The Local Church does not Value Family, Children or Relatives

If it’s news to anyone, but contrary to what they say, The Local Church does not value family, children or relatives. I will even go as far as to say is that it’s exact opposite of what they say. Their practices are horrendous and self serving. Unfortunately in my years there, I have seen people get married kind of like arranged marriage style without any kind of relationship for many years.

I have seen young people cut off and casted out from family relationships because of their refusal to fall in line with the servicing people, because they have pointed out the hypocrisy of their lives. I know of people who broke their families up because one of the spouses woke up to the abusive spiritual practices of LC, and when it was brought up, the person who is under this “controlling vision” refused to recognize and deal with the consequences, but rather sided with the status quo and blamed satan for the attack.

I have seen parents cut off their own children from inheritance, because they are no longer on the ground of oneness. They called themselves Christians, but their lives are contrary to every aspect of that name. I can’t believe sometimes to what length people are willing to go to isolate themselves as some special overcomers, while leaving piles of destruction behind them. Being out of your mind is the only way to believe these visions, because if you are sober minded with the conscience that is not seared, one would never be willing to sacrifice your own children or spouse for some man made ideology.

As I came to the conclusion a while back: one must remember that if you became the follower of Recovery, your “church” is your new family, your spiritual “parents” are your main advisers, even over your marriage and children. All of your natural human relationships are to be treated as unimportant at best, but preferably cut off as an ultimate sign of your overcoming life. What a painful pill to swallow, and it’s all for the sake of bunch of bloated man, hungry for power and authority, and to rule over the world. Frightening.

[PriestlyScribe]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I know of people who broke their families up because one of the spouses woke up to the abusive spiritual practices of LC, and when it was brought up, the person who is under this “controlling vision” refused to recognize and deal with the consequences, but rather sided with the status quo and blamed satan for the attack.

Welcome to this forum! What you describe has been seen and experienced firsthand by countless others.

Here is the tragic story of an LC married couple in Oklahoma which may resonate with you. I knew them personally when they were in the San Diego LC.

I am thankful you brought up this very important issue.

P.S.

Remember, looking at any individual’s life is basically prohibited and frowned upon. That’s including all those blended and coworkers. What’s a person is doing and how they are treating others is irrelevant and a very religious concept. It’s all about the feeling and talking. These are 3 examples that I personally know about (happened within last year+), and just a small window into this fake “oneness” and following of Lee’s brain dead methods:

1. A “responsible person” as they call themselves in LC, was extremely abusive to an individual who was giving his time to help out around the property, taking care of maintenance. He was treated like a trash, who is to obey orders, regardless if it made sense or actually went with his portion of work. But guess what, he couldn’t confront this men because it would break the oneness! He went to the meetings for months without ever speaking to this individual or even recognizing him. That’s what kind of oneness that I have seen in my local church days.

2. There is also a high ranking LSM “blended bro”, who travels and speaks at meetings. Well, his wife has left him and they are going through a divorce. But guess what, I was told that the coworkers don’t want this to be public info, and are hiding it from the people in the LC. They will probably reassign him to another locality (Washington State was his current location), and just hide his miserable self from being exposed. Beautiful church life, amazing ways of care and love. A paradise on earth, expression of some “god” that raises eyebrows even among unbelievers. But, everyone please hush and swallow the pain from these destructive wolves!

3. During last year’s Thanksgiving week, as we all know it’s another holiday that’s taken from the family to go and get brainwashed with WL and his abominable heresies. A “sister”, was proudly boasting about how she was so for the Lord, that when her own children and family were asking her to spend time with them for the holidays and be around when they’re not busy, she declined the invite and left them and others members of the extended family to attend the event in the LC. Some of the family who are Christians are very troubled by constant exclusions and treatment, and the children who are not believers are even more befuddled by these kind of practices. So much for being a light and an expression. She said, “ I’m so controlled by this vision of the “body life”, that I can’t be wasting my time on worldly things”. I almost threw up in my mouth hearing this testimony! She says she loves the family, but it’s another case for talking vs walking.

The whole Recovery movement is: A LOT OF TALK, but LITTLE to no WALK! Handicapped people (spiritually), claiming to be “gods”, sitting on the couches and in LC meetings, yelling and pointing out how much better they are than “Degraded Christianity”.

2. There is also a high ranking LSM “blended bro”, who travels and speaks at meetings. Well, his wife has left him and they are going through a divorce. But guess what, I was told that the coworkers don’t want this to be public info, and are hiding it from the people in the LC. They will probably reassign him to another locality (Washington State was his current location), and just hide his miserable self from being exposed.

