Moved from Main Page: We Should Do Something

[Curious]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Trapped, thank you for your welcome. Information on this forum has been very helpful at times over the last few years. It’s a shame that certain people make it so off putting for many others to participate as I am certain that there are many more church kids out there that stumble upon it.. Unfortunately it often reflects the very same attitudes from the LR that we’re trying to find healing from. We’ve already spent The entirety of our formative years being manipulated by men of a certain demographic on how to behave, think, feel, dress, marry, raise children etc and don’t have any energy left for people who wish to be version 2.0.

I have been watching-on here from the side-lines. But I do want to say something now.

Thank you, younger generation, ECK’s, for persevering with your message. Though it’s a bit raw and messy, this is the way towards a breakthrough of sorts, in mutual understanding. IMO.

The older generation who have paved the way by learning the harm, then setting up this forum, have done so in recognition that this information is important for the wellbeing of anyone and everyone who has been hurt by the LC.

However, as they are, in the main, individuals who have either maintained or returned to their fundamental Christian faith, this factor has been part of their motivation, and part of their conviction. That is to say, unpacking and unravelling the ways the true message of the bible has been distorted and re-aligned to ‘endorse’ WL and his various, personal agendas is one main theme of this forum. As is obvious I know. However, they have meant no harm in this, its their (mine too) comfortable place.

However, an important ‘blind spot’ has been identified in this thread. In the comradery and enthusiasm of unpacking the false doctrines together, being free to discuss our faith openly is a very normal part of our discussions. We did not know until now, the triggering effect this has the potential to have on the younger generation. To learn that it actually keeps some or potentially many, ECK’s from signing up and entering the discussions, and/or puts ECK’s right off is an important thing to recognize. And well worth being aware of. it is certainly not at all intended. It may seem trivial to long-time posters, who, like me, love to discuss faith. However, these discussions look very different to those whose spiritual abuse is raw. To become aware of, and able thereby to validate and be sensitive to those who are ‘triggered’ by religious talk could really help this forum to be a helpful place to many more individuals. In turn, helping it to achieve its goals, especially towards supporting ECK’s and younger generation.

After all, to serve the demographic speaking out in this thread, is to listen and be prepared to think of ways to create a suitable space that does not talk Christian-ese at them. And realize this is very important. Even if Christian doctrine is discussed, to be done so in a way that does not cross boundaries. Being informed and in mutual understanding about what those boundaries are. I think this is a great development!

I know how off-putting Christianity is when delivered in a 'religious spirit' from my own personal history. I recognized that religious tone taking over in my meetings with LC'ers and that contributed to my ceasing to meet. If conversations here are perceived in that tone by those whose only experience has been in such an atmosphere, then no wonder it becomes a non-starter. I get it.

We are perhaps, guilty of insensitivity.

[SerenityLives]

I just want to say one thing. I’m sad we pushed XCK away. It seems she spent a lot of time to write her last response.

Secondly, something needs to be changed. Last time, I posted my testimony on here, it also got delegated to Alt views because of just one component- the lgbtq component. I dont know about you all, but when we (the younger generation) have our testimonies thrown below grounds, it’s an insult and makes us not want to share our testimonies in the first place on here.

I guess the best strategy then would just post our testimony and then leave and not reply to any rebuttals. But that doesnt seem right either.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I just want to say one thing. I’m sad we pushed XCK away. It seems she spent a lot of time to write her last response.

Secondly, something needs to be changed. Last time, I posted my testimony on here, it also got delegated to Alt views because of just one component- the lgbtq component. I dont know about you all, but when we (the younger generation) have our testimonies thrown below grounds, it’s an insult and makes us not want to share our testimonies in the first place on here.

I guess the best strategy then would just post our testimony and then leave and not reply to any rebuttals. But that doesnt seem right either.

It's sad ... and not right. It hurts my soul.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Thanks for the reply. After considering this a bit and praying about it, I'm not going to try and fix this or myself . . . because I can't. Rather, I chose to take Paul's admonition to forget those things which are behind, and that includes statements made on this thread, both from myself and others. (and this is after I made the suggestion earlier that we do an Alt Section thread to examine these things to understand better what happened - see my post #76)

I'm not trying to be flippant, rather this is a reminder to me to give each and every post to Him, before hitting the "Enter" button. I don't always do that well, and so yes, sometimes things come through that appear insensitive. I've had a number of times where after asking, "Lord, what do you think of this post I'm ready to make?" that I've been constrained from making a post, and numerous times where I've modified a post.

