Former Church Life Members from Taiwan

[StevenLi89]

Hello. I'm wondering if there are former church life members from Taiwan. Taipei have a lot of meeting halls. I went to several of them, and they do lord's meal every sunday. They provide lunch, so I usually have lunch and go home afterwards. I still have the recovery version of the Bible, but it's only on New Testament. I already discarded all of my Morning Revival books, hymnal, etc. My last visit was at beginning of 2019. From now on I prefer churches that pray like "Dear Heavenly...in the name of Jesus we pray. Amen." I'm a former member who switched into other churches, such as Grace Baptist Church. There's also Bread of Life, but I don't like their gibberish chanting style prayer.

I assume some of the former members from Taiwan switched into Buddhism.

[aron]

Originally Posted by StevenLi89

I assume some of the former members from Taiwan switched into Buddhism.

I don't know the Taiwan scene, but if it's like the rest of the world, I can imagine somewhat. You have the "old guard" trying desperately to hold onto what they think is true, the core. To them, any change is bad (yet they represent what was once change!). You have the ones making concessions and adaptations to the new age, while still holding the core. You have some going off to Buddhism or atheism or whatever. Many give up trying to figure things out, just try to survive today, that's enough.

Against that backdrop of confusion and disgust, of lethargy and desperate grasping, I offer this: there's a story in the NT, told by Galilean fisherman, of the Messiah who suffered and died and rose again. That's the irreducible core. Added to that is the command to love one another and live in a manner befitting the Messiah. "As He is holy, so you be holy."

That's about it. Everything else points back to this gospel message. So, from this, the right question isn't, "How do I find a church" but "How do I help others who struggle with the same situation as me". Remember, as you do to others, God will do to you. So if you make it about you, you get nothing. Witness Lee made it all about you - your experience, your subjective "enjoyment", your "overcoming" and "intrinsic metabolic transformation." It was all a ruse, because his revelation centered on him. He drew you in by feeding your ego, your self. Don't repeat that mistake (I don't speak specifically to any reader here, just my experiences in particular, and observations in general.)

So, how to help others? It's critical to understand that many leave the Lord's Recovery (or leave in spirit, whilst bodily attached due to family or other constraints), will leave frustrated and emotionally embittered. They gave years of their lives, for what... nothing. Plus, they were told from Day 1 to despise everything else, so that when the "vision" of the "glorious local church" collapses into ruin they're mentally and emotionally lost... so they rush out -- it's all 'out, out' with little consideration what they're going into. They flee the thorny briars but plunge into a pit. Or they crawl out of the pit and run, run, run, headlong into briars.

So your job is to provide useful information for decision-making, and present a pattern of careful and wise decisions. Remember, "Be ye wise as serpents but guileless as doves." The first part of that isn't stressed enough. I could go on for pages but will give one example.

Watchman Nee is widely held to be one of the influential Christian thinkers, writers, leaders of the 20th century. I've read a survey asking the Jesus Movement participants of the 1970s, who were their 20 most influential Christians, where they listed those who'd impacted their thoughts, beliefs, and practices. I think WN was like #6. And yet, what do we know about him? There is Witness Lee's encomium Watchman Nee, A Seer of the Divine Revelation , there's Angus Kinnear's Against the Tide, both biased and incomplete, listing certain information to help the narrative. There's Lily Hsu's Unforgettable Memories on the other hand, also biased. But at least she was a first-hand participant, a voice. WN spoke on Sunday morning to several thousands in Shanghai, yet of first-person accounts from that era, there are few. Instead of information there's misinformation and cant. [Webster on cant: the expression or repetition of conventional or trite opinions or sentiments; or, the insincere use of pious words.]

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...E17A4767292A35

If you want to help people, give them information to make empowering choices, to free themselves from predators like WL and his minions. I link the article by Joseph Tse-Hei Lee as an example of what appears to be an attempt. But it is very, very hard! Don't be ambitious, be cautious and work hard! And you may get a story that you can share with those in Taiwan, to help them. And if you do, God will help you. Pray for others, Christ will intercede for you. Encourage others, you will be encouraged. Comfort others, you will be comforted. Guide others, and you will find the way.

