RE: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

[aron]

Originally Posted by Hope

Dear sister in Christ,

I just read your letter regarding you and your husband's experience in the LC. I posted some on the site "Local Church Discussions." I posted as "Hope...

Your story was so very devastating to read. I feel to write to encourage and confirm. My heart is so broken for what you have suffered. …

In 1989, I quietly left the LC movement. No regrets, just thanksgivings. Your story just about took my breath. I am so thankful I missed out on the terrible suffering you and your husband endured. Surely you are in our prayers!!!

In Christ,

Don Rutledge

One of the protests of the Blended Brothers to the Casteel's FB letter was that it didn't follow the necessary pattern of private fellowship, but went public immediately.

Bill Mallon, John Ingalls and others tried the private fellowship route. I consider Don's testimony probably second only to John Ingalls, in showing what the experience in the Local Churches was initially like, and how it transmuted over time.

The threshold for "tell it to the church" has long since passed, the criteria met. The time to "shout it from the rooftops" has come.

If anyone hasn't read Don's testimony, it's eye-opening, showing what's behind all the hifalutin verbiage of "organic", "processed", "intrinsic" and "consummated". Like the Casteels, this was an insider, who got to see behind the veil, behind the "proper ministry" pretense. This ministry was no more legitimate than a traveling roadshow, calling in the village rubes, to separate them from their pennies. It is a scam. Impressively managed, well-designed, but a scam.

The title phrase refers to the moment when a con artist finishes the "play" and takes the mark's money. If a con is successful, the mark does not realize he has been cheated until the con men are long gone, if at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sting

I did not want to post this update on Jo's Facebook account on her original post. Because I don't know if it's still active with the account and don't want to provoke a bee's nest or open a can of worms. Because even though I believe 100 instantly unfriended her and others flat out blocked her members of the church are still her friends to monitor.

Anyways, the churches are in the midst of the winte training and two years later James Lee has not forgot about Jo. In message 5 he attacked her. He spent time talking about disobedience, deputy authority, self, flesh and rebellion. The message was on Amalek.

James said being possessed by a demon is more serious and severe than witchcraft, etc. He was trying to say the above points will allow or invite a demon to enter a person. And that the demon is so subtle and clever. Said this was in the last rebellion of 2 years ago. Keep in mind I recently red Jo's letter and then listened to the FTTA fellowship regarding it.

James said the demon is so clever and subtle yet vicious and aggressive in how it writes and talks. I immediately knew he was talking about our sister. Yes she is my sister.

Anyways, I felt to share this. I have been in the church my whole life. But over the years things didn't seem right in the training speaking which I didn't agree. I just left it fly during the conferences and the trainings. I'm still in the church because my parents have been in over 40 years and my dad is a leading one in our locality and know among the elders and co workers.
And a huge issue would be made if I left or attempted to leave because the coworkers are pushing that we are in the end times.

One last thing. I recently learned that my mom was sexual assaulted 30 years ago. He was a older brother a leading one. Maybe a elder. He was invited over to our house and was talking to my dad. My mom prepared snacks and went out to bring them in the house. My dad didn't come in the house right away. The guy came behind and grabbed and fondled her breasts. My mom shocked and scared broke loose and ran away scared in side and didn't tell my dad until recently. Later on her best friend back then said she was also sexually assaulted by the same guy. On three occasions he kissed her in the lips. He was doing maintenance work at a brother's business and she was a secretary. He always showed up when she was alone. And afterwards told her that she knows both of them needed it.

I have learned that his son is one of those that have committed sexual assault several times in the past.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

...
1. James said being possessed by a demon is more serious and severe than witchcraft, etc. He was trying to say the above points will allow or invite a demon to enter a person. And that the demon is so subtle and clever. Said this was in the last rebellion of 2 years ago. Keep in mind I recently red Jo's letter band then listened to the ftta fellowship regarding it.

James said the demon is so clever and subtle yet vicious and aggressive in how it writes and talks. I immediately knew he was talking about our sister. Yes she is my sister.


2. One last thing. I recently learned that my mom was sexual assaulted 30 years ago. He was a older brother a leading one. Maybe a elder. He was invited over to our house and was talking to my dad. My mom prepared snacks and went out to bring them in the house. My dad didn't come in the house right away. The guy came behind and grabbed and fondled her breasts. My mom shocked and scared broke loose and ran away scared in side and didn't tell my dad until recently. Later on her best friend back then said she was also sexually assaulted by the same guy. On three occasions he kissed her in the lips. He was doing maintenance work at a brother's business and she was a secretary. He always showed up when she was alone. And afterwards told her that she knows both of them needed it.

I have learned that his son is one of those that have committed sexual assault several times in the past.

