've known and see presently. And my question is this; A lot of the problems here seem to be with what's happened in the past, and while I in no way think we should just move on as has recently been suggested, I do what what's happening around the LC movement/denomination presently. Are there things still going on, especially with respect to the so called blended brothers? There is a lot of talk here about power, but to what end? RK and any other of the blendeds, what is their real power? Are they getting rich of their work? Who is benefitting from the power and HOW is it really wielded today?
Thanks in advance,

A brother in faith.

Power is more seductive than money. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Power is more seductive than money. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

That's it? Everyone knows that. I don't see how that's an answer to my questions...

I want to know how they wield power, exactly, and to what end--today. Not how they have done it. I've read the posts here. It makes me sad to think that these things happened. I want to know, because I don't see it, how the blendeds are hurting the church now, directly. For example, what are they speaking now? How are they exercising control now? And any other examples ones might have...
Thanks.

A brother in faith.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Are there things still going on, especially with respect to the so called blended brothers?
There is a lot of talk here about power, but to what end?


A brother in faith.

If you can listen to conference audios. You'll hear as I have verbally backtracking in respect to Witness Lee. You'll hear at least Ron Kangas speak a good word, but is it being lived out? When Ron spoke on the Kingdom Principle of Relationships, has he been able to exhibit forgiveness? It's between Ron and the Lord.
Are the saints really buying into what the Blendeds are speaking at regional conferences and bi-annual trainings?
You can talk about power, but being leaders of a Christian publishing company, has that caused them to mute their conscience and increased their pride?
IMHO, generally, pride among the blendeds has increased to such an extent it's just too hard to be humble.

Originally Posted by Terry

If you can listen to conference audios. You'll hear as I have verbally backtracking in respect to Witness Lee. You'll hear at least Ron Kangas speak a good word, but is it being lived out? When Ron spoke on the Kingdom Principle of Relationships, has he been able to exhibit forgiveness? It's between Ron and the Lord.
Are the saints really buying into what the Blendeds are speaking at regional conferences and bi-annual trainings?
You can talk about power, but being leaders of a Christian publishing company, has that caused them to mute their conscience and increased their pride?
IMHO, generally, pride among the blendeds has increased to such an extent it's just too hard to be humble.

As you said, forgiveness is between Ron Kangas and the Lord. I won't even touch that...

Yes, I think brothers and sisters are buying into what's being said in the conferences and trainings. It's very easy to listen and be told what the Bible says and what it means and feel that now you know something deeper because when you read the Bible you didn't see it, but thank God someone did...Regarding this, I think many people just don't spend enough time with the Lord and His word (myself included) and so never really let the Word dwell in them, never let it sink in. People are so used to understanding snippets, headlines, texts, tweets and what have you quickly that a verse or a series of verses present quite a challenge...what better way to meet that challenge than sitting in a chair and having everything "explained" to you...

As far as pride...I can see that coming from having brothers and sisters listen to your words all the time, buy the morning revivals you put together, and help with the projects you deem necessary... I just don't know and sometimes don't want to know what goes on behind the scenes...(a place that should even exists as far as I'm concerned) so I can't really see how they have any real power...Are the elders of each locality under them in some way, any more so than we should all be under each other, humbly caring for and and being cared for one another?

It seems strange that there is a cadre out there listening with a drinking glass up against the wall for any contrary words, and hint of questioning...

A brother in faith

[bookworm]

Originally Posted by OBW

You are correct that the BBs are not getting rich off of the LRC or even the LSM. But in too many cases it is their livelihood. That and direct donations/support from individuals for them to do things like go to Russia.

And if that were all that was going on, I might disagree doctrinally with some of the stuff, but I would have no complaint. But the way that they treat the membership as captives to their system, it makes them their piggy-bank, even if it is not a large one.

The real problem is the undercurrent (which sometimes rises to the surface) of controlling actions and teachings. The leadership is supposed to encourage the membership to grow. To learn. To seek after God. But when that encouragement is coupled with a limited spiritual diet and veiled threats of spiritual loss, or worse, possible harm or death for using any source besides the one that pays their salaries, their position as acceptable teachers in any church is called into question.

Unfortunately, since so many of us left some time back, we only have what we know and saw. We get reports of more current things, but it is sometimes limited. Yet the pattern emerging is that what is happening now has happened before. So looking at the past is not just about prior bad acts, but a look at the very character of the LRC's leadership and its theology.