Since the blended brothers are not officially named by LSM or anyone else for that matter, I'm curious to know who you are referring to. By any chance would his initials be M.R. If not could you please at least share with us the initials of this person? We are not talking about the average saint here and these fellows are actually out there as public figures so I don't see any reason why there would be objections to this.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by What is Love

3. During last year’s Thanksgiving week, as we all know it’s another holiday that’s taken from the family to go and get brainwashed with WL and his abominable heresies. A “sister”, was proudly boasting about how she was so for the Lord, that when her own children and family were asking her to spend time with them for the holidays and be around when they’re not busy, she declined the invite and left them and others members of the extended family to attend the event in the LC. Some of the family who are Christians are very troubled by constant exclusions and treatment, and the children who are not believers are even more befuddled by these kind of practices. So much for being a light and an expression. She said, “ I’m so controlled by this vision of the “body life”, that I can’t be wasting my time on worldly things”. I almost threw up in my mouth hearing this testimony! She says she loves the family, but it’s another case for talking vs walking.

From personal experience, in 1996 I flew to Southern California for the Thanksgiving conference. While I was attending the conference one of my brothers and one of my sisters drove out to Henderson, Nevada to visit our grandmother. I did not know it at the time, but our grandmother died less than a month later from cancer.
Looking back when my parents were separated, I am thankful for the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays my siblings and our mother spent in Henderson, Nevada with out grandmother, great-aunts, great-grandmother, uncles, aunts, and cousins. My happy memories from being a teen ager are from these memories.

Originally Posted by TLFisher

From personal experience, in 1996 I flew to Southern California for the Thanksgiving conference. While I was attending the conference one of my brothers and one of my sisters drove out to Henderson, Nevada to visit our grandmother. I did not know it at the time, but our grandmother died less than a month later from cancer.
Looking back when my parents were separated, I am thankful for the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays my siblings and our mother spent in Henderson, Nevada with out grandmother, great-aunts, great-grandmother, uncles, aunts, and cousins. My happy memories from being a teen ager are from these memories.

Well if it's not another "Thankskilling" holiday complainer. You really think families that come together to drink, eat all that unhealthy cooked food and watch tv is a healthy tradition? It was just another excuse to be drunk and get wasted for my uncles and cousins, and I am so glad that I found the local church life. We get to go a Thanksgiving Bible conference, eat food and fellowship with people that are sincere about the Lord Jesus. Praise God my real family is my brothers and sisters in the Lord.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Well if it's not another "Thankskilling" holiday complainer. You really think families that come together to drink, eat all that unhealthy cooked food and watch tv is a healthy tradition? It was just another excuse to be drunk and get wasted for my uncles and cousins, and I am so glad that I found the local church life. We get to go a Thanksgiving Bible conference, eat food and fellowship with people that are sincere about the Lord Jesus. Praise God my real family is my brothers and sisters in the Lord.

Parable of the Pharisee and Tax Collector
Luke 18:9 Then Jesus told this story to some who had great confidence in their own righteousness and scorned everyone else: 10 “Two men went to the Temple to pray. One was a Pharisee, and the other was a despised tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed this prayer[a]: ‘I thank you, God, that I am not like people on the Local Church Discussions Forum. I’m certainly not like those families that come together on Thanksgiving to drink, eat all that unhealthy cooked food and watch tv. 12 I go to Thanksgiving Bible conference, eat food and fellowship with people that are sincere about the Lord Jesus. Praise God my real family is my brothers and sisters in the Lord.’

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by What is Love

2. There is also a high ranking LSM “blended bro”, who travels and speaks at meetings. Well, his wife has left him and they are going through a divorce. But guess what, I was told that the coworkers don’t want this to be public info, and are hiding it from the people in the LC. They will probably reassign him to another locality (Washington State was his current location), and just hide his miserable self from being exposed. Beautiful church life, amazing ways of care and love. A paradise on earth, expression of some “god” that raises eyebrows even among unbelievers. But, everyone please hush and swallow the pain from these destructive wolves!

Amazing ways of care and love one receives if you're one in leadership capacity.
From my relative position as a nephew, I saw that. Not to be pessimistic, but I am inclined to suggest if you're not involved in leadership or church responsibility best advice one might be given is to call on the Lord three times. Otherwise who cares as long as you keep attending the meetings.
As for Washington State, I am curious too. Only one I'm aware of who might be considered a BB is C.W. Having not attended any LC meetings in Washington state for a good 13-14 years or more, I'm out of the loop what's going on in Washington State localities.

