Minoru Chen is filled with Witness Lee's spirit?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

aron,
For the sake of our readers could you please give us a few lines of explanation on what a guanxi network is, and how it may apply to the leadership in the Local Church of Witness Lee?
-

In my last post I really attempted to answer ByHisMercy on this topic of hiding identities using today's media as an example, but my post was edited/deleted.

I figured my example was more readily understandable to typical Americans than some obscure "guanxi network," which is totally foreign to our culture.

Best of luck, aron. After reading your many posts on this subject, the best I can say to describe the "guanxi network," is "hive mentality." Perhaps I am way off the mark, though.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

In my last post I really attempted to answer ByHisMercy on this topic of hiding identities using today's media as an example, but my post was edited/deleted.

I figured my example was more readily understandable to typical Americans than some obscure "guanxi network," which is totally foreign to our culture.

Best of luck, aron. After reading your many posts on this subject, the best I can say to describe the guanxi network," is "hive mentality." Perhaps I am way off the mark, though.

It is a culturally-sourced web of mutual obligations. WL 'owed' his progeny to feast at the LC trough. RK and MC 'owed' WL fealty, praise, dedication. And the LC saints 'owed' MC a cab ride to the airport. Everybody gets something.

But if you ask them to give something to the poor, who have no means to repay in this age, they look at you like you are crazy. The network doesn't work that way. It's not about the resurrection of the righteous, it's about getting mine, today. WN got his, WL got his, now MC is getting his.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Ohio

In my last post I really attempted to answer ByHisMercy on this topic of hiding identities using today's media as an example, but my post was edited/deleted.

I figured my example was more readily understandable to typical Americans than some obscure "guanxi network," which is totally foreign to our culture.

Best of luck, aron. After reading your many posts on this subject, the best I can say to describe the "guanxi network," is "hive mentality." Perhaps I am way off the mark, though.

Ohio,

I don’t think you’re off the mark at all. A “hive mentality”, a “collective”, a generationally established Chinese ancestral network (guanxi?), all seem to add up to one thing: a counterfeit Christian community. Of course, many, if not most of those in the Local Churches are true, born-again believers in Jesus. We know this.

The counterfeit? A ranking member with an apparent longstanding belief (and teaching his belief to others) that he is filled with the spirit of an “ancestor.” This is not only counterfeit but is heresy. Heresy that has apparently been taught openly in their meetings for quite some time by at least one “blended”.

The brilliance of it (a bad brilliance) seems to be that both sides of the matter, LC v. Former members, are left to duke it out over Lee’s flawed and failed “ministry” and its bad fruit. This is an argument that can, and probably will, never be resolved. This is a symptom of the real problem.

We can thank Minoru Chen for pulling back the curtain on the real problem...”the hive”. Curious connected these dots for us, as did you. As did Aron. We have been fighting the wrong battle. Witness Lee’s flawed and failed “ministry” pale in comparison to the undercurrent of the hive. Witness Lee’s ministry was/is only a vehicle to achieve an end...an end that seemingly has little to do with building the church.

What then? One possibility, in his Old Way v. New Way topic, BoxJoBox told us about this:
“I looked the other day at their IRS 990T for 2018 and their asset book value of $100.7 million- I guess their business model works for them.“ (And they can’t refund the $$$ their Daystar investors lost!!!!)

So what is the LSM? A front company for the hive? What is Witness Lee’s “ministry”? A false flag?

Whatever is genuine in this whole matter is genuine because of God’s mercy; whatever is genuine is because of God’s anointing of his Word and the truth of his Word. There has no doubt been genuine and rich and eternal blessings poured out by God Himself. God blesses his people as he has done for centuries before Lee and his “family business” came on the scene. (The “family business”has new meaning, doesn’t it?)

My walk with the Lord really began when I heard the brothers sharing in the meetings in the early days. They were sharing the truth of God’s word that rings to this day. What came after those early days, I remember only as a lot of words. Repetitious hollow words.

So I guess now I’m in as much trouble, if not more, than Aron. It’s making sense to me.

Nell

PS: I’d like to read your example on “today’s media”.

[Boxjobox]

I was reading today in Luke- the beloved physician, Luke 13, where he writes about a woman in the synagogue having a "a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bent over and could in no way raise herself up". Jesus heals her, loosing her from her infirmity. A squabble rises because it was done on the sabbath, and Jesus says "16So ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has bound—think of it—for eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath?”