"Unregistered guest" I note you have not responded to this excellent post by OBW. The problem is the very character of the Local Church leadership and its theology, the way the leadership controls members. This is why they still "fish" on college campuses for idealistic young people. My concern is for the methods they use to draw these young people into what they present as something "pure" and "not of religion" when in reality the Local Church is something that demands absolute loyalty to their one source and one so-called ministry and in so doing alienates these young people from the Christian Community as a whole and quite often from the love of their natural family members. This is still ongoing.

Originally Posted by bookworm

" My concern is for the methods they use to draw these young people into what they present as something "pure" and "not of religion" when in reality the Local Church is something that demands absolute loyalty to their one source and one so-called ministry and in so doing alienates these young people from the Christian Community as a whole and quite often from the love of their natural family members. .

I do see this and it is concerning the way they are pulled from whatever Christian background (if any) they have and immediately or as soon as possible "inoculated." There is no attempt to simply enjoy the Lord together with any new ones unless it is done exclusively with the LRC. Of course there are exceptions, and of course the LC will give Christianity lip service, "there are other genuine believers out there, our brothers and sisters, etc" but when it comes down to it...there is to me no real freedom as far as meeting with those outside, enjoying the Lord with those outside, etc. Unless of course it's with the view of bringing them into the LC...

I didn't respond to OBW as I pretty much agree with him...Other that what I've just stated above and the fact that those in the LC find it necessary to belittle those believers not meeting with them I can't really point to what exactly bothers me about their beliefs...the MOA thing has calmed down as I as I can tell, and I don't really sense any control being exerted over the locality where I am...aside from the Morning Revival and footnotes almost replacing the Bible....

All there is to do is lead everyone to the Word, both those in the LC and those outside...it's the only salvation.
A brother in faith

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

That's it? Everyone knows that. I don't see how that's an answer to my questions...

I want to know how they wield power, exactly, and to what end--today. Not how they have done it. I've read the posts here. It makes me sad to think that these things happened. I want to know, because I don't see it, how the blendeds are hurting the church now, directly. For example, what are they speaking now? How are they exercising control now? And any other examples ones might have...
Thanks.

A brother in faith.

Sounds like you're asking the chef how he made a great meal, but don't want to hear about any of the ingredients he used.

You say you want to know how they wield power, but not how they have done it. The way they wield power is by how they have done it. Yesterday's exhibition of power and abuse creates today's fear and intimidation in their members.

How are the blendeds exercising control today? Firstly by making all the local leaders suspicious of one another and watching one another to make sure that none of them teaches "differently" from what is provided by headquarters. The program thrives on man-pleasing, and any liberty we have as followers of the Lord is viewed as "being independent."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

As far as pride...I can see that coming from having brothers and sisters listen to your words all the time, buy the morning revivals you put together, and help with the projects you deem necessary... I just don't know and sometimes don't want to know what goes on behind the scenes...(a place that should even exists as far as I'm concerned) so I can't really see how they have any real power...Are the elders of each locality under them in some way, any more so than we should all be under each other, humbly caring for and and being cared for one another?

Brother in faith, you have said a lot here, starting with PRIDE. Pride fuels the entire system of exclusivism -- "what we have is the best, and only we have the goods, and all the rest have failed miserably."

Next is the system of teaching and distribution of teachings which insulates all the members from the word of God by providing for them the "interpreted word."

Third is defining which "projects" in the Recovery are worthwhile, even on a local level, and which are not, thus preventing any support for brothers who don't "play" by their rules.

Fourth is not letting the members know what really goes on "behind the scenes" -- maintaining a system of error that spins the facts, and destroys the reputations of "whistleblower" prophets.

It seems you are seeing the ingredients, but not yet understanding how they operate to provide great power to the leaders in Anaheim.

Ohio, It's not that I don't want to hear about the ingredients (nor even that I think this is a "great meal"), I've just read all about them here. I wanted to know, and your second post addresses this, how it's being done now.

I see a few main problems with the LC (I am a current member). The greatest of which is the "we're the best" nonsense. It's sad, and more than that I think it's just as damaging to those outside the LC as it is to its members.

I've found book and authors outside the LSM system too helpful to believe that we have the highest (read only/best) revelation. I've long since stopped reading the more often than not unhelpful morning revival. ( I think it survives as a way to keep some semblance of oneness. When everyone is reading the same book you feel a part of something..sad that the Bible isn't enough for some).

Thanks for all the responses. I'll certainly stick around here on the forum
awhile longer...

A brother in faith