I am in the LC. The most detestable thing is the unforgiveness in our church and partisanship.
Certain families are hailed and others are not. Single people are often a little despised. Money is worshipped and so is status while pretending it does not matter to aquire it.

Take care of your families. I was separated from mine for so long , yet as a single person it is always my extended family that takes care of me in times of need and not the LC people most times.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I am in the LC. The most detestable thing is the unforgiveness in our church and partisanship.
Certain families are hailed and others are not. Single people are often a little despised. Money is worshipped and so is status while pretending it does not matter to aquire it.

Take care of your families. I was separated from mine for so long , yet as a single person it is always my extended family that takes care of me in times of need and not the LC people most times.

The most detestable thing is the unforgiveness in our church and partisanship - rarely has this been expressed so succinctly.
I have seen the contrast of unforgiveness; blessing through prayer. Pardon me if I relay this experience once more. About a dozen years ago after I ceased meeting with the LC church in Renton, I was meeting with East Renton Community Church. Something I never expected to see in my lifetime is a dissenting elder being prayed for and blessed in his last meeting as an elder while given an open invitation to return.
In the Local Churches, that is sadly non-negotiable. Elders with dissenting opinions are "squashed like a bug".
Take for example John Ingalls. He left around 1989/1990 and died in 2016 if I'm not mistaken. Yet in following years there is at least 3 examples there have been public speaking against him; December-2018, July-2019, and January-2020. I've always thought the Local Churches would be a better place if the leadership practiced a ministry of reconciliation.
Partisanship-using single people as an example. Never is it so clear as FTTA candidates versus those not interested in FTTA. James 2:2-4 is a vivid example.

My experience with my family growing up Catholic included family traditions, going to the quickest Sunday mass(so we could be done with going to church), and holiday gatherings full of drinking and other sinful pleasures. When I started to attend some Pentecostal church meetings, I found out that God was real and I had been trapped in man's religious traditions. As I continued to be at family outings, I saw in a deeper way what was happening. My family was not interested in anything spiritual at all. I would attend Bible studies and then I met some brothers and sisters from the local church where I lived in Connecticut. The kindness and seriousness that was expressed towards me help me to be genuine and serious in my relationship with the Lord. My family did not even want me around any longer because I would not participate in their sinful follies. My real family with eternal joys was my brothers and sisters in Christ. I often hear that those in the local churches do not take care of family. I find this statement to be so very far from the truth. All those who desire to be godly and pursue righteousness will be persecuted. The Bible says if we do not hate our mother, father wife, etc.....we cannot be His disciple. (I will leave your interpretation of that up to you, as all man has the capacity to properly understand the truth---God will help see to that too). It is not the truth that those in the local church do not value family, that is a misleading lie. I hope you can turn to your spirit and find true discernement, and experience the all-inclusive Christ.

[Bible-believer]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

My experience with my family growing up Catholic included family traditions, going to the quickest Sunday mass(so we could be done with going to church), and holiday gatherings full of drinking and other sinful pleasures. When I started to attend some Pentecostal church meetings, I found out that God was real and I had been trapped in man's religious traditions. As I continued to be at family outings, I saw in a deeper way what was happening. My family was not interested in anything spiritual at all. I would attend Bible studies and then I met some brothers and sisters from the local church where I lived in Connecticut. The kindness and seriousness that was expressed towards me help me to be genuine and serious in my relationship with the Lord. My family did not even want me around any longer because I would not participate in their sinful follies. My real family with eternal joys was my brothers and sisters in Christ. I often hear that those in the local churches do not take care of family. I find this statement to be so very far from the truth. All those who desire to be godly and pursue righteousness will be persecuted. The Bible says if we do not hate our mother, father wife, etc.....we cannot be His disciple. (I will leave your interpretation of that up to you, as all man has the capacity to properly understand the truth---God will help see to that too). It is not the truth that those in the local church do not value family, that is a misleading lie. I hope you can turn to your spirit and find true discernement, and experience the all-inclusive Christ.

How marvelous the way you value your family is: leaving them in their sinful follies and staying with your "real family."


I bet you don't even know how to interpret the verse without the help of Lee's interpretation. How about Eph. 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise; ) 5:25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?