From your two comments, we can see that James Lee is correct about demonic affliction.

There is an old saying: "the pot calling the kettle 'black' ". James Lee himself is not exempt from demonic affliction. Where there is sin, demons have legal ground to attack. We have heard many examples of LC Leadership condoning, covering, committing, sexual assault. This is sin. Yet James Lee points fingers at others. JLee is the black pot calling others "black".

The demons surely must be laughing.

Nell

[Zezima]

Why don’t they publicly take any accountably for what she wrote in the letter? Instead they double down, and blame everything else but themselves. It’s really sad.

They care more about their image than they do about caring for the flock.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Zezima

Why don’t they publicly take any accountability for what she wrote in the letter? Instead they double down, and blame everything else but themselves. It’s really sad.

They care more about their image than they do about caring for the flock.

Exactly, Zezima!

All notable Recovery leaders use shaming, the military practice of "dress downs." Supposedly this was "recovered" by a sister in China named Barber. As the story goes, she taught Nee, who taught Lee, who taught all of the current leaders.

They use indiscriminate shaming and public rebukes, lambastes, on a regular basis, mainly in the brothers' meetings, but also in trainings, in order to maintain their clearly delineated lines of authority. Remember -- "it" only rolls down hill, as the saying goes. One can only shame those beneath him, never above, instead all those above must be "covered." Understand how that works?

Their system is not biblical. It's fake spirituality. It's the hallmark of abusive leadership. It creates a clearly defined hierarchy. Nee said clearly, "when you walk into a room, you should immediately look to see who you should submit to." The implications were immediate -- all must submit to him. Same with Lee. Same with Kangas.

The Bible, however, never authorizes this practice of public censure. This is to lord it over the church of God. (I Peter 5.3) The Bible does tell us to rebuke those who sin, especially the leaders who sin. (I Timothy 5.19-21) This should be done without prejudice or partiality, like was done with Lee's own reprobate sons, Philip and Timothy.

We often discuss the dangers of the Recovery practice of "deputy authority" on this forum, and we should, because so many have been hurt by it. One of the "weapons" used to enforce this twisted authority is public shaming from the bully pulpit. Shaming instills fear in all the members. But Biblical fear should be directed towards sin and towards God, and not some supposed human authority figure, such as the MOTA.

Consider how this inorganic system opens wide the doors of corruption in the Recovery. The leaders are never accountable. Their sins must be "covered." Anyone who speaks their conscience is soundly smeared and quarantined before all. The members then learn nothing spiritually profitable, rather all manners of abuse and sin get repeated. And false shaming maintains the hierarchical system, hermetically sealed from the Light of Day, from prophets sent by God to rescue them.

I had previously a few months ago looked into the accounts people who have left the church. Mainly, because of the recovery wide message of the end times and how the coworkers are speaking. And how many saints have been acting because Trump lost the election and the 50/50 slit of differing views on the pandemic. Basically paranoid, selfish or no sympathy and empathy. Some call it plandemic. And many saints have actually died. Some localities have had major infections. And after near death experiences they're still anti vaccine and masks. When meeting on zoom they refuse to assemble because they think saints are cowards. But will meet in person with no masks. Other churches require masks in door. You have your right to opinions and choice. But I'm letting this community what is going on and the latest.

I do need to add when saints got sick other saints thought they were doctors and recommended right wing recommended treatments. One brother had such a bad reaction he felt like dying. Other saints in the beginning deny they had covid and that it was a flu.

But what got me to post was James Lee saying our sister was possessed by a demon which he said is worse than witchcraft. How the demon is so clever and unique in how it speaks and writes. He said the last rebellion which was exactly two years ago his exact words. This I had to share with everyone.

[gr8ful]

I'm saddened but not surprised to hear that James Lee, or any other Blended Brother, would accuse a sister in the Lord of being demon possessed. Considering that the Lord's Recovery has been waning in past years without any sign of reviving, the anxiety of the leadership must be at an all-time high. Thus, grasping at whatever they can to stem the attrition (if not exodus), flailing against imagined monsters is an expected Quixotic response.

With the advent of the ubiquitously-accessible Internet, authoritarians of all kinds are losing their ability to control the information flow to their subjects. While governments like China can set up nation-enveloping firewalls to reduce unwanted criticism, religious groups like the JWs and the Lord's Recovery must rely on policing their people through fear and threats. "Covering the brothers," a policy just like the Catholic church's policy towards sexual predators in the priesthood, won't last long in the modern era. Nor will claims of unique possession of God's up-to-date speaking survive a quick study of other (non-recommended) sources.