Last request. If you want to be of service, please translate and release primary and secondary source documents. All Christians have a lot to learn from the Chinese Christian experience. If we don't learn from history, we tend to repeat it... see, e.g., Leung Ka-Lun, Ni Tuosheng de rongru shengchu [Watchman Nee: His Glory and Dishonor] (Hong Kong: Alliance Bible Seminary, 2003); and Ying Fuk-Tsang, "Ni Tuoshe sanzi gexin yundong [Watchman Nee and the Three-Self Movement, 1949-1951], Dao: A Journal of Bible and Theology 20 (July 2003; 129-75). Anyone who'd bring such documents to the English-speaking world would do us great favour. Thank you!

[Nell]

Originally Posted by StevenLi89

Hello. I'm wondering if there are former church life members from Taiwan.

Steven,
Since we are an anonymous forum, the only information we have is what members or guests share with us. You might want to use the search feature to search for "Taiwan".

Originally Posted by aron

...
So your job is to provide useful information for decision-making, and present a pattern of careful and wise decisions. ...

I'm going to offer another option here. I can't tell you what "your job" is because I don't know.

When I left the LC, I felt that I needed to be restored to spiritual health personally. I needed to know him, to walk with him. We are charged to obey his voice and follow him. In that other place, we were conditioned to listen and obey the voice of others rather than that of our good shepherd.

Maybe what Aron has shared will come at some point, he offers excellent advice, but I wanted to jump in here. Too often the forum "poster children" want to jump from one "church" to another without "detoxing" from the errant path we were on.

How to "detox"? Step back. Take a deep breath. Talk to Jesus. A lot. Ask him all your questions. At least, that's what I did. Look to him for the next steps for you.

Blessings to you!
Nell

I think Aron agrees with me...from another topic:

Originally Posted by aron

Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice; I call them by name, and they recognise my call". First you have to get the "voice out of your head" which is the reflexive LC-speak. Not easy at all. Takes time, effort, and work. It is a very powerful mind-control group. They literally reprogram your thoughts.

Next, you have to work hard (time, effort, consideration, reflection) to cultivate the voice of the Shepherd in the Word. He said, "These things were written concerning me".

If you do this, you have a chance to stay on the path. If you don't have a strong internal sense of the Word, the voice speaking within you, there are just too many Lee-like wannabes out there. They alone have the truth, everyone needs to listen to them. Or else, There is no truth, just do your best. Or some of a hundred variants of personal attitudes blocking the Word from speaking forth. Everyone has an agenda.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Nell

I'm going to offer another option here. I can't tell you what "your job" is because I don't know.

Yes, I agree. My writing tends to the dramatic flair, with an imperative tone, which in my mind counterbalances the WL "voice in my head" which resurfaces, occasionally. But my confident declarations are likely off-putting when read by others, when really I'm writing for myself. So my apologies for a tone that may not work well in a public forum, especially one with former members of the local church.

Originally Posted by Nell

How to "detox"? Step back. Take a deep breath. Talk to Jesus. A lot. Ask him all your questions. At least, that's what I did. Look to him for the next steps for you.

I agree. Find the inner voice that's true, then learn to consistently obey. For each of us, the journey is different, the pace is different. My assertions should be read with those cautions in mind.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by aron

Yes, I agree. My writing tends to the dramatic flair, with an imperative tone, which in my mind counterbalances the WL "voice in my head" which resurfaces, occasionally. But my confident declarations are likely off-putting when read by others, when really I'm writing for myself. So my apologies for a tone that may not work well in a public forum, especially one with former members of the local church.
I agree. Find the inner voice that's true, then learn to consistently obey. For each of us, the journey is different, the pace is different. My assertions should be read with those cautions in mind.

Thanks Aaron,
Nell

[StevenLi89]

Originally Posted by Nell

Steven,
Since we are an anonymous forum, the only information we have is what members or guests share with us. You might want to use the search feature to search for "Taiwan".



I'm going to offer another option here. I can't tell you what "your job" is because I don't know.

When I left the LC, I felt that I needed to be restored to spiritual health personally. I needed to know him, to walk with him. We are charged to obey his voice and follow him. In that other place, we were conditioned to listen and obey the voice of others rather than that of our good shepherd.

Maybe what Aron has shared will come at some point, he offers excellent advice, but I wanted to jump in here. Too often the forum "poster children" want to jump from one "church" to another without "detoxing" from the errant path we were on.

How to "detox"? Step back. Take a deep breath. Talk to Jesus. A lot. Ask him all your questions. At least, that's what I did. Look to him for the next steps for you.

Blessings to you!
Nell

I think Aron agrees with me...from another topic:

I’m sorry Nell.