I'm not trying to give a bible study, but only personal thoughts; I have no insight that would reveal the nature of the spirit world. But it seems to me that the spirit that possessed Lee was one of making a business out of the things of God, which involved setting himself up as someone special and unique and holding special powers from God. Peter ran across a similar person/spirit in Acts 8, and Paul in Acts 13 with Bar-Jesus. It would seem to me that if Minoru feels he has the spirit of Lee, that he is being possessed with that thinking he is someone special, with an overwhelming desire to make merchandise of God's word and God's people.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Boxjobox

...I'm not trying to give a bible study, but only personal thoughts; I have no insight that would reveal the nature of the spirit world. But it seems to me that the spirit that possessed Lee...

BJB--

This may just be a matter of terminology, but I have come to believe that Christians cannot be "possessed" by spirits or demons. I believe Witness Lee was a Christian...a believer...regenerated whatever term you want to use, so I don't believe he was "possessed" by demons. Minoru, I don't know. He shares non-Christian teachings as though they were Biblical truth. But then, so did Lee.

Christians can be afflicted by demons...tormented by demons and clearly Christians can be deceived by Satan and his minions. Hence we are told to "try the spirits":

1 John 4:1-3 (KJV) 1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

It's important to "know your enemy". If you're interested, The Bondage Breaker by Neil T. Anderson is a good place to start.

I/We were clearly deceived by the Devil into believing whatever "the ministry" taught. I think it's time to get educated.

Nell

[Boxjobox]

Originally Posted by Nell

BJB--

This may just be a matter of terminology, but I have come to believe that Christians cannot be "possessed" by spirits or demons. I believe Witness Lee was a Christian...a believer...regenerated whatever term you want to use, so I don't believe he was "possessed" by demons. Minoru, I don't know. He shares non-Christian teachings as though they were Biblical truth. But then, so did Lee.

Christians can be afflicted by demons...tormented by demons and clearly Christians can be deceived by Satan and his minions. Hence we are told to "try the spirits":

1 John 4:1-3 (KJV) 1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

It's important to "know your enemy". If you're interested, The Bondage Breaker by Neil T. Anderson is a good place to start.

I/We were clearly deceived by the Devil into believing whatever "the ministry" taught. I think it's time to get educated.

Nell

I started reading The Bondage Breaker years ago, but never finished it. If I remember, it was too jaded toward finding demons around every corner- something I don't do.

But what was the overwhelming motivation that led WL to even set himself up as a deputy authority and insist that his speaking was the word, and demand that all local churches accept his authority and LSM? Why would a little bible preacher, who did such a great job establishing the "local" church, and the recovery of the church wreck what he worked so hard to establish. What was that motivating force, what drove him to turn his back on such faithful servants of the Lord as John Ingalls? In my view, what was the work of the Lord to establish scriptural assemblies- something that hasn't been practiced in over 1700 years was destroyed by this motivation (and of course, by all who played along with it).

And now Minoru says he has the same spirit.
And now Minoro feels he has the same spirit

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Boxjobox

I started reading The Bondage Breaker years ago, but never finished it. If I remember, it was too jaded toward finding demons around every corner- something I don't do.

It's a reality that there actually are demonic spirits everywhere...around every corner...? Maybe?

From NTA: "The Bible does not attempt to prove the existence of demons any more than it attempts to prove the existence of God. It simply reports on their activities as if its readers accepted their existence. Nor did the early church fathers have a problem with the reality and personality of demons. ...

"But we need not fear Satan and his demons as long as you cling to God's truth. Their only weapon is deception." Our only weapon is truth and its power to dispel the darkness.

NTA's books educate people to the reality of the spirit world and report on the possibility of their activity in our lives. The Bondage Breaker does emphasize that he is not looking for demons around every corner. It would be a good idea not to give up on the book. Many people have been helped with the light NTA brought to the subject, myself included. He emphasizes truth as the only weapon against deception and it is the tactic of Satan and his minions to deceive, as we first saw in Gen. 3.

Nell

[Nell]

This video by Neil T. Anderson will put things in perspective as an alternative to the book.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FBC4G1hU90

It's a Q&A on Spiritual Warfare, but you can't hear the questions. However, his answers are excellent.

Nell