While the shameful accusations and blaming of innocents continues, the reality is the audience of the leaders of the Lord's Recovery is shrinking, the influence is waning. As with other isolated and isolating groups, as the input of new voices evaporates, the message concentrates -- becoming more intense in every sense -- and the reaction against any questioning or challenge of veracity will result in a stronger, more vile attacking response.

More dire "crucial words" against dissent, more feverous cries of the rapidly approaching End Times, more wild claims of the specialness of the "remnant" that remain faithful -- this is what awaits those beholden to The Lord's Recovery as it follows the path of the James Taylorites (Plymouth Brethren).

I want to make it clear that James was not the one who assaulted my mom or her friend another sister in the church. It was the father of a leading one who assaulted sisters. And his son ended up doing the same and being just like him. I wanted to clarify this. Thanks.

My mom is still in the church but her friend has left. Saints say she left because she was influenced and poisoned by a rebellion. I'm not sure if the elders and coworkers should get involved in saints personal lives but her ex was very controlling and drove her to the verge of suicide. But after three times of coming back she left. He met a sister in so called Christianity and divorced within a few years. He finally went to another state and found a sister in the church to marry.

So my question is should the church get involved in personal lives? If so, what can they do if the teaching turn the brothers into this of saying they have the headship and authority over the wife.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

So my question is should the church get involved in personal lives? If so, what can they do if the teaching turn the brothers into this of saying they have the headship and authority over the wife.

It can be rhetorical question, but I will put my two cents.

Very often we come to the same trap of wrong thinking again!

What is CHURCH actually? Group of individuals.
Ecclesia was in Brusselles demonstrating just recently. So who was arrested?
Crowd ( ecclesia) or some individuals with certain names?
The same is with Your question.
Should crowd get involved in personal live? How?
But should individual be involved in? It depends how far You allow him.
Friends-saints knows more than saints which we do not know. This is obvious.
So letting strangers to deal with our private and sensitive problems ( doesn't matter if we call them elders or super holly servants) is riskful.
Trust and love is foundation of local group of believers called usually as church. But trust we build over the years. This construction is also proved in Bible.
If we take off trust ( built on troubles we went through) and love, then we will have only organization. If situation is so, it is better to call social worker.
I should not laughing, I know.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I want to make it clear that James was not the one who assaulted my mom or her friend another sister in the church. It was the father of a leading one who assaulted sisters. And his son ended up doing the same and being just like him. I wanted to clarify this. Thanks.

My mom is still in the church but her friend has left. Saints say she left because she was influenced and poisoned by a rebellion. I'm not sure if the elders and coworkers should get involved in saints personal lives but her ex was very controlling and drove her to the verge of suicide. But after three times of coming back she left. He met a sister in so called Christianity and divorced within a few years. He finally went to another state and found a sister in the church to marry.

So my question is should the church get involved in personal lives? If so, what can they do if the teaching turn the brothers into this of saying they have the headship and authority over the wife.

Thanks for the clarification and for making sure you are not pointing fingers by implication. Sadly I can think of another father/son duo in the church who are sexual predators, that based on your description are not the ones you are talking about. I'm devastated there are more than one.

I can only say a little bit here, but the local church is, again, like many other abusive churches. In the marriage relationship, they think this is all that is said about the marriage dynamic:

Ephesians 5:22-24
22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.
24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

But they repeatedly forget the next part of the chapter, which is:

Ephesians 5:25-33
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church—
30 for we are members of his body.
31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”
32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church.
33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Obviously each marriage situation is different, but from what I have seen about how the elders handle them, the problem is usually not that the wife will not submit, but that the husband will not sacrifice himself for her. A submissive wife is submitting to a sacrificial husband....to a husband that loves her as he loves himself. But when the husband does not do that and instead lords it over her, claims his domineering authority, is abusive, the Bible does not say we are to submit to abuse. The wife's submission is part of the whole, and the other part of that whole includes a husband who gives himself up for her. The elders hardly ever admonish the husband, but usually always blame the wife. And more abuse is allowed to stand. Sin is protected again and the victim is blamed.

Thank you for bringing all this up again to remind us to continue to pray and take action in whatever way we can.

Trapped

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Nell

From your two comments, we can see that James Lee is correct about demonic affliction.

There is an old saying: "the pot calling the kettle 'black' ". James Lee himself is not exempt from demonic affliction. Where there is sin, demons have legal ground to attack. We have heard many examples of LC Leadership condoning, covering, committing, sexual assault. This is sin. Yet James Lee points fingers at others. JLee is the black pot calling others "black".

The demons surely must be laughing.

Nell

I grew up being taught that we should not lie. Lying was a sin and violated one of the Ten Commandments.

Actually the 9th Commandment is different from lying. The actual command is “Thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.” Lying is terrible, but bearing false witness is pure evil. Most lies simply protect oneself from responsibility. We lie to wrongly deflect accountability. Adam lied after disobeying God in the garden.