BTW - I've also been told by other forum members that I had nothing to apologize for in that thread. But I am also sensitive to the matter of being "tone deaf." My flesh would want to keep going at this whole topic, but again, I think it's best to forget it and leave it to Him.

This is a huge cop out of a response. You can cloak it in verses to make yourself feel better, but it's still a cop out.

Of course you can fix yourself. If you make a comment about how the dinner your wife cooked was bland, and she tells you "hey......that doesn't make me feel good", do you respond "I'm not going to try to fix myself" or "I can't fix myself"? Of course not. Come on man. Don't use the Bible to absolve yourself of personal responsibility as well as your own God-given ability to learn.

"Forgetting what is behind" was said just after Paul listed out his high accomplishments and attainments.....it's not in reference to offenses and hurt. What you did there was the same type of misuse of scripture as the LC co-workers do.

"Leave it to Him" is a very convenient way to skip away and do the same thing again the next time someone comes having been hurt so badly by the LC they don't believe God cares. The mindset that we can't do anything negates God's judgment of us. When He comes to judge us we can just say "Christ didn't indwell me enough!" and point the blame to Christ. Nope. You absolutely can do something about your behavior, actions, and responses. It's the only basis for God's judgment.

I can surmise which forum members told you you had nothing to apologize for. Other forum members have told me you did have things to apologize for. Hopefully from the numerous posts, particularly on the Alt-view forum recently where you have acknowledged my reasoning on sensitive topics, you should know that I'm not one to make issues out of things that aren't there.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I just want to say one thing. I’m sad we pushed XCK away. It seems she spent a lot of time to write her last response.

Secondly, something needs to be changed. Last time, I posted my testimony on here, it also got delegated to Alt views because of just one component- the lgbtq component. I dont know about you all, but when we (the younger generation) have our testimonies thrown below grounds, it’s an insult and makes us not want to share our testimonies in the first place on here.

I guess the best strategy then would just post our testimony and then leave and not reply to any rebuttals. But that doesnt seem right either.

I'm sad too. I'm going to take a specific stance regarding the rest of your post here that you may or may not agree with.

If someone comes and posts their testimony and experiences, and that testimony includes the fact that they are LGBTQ and includes the way they were treated in the LC for being LGBTQ, I see absolutely no reason why that post and thread should be moved. It should stay on the main forum. To move a thread like that only sends the same message the LGBTQ person has probably gotten already - we don't want you here - which is a horrible message to send, and the wrong one.

However, due to the personal beliefs of the owner of this forum, I can understand having the threads on the topic of LGBTQ on the Alt-views section. If someone believes that same sex actions are a sin, I can understand their not wanting posts in affirmation of that sin on the main forum. In that case, I would hope that just the LGBTQ defense/offense posts were moved, and not the entire thread where the LGBTQ person introduced themselves.

Having said that, I'm not necessarily set in stone on that either. It's all stuff that various people leaving the LC might have to wrestle with or may never have been able to talk about, so why separate it out? But I do agree that something needs to change in the way we welcome new people, no matter what they believe or are.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Trapped

I'm sad too. I'm going to take a specific stance regarding the rest of your post here that you may or may not agree with.

If someone comes and posts their testimony and experiences, and that testimony includes the fact that they are LGBTQ and includes the way they were treated in the LC for being LGBTQ, I see absolutely no reason why that post and thread should be moved. It should stay on the main forum. To move a thread like that only sends the same message the LGBTQ person has probably gotten already - we don't want you here - which is a horrible message to send, and the wrong one.

However, due to the personal beliefs of the owner of this forum, I can understand having the threads on the topic of LGBTQ on the Alt-views section. If someone believes that same sex actions are a sin, I can understand their not wanting posts in affirmation of that sin on the main forum. In that case, I would hope that just the LGBTQ defense/offense posts were moved, and not the entire thread where the LGBTQ person introduced themselves.

Having said that, I'm not necessarily set in stone on that either. It's all stuff that various people leaving the LC might have to wrestle with or may never have been able to talk about, so why separate it out? But I do agree that something needs to change in the way we welcome new people, no matter what they believe or are.

