Is Baptism the Requirement for Salvation?

[WitnessMe]

When I joined the local church, the saints urged me to get baptized before believing in Christ. They said that getting baptized is to bury your old self, leave the world of satan and enter into Christ. Is what they say biblical?

I did get baptized before really believe in Christ.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by WitnessMe

When I joined the local church, the saints urged me to get baptized before believing in Christ. They said that getting baptized is to bury your old self, leave the world of satan and enter into Christ. Is what they say biblical?

I did get baptized before really believe in Christ.

Salvation is a huge topic in the scripture. It's like the word "law." It's precise meaning is determined by the context. Many consider "salvation" as their ticket to "heaven." Others apply "salvation" to John 3.16 which actually says "shall not perish and receive eternal life."

Baptism, however, is the answer to a good conscience. I Peter 1.21 "And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

So, in simplicity, YES baptism saves us, and is needed for salvation, not salvation from our sins, not salvation from the burning lake, but salvation from this world and its coming judgment by God.

[bearbear]

Originally Posted by WitnessMe

When I joined the local church, the saints urged me to get baptized before believing in Christ. They said that getting baptized is to bury your old self, leave the world of satan and enter into Christ. Is what they say biblical?

I did get baptized before really believe in Christ.

The practice of my church is to baptize only after one has made a firm commitment to believe and follow Jesus.

Romans 6:3-4
"Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."

Baptism is an outward expression of an inward change caused by being born again whereby one dies to their old life to take on a new one in Christ.

I got baptized after believing in Jesus as a child but it was only very late into adulthood that I gave my life to Jesus and made a firm decision to die to my old life to live a new one in Christ. I've been considering re-baptism as well and plan to talk to my pastor about it.

If you're meeting at a new church this is something you can speak to your pastor about and also pray and ask God to see if it is his will for you to be re-baptized.

Also there's a good video on baptism I recently saw by David Bercot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-BiqieKyd4

[WitnessMe]

But the saints in local church always want you to get baptized before you you make a firm commitment to believe Jesus. This was how I got baptized.

[bearbear]

Originally Posted by WitnessMe

But the saints in local church always want you to get baptized before you you make a firm commitment to believe Jesus. This was how I got baptized.

Are you still meeting with the local churches? I would try to find an evangelical bible believing church where you can sense the love of Jesus in your area instead. For Chinese churches I would find a church more aligned with Wang Ming Dao's theology rather than Watchman Nee

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Ming-Dao

Wang founded the Christian Tabernacle, which emphasized "the practical aspects of the Christian life." Wang believed that the greatest responsibility of church leaders was to help Christians "tread the path of holiness." He often refused baptism to converts until they had proved that their Christianity was more than a "profession of their lips.

[WitnessMe]

I am still meeting with the local churches, but I am stop attending all their conferences and buying morning revivals. Since I still have so many friends there, it's hard for me to leave. Their memorial day conference this year cost $130 just to watch videos. Attending in-person conference is a lot more expensive. Well, the Bible says gospel should be freely offered to all people.

"What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the Gospel, I may make the Gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the Gospel." -1 Corinthians 9:18

Maybe I will join a reformed church some day.

[bearbear]

Originally Posted by WitnessMe

Maybe I will join a reformed church some day.

In my view, reformed theology is an improvement on LC's soteriology because it recognizes that man's faith has to persevere to the end in order to be saved but it is still flawed and deviates from what the early church believed. The danger with reformed theology is the idea that if you are not part of the pre-determined elect then there is nothing you can do about your own salvation. Instead the bible teaches that both man's free will and God's grace is involved together in partnership for our salvation (Phil 2:12-13).

I think these other Soteriologies are closer to scripture and the beliefs of the early church. I've included some links and videos for your research:

Arminianism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVN7NXqwjro
Provisionism: https://soteriology101.com/about-2/statement-of-faith/

Steve Amato also has a good resource explaining how LC's salvation theology is dangerously flawed and affirms a theology close to Provisionism using scripture:
https://www.bcbsr.com/topics/lc.html

[Sunshine]

Originally Posted by WitnessMe

But the saints in local church always want you to get baptized before you you make a firm commitment to believe Jesus. This was how I got baptized.

I noticed this too. Upon further observation and investigation, i realised they do this because they report their baptism statistics to LSM HQ. It makes there locality favoured by LSM HQ.

The other disturbing fact i also realised is they support multiple baptisms based on Witness Lee’s emphasis on the types of baptism as seen throughout the Old Testament. When i raised my concerns about the multiple baptisms and why no leading brothers checks nor follow-up whether people understand the meaning of baptism before baptising them, a leading elder in my locality defended the actions and said, we do not stop people from wanting to get baptised.