Brother, I hope you can spiritually discern.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

My experience with my family growing up Catholic included family traditions, going to the quickest Sunday mass(so we could be done with going to church), and holiday gatherings full of drinking and other sinful pleasures. When I started to attend some Pentecostal church meetings, I found out that God was real and I had been trapped in man's religious traditions. As I continued to be at family outings, I saw in a deeper way what was happening. My family was not interested in anything spiritual at all. I would attend Bible studies and then I met some brothers and sisters from the local church where I lived in Connecticut. The kindness and seriousness that was expressed towards me help me to be genuine and serious in my relationship with the Lord. My family did not even want me around any longer because I would not participate in their sinful follies. My real family with eternal joys was my brothers and sisters in Christ. I often hear that those in the local churches do not take care of family. I find this statement to be so very far from the truth. All those who desire to be godly and pursue righteousness will be persecuted. The Bible says if we do not hate our mother, father wife, etc.....we cannot be His disciple. (I will leave your interpretation of that up to you, as all man has the capacity to properly understand the truth---God will help see to that too). It is not the truth that those in the local church do not value family, that is a misleading lie. I hope you can turn to your spirit and find true discernement, and experience the all-inclusive Christ.

I had similar experiences growing up in a huge Catholic family. After I was saved, few wanted to hear about the joy of my salvation. They were happy about the wonderful changes in my life, but few wanted to hear the truths of the gospel. And like you, many times I felt closer to my new brothers and sisters in Christ than my family.

Over time, however, Local Church leaders used this to separate me from my family. Families would all gather during the holidays, but all the holidays were occupied by church conferences. Nearly every night of the week was occupied by church meetings. Especially in those early years, when my family was most open to my gospel, brothers would take me aside and chide me for visiting them. One brother who missed a meeting to attend his family reunion was shamed in absentia. That sent a strong message to everyone else: The leader will shame you publicly if you place your family above his meeting.

[Nell]

I remember being pressured to ask permission to travel to visit my parents. One time a sister drove me to visit them so I wouldn’t be “unsupervised”.

Originally Posted by TLFisher

The most detestable thing is the unforgiveness in our church and partisanship - rarely has this been expressed so succinctly.
I have seen the contrast of unforgiveness; blessing through prayer. Pardon me if I relay this experience once more. About a dozen years ago after I ceased meeting with the LC church in Renton, I was meeting with East Renton Community Church. Something I never expected to see in my lifetime is a dissenting elder being prayed for and blessed in his last meeting as an elder while given an open invitation to return.
In the Local Churches, that is sadly non-negotiable. Elders with dissenting opinions are "squashed like a bug".
Take for example John Ingalls. He left around 1989/1990 and died in 2016 if I'm not mistaken. Yet in following years there is at least 3 examples there have been public speaking against him; December-2018, July-2019, and January-2020. I've always thought the Local Churches would be a better place if the leadership practiced a ministry of reconciliation.
Partisanship-using single people as an example. Never is it so clear as FTTA candidates versus those not interested in FTTA. James 2:2-4 is a vivid example.

Forgiveness needs repentance. JI was dissenting, opinionated, and he seemed so spiritual when he would talk with others about his experience and love after he was approached by some mature brothers. The Lord always give man a chance for forgiveness, man must confess and His being will be in the light. Just because a brother expresses a concern does not automatically mean he is right. Hatred versus the Lord's recovery expresses itself in blindness. So many on this site have stated that the Bible says to point out that which is wrong, and this justifies whatever they say about the LC's. But when a brother wants to point out something about JI it is considered "squishing a bug". I see lots of smoke blowing around on this site, but no fire----except a fire made up by opinionated Christians. Gandhi said that "so many of you are not like your Christ". Boy was he correct.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Forgiveness needs repentance. JI was dissenting, opinionated, and he seemed so spiritual when he would talk with others about his experience and love after he was approached by some mature brothers. The Lord always give man a chance for forgiveness, man must confess and His being will be in the light. Just because a brother expresses a concern does not automatically mean he is right. Hatred versus the Lord's recovery expresses itself in blindness. So many on this site have stated that the Bible says to point out that which is wrong, and this justifies whatever they say about the LC's. But when a brother wants to point out something about JI it is considered "squishing a bug". I see lots of smoke blowing around on this site, but no fire----except a fire made up by opinionated Christians. Gandhi said that "so many of you are not like your Christ". Boy was he correct.

Jesus was dissenting, opinionated, and He seemed so spiritual when He would talk with others about His experience and love after He was approached, and look what they did to Him.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Forgiveness needs repentance. JI was dissenting, opinionated, and he seemed so spiritual when he would talk with others about his experience and love after he was approached by some mature brothers. The Lord always give man a chance for forgiveness, man must confess and His being will be in the light. Just because a brother expresses a concern does not automatically mean he is right. Hatred versus the Lord's recovery expresses itself in blindness. So many on this site have stated that the Bible says to point out that which is wrong, and this justifies whatever they say about the LC's. But when a brother wants to point out something about JI it is considered "squishing a bug". I see lots of smoke blowing around on this site, but no fire----except a fire made up by opinionated Christians. Gandhi said that "so many of you are not like your Christ". Boy was he correct.