Yes Trapped, I would agree with you that if the coversation did go sideways like focusing on biblical analysis of lgbtq relationships or atheism, then it should be in a different thread. What I was upset about was that my entire testimony (not just the particular posts that went off topic) was moved to Alt views before (this thread was later deleted). Same with XChurchKid’s Testimony. The whole thing was moved over. I’m not sure how difficult it is for the mod to just start at the point where people veered off topic to debate certain aspects of the testimony, and move the posts AFTER that point or points to Alt views. Then again, there are ex LCers also suffering or experiencing atheism and/or sexuality issues and I think it’s be best to leave these sorts of testimonies in the main forum to include diversity. Esp among the younger generations, it is beneficial for them to see they’re not the only ones going through it, and that they dont have to scroll all the way down to Alt views to find that others are experiencing the same things.
Then again, this is my two cents, if someone thinks lgbtq plus is/is not a sin, both views are equally valid, so to choose one over the other in order to make a decision whether or not that should be in the main forum is making a decision for all LCers who may think differently about the issue.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Trapped

I'm sad too. I'm going to take a specific stance regarding the rest of your post here that you may or may not agree with.

If someone comes and posts their testimony and experiences, and that testimony includes the fact that they are LGBTQ and includes the way they were treated in the LC for being LGBTQ, I see absolutely no reason why that post and thread should be moved. It should stay on the main forum. To move a thread like that only sends the same message the LGBTQ person has probably gotten already - we don't want you here - which is a horrible message to send, and the wrong one.

I understand why local churcher's, and even believing exLCer's, would kick the LGBTQ down : they cling to the book, and the few verses that appear to condemn it, and not to Jesus' teachings on love (half the verses condemning it are way pre-Jesus - would Jesus say, let him without sin cast the first stone).

How many first stone throwers do we have out here?

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by awareness

I understand why local churcher's, and even believing exLCer's, would kick the LGBTQ down : they cling to the book, and the few verses that appear to condemn it, and not to Jesus' teachings on love (half the verses condemning it are way pre-Jesus - would Jesus say, let him without sin cast the first stone).

How many first stone throwers do we have out here?

I am not making this up. I know at least seven sisters and two brothers who identify as lgbtq and are ex LCers. Do we really want to kick their voices down? How much better are we than the actual LC in dealing with these brothers and sisters, by silencing their experiences? They told me they are scared to post on this forum. Is this right? Is this Christian? Is this love? Where do these people go for support? I cant be the only one handling all of them but yet I am. I am very disappointed

[Sons to Glory!]

I am responding to the last two posts over on the Things Learned/LGBTQ+ thread.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Curious

We are perhaps, guilty of insensitivity.

Hear! Hear! Amen to that!

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Curious

I have been watching-on here from the side-lines. But I do want to say something now.

Thank you, younger generation, ECK’s, for persevering with your message. Though it’s a bit raw and messy, this is the way towards a breakthrough of sorts, in mutual understanding. IMO.

The older generation who have paved the way by learning the harm, then setting up this forum, have done so in recognition that this information is important for the wellbeing of anyone and everyone who has been hurt by the LC.

However, as they are, in the main, individuals who have either maintained or returned to their fundamental Christian faith, this factor has been part of their motivation, and part of their conviction. That is to say, unpacking and unravelling the ways the true message of the bible has been distorted and re-aligned to ‘endorse’ WL and his various, personal agendas is one main theme of this forum. As is obvious I know. However, they have meant no harm in this, its their (mine too) comfortable place.

However, an important ‘blind spot’ has been identified in this thread. In the comradery and enthusiasm of unpacking the false doctrines together, being free to discuss our faith openly is a very normal part of our discussions. We did not know until now, the triggering effect this has the potential to have on the younger generation. To learn that it actually keeps some or potentially many, ECK’s from signing up and entering the discussions, and/or puts ECK’s right off is an important thing to recognize. And well worth being aware of. it is certainly not at all intended. It may seem trivial to long-time posters, who, like me, love to discuss faith. However, these discussions look very different to those whose spiritual abuse is raw. To become aware of, and able thereby to validate and be sensitive to those who are ‘triggered’ by religious talk could really help this forum to be a helpful place to many more individuals. In turn, helping it to achieve its goals, especially towards supporting ECK’s and younger generation.

After all, to serve the demographic speaking out in this thread, is to listen and be prepared to think of ways to create a suitable space that does not talk Christian-ese at them. And realize this is very important. Even if Christian doctrine is discussed, to be done so in a way that does not cross boundaries. Being informed and in mutual understanding about what those boundaries are. I think this is a great development!

I know how off-putting Christianity is when delivered in a 'religious spirit' from my own personal history. I recognized that religious tone taking over in my meetings with LC'ers and that contributed to my ceasing to meet. If conversations here are perceived in that tone by those whose only experience has been in such an atmosphere, then no wonder it becomes a non-starter. I get it.

We are perhaps, guilty of insensitivity.

Curious, this post allowed me to breathe again. Thanks for being one of the very few who seemed to understand what the issue has been the past few days. I hope members and lurkers can read and comprehend and take to heart what you have written.