Origin and Evolution of Satan (hell, angels, etc) from all points of view

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

What one thinks about this entails a philosophy of religion. Are religious symbols like Satan and God invented by people due to social political forces or perhaps economic forces if you're a Marxist? To say that the New Testament writers invented the Satan narrative to exonerate the Romans in the death of Jesus implies as much. Doesn't it? And how far down can we go with this kind of historical hypothesizing? We know some things about the social political facts of the time. But what would do we really know about the writer of the Gospel of Mark for instance? At what point does knowledge shade into guesswork? What are the limits of the historical method for understanding the Bible? Cuz life is short and we're already living it, and we need to answer now.

Silly boy ... there's a monster in the closet, and under the bed. That's when we were kids. But grown-ups require a bigger monster, a universal monster, with greater power than the monster in the closet.

Satan is a very handy tool. He not only deflects blame from God, but explains the unexplainable bad things that happen, and our bad behavior.

Plus, we are duty bound to God to defeat Satan whenever encountered, or when we need it.

A despicable example : we used Satan to kill and take land from the Native Americans. It was obvious by how they danced around the fire that they were worshipping the devil, plus they weren't people of The Book. We had to do it for God.

Satan is handy like that.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Silly boy ... there's a monster in the closet, and under the bed. That's when we were kids. But grown-ups require a bigger monster, a universal monster, with greater power than the monster in the closet.

Satan is a very handy tool. He not only deflects blame from God, but explains the unexplainable bad things that happen, and our bad behavior.

Plus, we are duty bound to God to defeat Satan whenever encountered, or when we need it.

A despicable example : we used Satan to kill and take land from the Native Americans. It was obvious by how they danced around the fire that they were worshipping the devil, plus they weren't people of The Book. We had to do it for God.

Satan is handy like that.

I don't appreciate your demeaning one-upmanship and your response misses the point of my post entirely.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

I don't appreciate your demeaning one-upmanship and your response misses the point of my post entirely.

Just explaining the invention of Satan. It seems innate that kids are scared of imaginative monsters.

That bleeds into the need for a Satan later on. Sorry for missing your point. But I thought we were addressing the origin and evolution of Satan.

Can you explain that? Maybe I'm the silly boy.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Just explaining the invention of Satan. It seems innate that kids are scared of imaginative monsters.

That bleeds into the need for a Satan later on. Sorry for missing your point. But I thought we were addressing the origin and evolution of Satan.

Can you explain that? Maybe I'm the silly boy.

No I don't appreciate being insulted and since you have all the answers you don't need my input.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

No I don't appreciate being insulted and since you have all the answers you don't need my input.

Okay. You're not a silly boy. I didn't mean to insult you. I didn't think you'd take it personal. My bad. Satan must have creeped in.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I don't appreciate your demeaning one-upmanship and your response misses the point of my post entirely.

So . . . I'm not alone feeling the same way? Hmmmm.

[awareness]

In his new life, Justin [Martyr] sees his role in the universe enormously enhanced; the stand he takes and the choices he makes not only decide his eternal destiny but engage him at present as an active combatant in the universal struggle between God’s spirit and Satan.

Pagels, Elaine. The Origin of Satan (p. 122). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by awareness

In his new life, Justin [Martyr] sees his role in the universe enormously enhanced; the stand he takes and the choices he makes not only decide his eternal destiny but engage him at present as an active combatant in the universal struggle between God’s spirit and Satan.

Pagels, Elaine. The Origin of Satan (p. 122). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

havent gotten to that page yet. have to catch up on all my readings 🙏

[SerenityLives]

It’s a shame that the Book of Jubilees, Macabees, and Book of Watchers didnt make it into the canonical Bible. They offer perspectives on how Satan evolved as a personification of the struggles within Israel historically , esp in relation to under Hellenistic rule by the Greeks, the Babylonians,Persians, Assyrians etc. The Pharisees rose up during that paeriod and called anyone following the practices of foreign religions or cultural customs as not being Jewish or “God’s true people” and in turn were called “satans” (translated from greek and other languages they were influenced at the time).

Interestingly, this also is like satire literature speaking out against the greek gods and roman/greek mythology and other nations’ mythos where usually the gods mate with human females to create hybrids they deem as heroes (i.e Hercules, Perseus, etc). The book of Enoch take s a different approach and calls these human-divine hybrids as “monsters and giants” and abominations, in turn poking fun and belittling the beliefs of the cultures that were opressing them at the time

I remember one LC high school conference where an elder wpoke with the “young people” and told us to be wary around watching Twilight (teenage vampire male and human female romances and other contemporary culture) since supposedly Satan is trying to inflitrate the young minds of the generation into accepting it as normal in preparation for the apocalypse, where the elder and i was sure the LC believed in the LC being God’s remnant to issue in God’s Kingdom and shouldnt be fornicating with such demonic influences of the “age”. He actually believed that Revelation was coming soon, God was coming soon. and that these human-divine hybrids will be everywhere since young adult fantasy novels are focused on indoctrinating the youth to accept having sexual relations with these divine beings (werewolves, vampires, etc, disguised by fallen angels) as “cool and normal”.I had too many questions to ask him but I kept my mouth shut b/c you know, sisters are not supposed to talk. This bothered me a lot at 15 years old.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

It’s a shame that the Book of Jubilees, Macabees, and Book of Watchers didnt make it into the canonical Bible.

That depends on whose canon you reference.

I use eSword, a great free Bible tool. So I've got around 50 different translations (most for free) on my computer, and 8 of them have the apocrypha, with the books :

1 & 2 Esdras,
Tobit,
Judith,
1-4 Maccabees,
Prayer of Manasseh,
Wisdom,
Sirach,
Baruch.

The books of Enoch appear in no canon --> shame. The Books of Enoch can be purchased from Amazon. The Book of Enoch is an app that can be installed on your phone at Google Play. It can also be downloaded, or I could send it to you. And Serenity, if I'm not mistaken, as a plus, I sent you "The Lost Books of the Bible and The Forgotten Books of Eden," loaded with lots of fascinating alternative books ... but not the books of Enoch.

Originally Posted by Serenity

The book of Enoch take s a different approach and calls these human-divine hybrids as “monsters and giants” and abominations,

Mat 24:37* As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man.*
Does that mean the Nephilim will come back, and those naughty sons of God again?