Have you read "Speaking the Truth in Love" by John Ingalls? Please read it here.

In order to continue posting you need to register for forum membership. Send an email To: Reg4LCD@Gmail.Com and include your desired username!

Nell
Admin/Moderator

BTW: Hatred toward those who have left Lord's recovery expresses itself in blindness.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

My experience with my family growing up Catholic included family traditions, going to the quickest Sunday mass(so we could be done with going to church), and holiday gatherings full of drinking and other sinful pleasures. When I started to attend some Pentecostal church meetings, I found out that God was real and I had been trapped in man's religious traditions. As I continued to be at family outings, I saw in a deeper way what was happening. My family was not interested in anything spiritual at all. I would attend Bible studies and then I met some brothers and sisters from the local church where I lived in Connecticut. The kindness and seriousness that was expressed towards me help me to be genuine and serious in my relationship with the Lord. My family did not even want me around any longer because I would not participate in their sinful follies. My real family with eternal joys was my brothers and sisters in Christ. I often hear that those in the local churches do not take care of family. I find this statement to be so very far from the truth. All those who desire to be godly and pursue righteousness will be persecuted. The Bible says if we do not hate our mother, father wife, etc.....we cannot be His disciple. (I will leave your interpretation of that up to you, as all man has the capacity to properly understand the truth---God will help see to that too). It is not the truth that those in the local church do not value family, that is a misleading lie. I hope you can turn to your spirit and find true discernement, and experience the all-inclusive Christ.

Unregistered,

Welcome to the forum!

Sorry to hear that your real family (the blood related one) did not want you around because of the difference in lifestyle and emphasis on the spiritual. LC-issues aside, that had to be extremely painful to experience on a human level, and likely still is. Our own fractured family relationships have a unique ability to cause deep pain that other relationships often cannot cause quite as deeply. In light of this, I certainly understand your feeling like the saints in the local church are your "real family" due to the love and acceptance and connection and similarity in pursuit. Many people have had similar experiences, i.e. that whole thought that "family is not always blood" or "family is who you choose", etc. Our spiritual family can be different than our actual family.

But in the context of this thread about the local church not valuing family (meaning blood related), this story does not show or prove that the local church does value family. What it shows is that your own family did not value family, and that the local church took you in as "family". But "family" is being used to mean different things at different places here, and neither of these instances show the local church values blood-related family.

When people say the local church does not value family, it usually means that otherwise healthier family relationships are broken or strained due to local church dynamics. And when family problems are caused by the local church, it is almost never due to the person's following the Lord, but due to the person's following the ministry of Witness Lee.

In your case it did seem to be that your following the Lord, starting in a Pentecostal church, was one source of strained family relationships. However, many, many new ones in the local church come from Christian families, and it is the local church specifically, not Jesus, that causes the damaged family relationship. This is what I and many other have a problem with.

At the end of the day, a church that says things like "just take care of going to the meetings and the Lord will take care of your family".....it's going to be difficult to claim that this is a church that values family.

I hope you'll stick around to dialogue.

Trapped

The family unit has been the number one target of satan ever since Genesis account. What our society is going through today, and especially for the past 100 years, is a direct result of the kind of fruits that we see and experience today. I read this quote from Walter Martin awhile back, that resonated with me very much.

“The second factor in the growth of the cults is the breakdown of the family. Cults provide the family atmosphere many from broken homes long for; the cult leader often takes the place of a father figure.”

If there is anything that I could look back to, and point, is that how many people including myself, came to LC from dysfunctional and broken families? Reading some posts here, reiterates many things related to this issue. I know that the current members will not and cannot ever admit this out loud, because everything is extremely spiritualized there, but one could really make an argument that a lot of people in this group are there because their natural desires of family, love, care, was never given to them. You can say that their natural relationships within their birth families or marriages didn’t satisfy their cravings that they have, and these are the kind of people that are targeted by movements like the local church.

I remember that in my locality, more than 50% of people were divorced at least once, a lot of them lost all relationships with their children, but what kept them in the local church was the camaraderie and the outward effervescence that you in a lot of cases cannot find in the churches outside of LC. So to hear people cutting off their natural family, and just immersing themselves into the church life at all costs, is pretty feasible and not uncommon.

I also think that there is levels to this extremist within the group. Some who are just floaters, and some who are zealots, and the competition for who will be the better overcomer between those who are all in, brings extreme hurts and destructive behavior that is cloaked under the guise of spiritually, when actually is just the lack of care and love that those people never got from their own homes.