Bearing false witness, however, condemns an innocent person. Innocent people have been executed and imprisoned for life because of false witnesses. In this regard, bearing false witness is as evil as murder.

This is what LSM leaders do to those who expose their corruption. They called John Ingalls and others “leprous rebels.” They now say the widowed sister Jo Casteel is demon possessed. Horrible!

These “whistleblowers” are not strangers to LSM. They were very close “neighbors.” They served at LSM. Today’s training speakers at LSM are not only pathological liars, but worse, they all bear false witness against their own neighbors. They lie, they libel, they slander, they bear false witness, they deceive all the trainees. Why? They hate the light, because their deeds are evil. (John 3.19)

May God have mercy on these people.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I did not want to post this update on Jo's Facebook account on her original post. Because I don't know if it's still active with the account and don't want to provoke a bee's nest or open a can of worms. Because even though I believe 100 instantly unfriended her and others flat out blocked her members of the church are still her friends to monitor.

Anyways, the churches are in the midst of the winte training and two years later James Lee has not forgot about Jo. In message 5 he attacked her. He spent time talking about disobedience, deputy authority, self, flesh and rebellion. The message was on Amalek.

James said being possessed by a demon is more serious and severe than witchcraft, etc. He was trying to say the above points will allow or invite a demon to enter a person. And that the demon is so subtle and clever. Said this was in the last rebellion of 2 years ago. Keep in mind I recently red Jo's letter band then listened to the ftta fellowship regarding it.

James said the demon is so clever and subtle yet vicious and aggressive in how it writes and talks. I immediately knew he was talking about our sister. Yes she is my sister.

Anyways, I felt to share this. I have been in the church my whole life. But over the years things didn't seem right in the training speaking which I didn't agree. I just left it fly during the conferences and the trainings. I'm still in the church because my parents have been in over 40 years and my dad is a leading one in our locality and know among the elders and co workers.
And a huge issue would be made if I left or attempted to leave because the coworkers are pushing that we are in the end times.

One last thing. I recently learned that my mom was sexual assaulted 30 years ago. He was a older brother a leading one. Maybe a elder. He was invited over to our house and was talking to my dad. My mom prepared snacks and went out to bring them in the house. My dad didn't come in the house right away. The guy came behind and grabbed and fondled her breasts. My mom shocked and scared broke loose and ran away scared in side and didn't tell my dad until recently. Later on her best friend back then said she was also sexually assaulted by the same guy. On three occasions he kissed her in the lips. He was doing maintenance work at a brother's business and she was a secretary. He always showed up when she was alone. And afterwards told her that she knows both of them needed it.

I have learned that his son is one of those that have committed sexual assault several times in the past.

Unregistered,

Please, I beg of you, pay attention to the "things didn't seem right" and "which I didn't agree" parts of you that are raising the red flags. I was a church kid too, and I spent so many years walking around with those red flags not even knowing they were red flags, but instead, thinking I was the problem and that God hated me.

I thoroughly understand the "a huge issue would be made if I left" etc. I know numerous members who are directly and indirectly related to elders, co-workers, big and small, and I can tell you - no matter who you are, you can leave. It is possible. It won't be easy, and there will be slander about you, and relationships will be damaged, but if God is calling you to, you can leave.

Can I ask you - do you think there is an issue before God if you left? In other words, do you know that God is okay with you leaving the local church, and your main issue is with the people's reactions? Or do you think that there is actually a spiritual issue with leaving, and that God would not be happy?

I am so saddened and angry to hear about what happened to your mom 30 years ago. It sounds like she walked alone with that burden for almost three decades. That kind of experience can bring deep shame and guilt to a person who did nothing to deserve the shame and guilt. All the shame, all the blame, all the guilt goes upon the head of the leading brother who perpetrated the assault upon your mom. All of it. And for him to tell her that both of them, including her, "needed it" means he is a calculated predator. After he sexually assaulted her, his speaking to her this way is continued psychological abuse and manipulation.

The other full brunt of the blame goes upon the head of the co-workers and elders who teach "covering the brothers" and "submitting to deputy authority". The local church protects sin and abuses victims. I don't know your situation near well enough to give a specific response (nor am I remotely qualified to), but I hope your mom can receive some kind of Christian counseling or can come to understand the dynamics of sexual and spiritual abuse and that she is not to blame. We have had a few posts by an "unregistered" the past couple days, and I'm not sure if they are the same person. If not, I'll recommend to you the same I recommended on another post.......that you get these two books:

The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse by Johnsen and VanVonderen, and
Healing Spiritual Abuse by Ken Blue

They don't deal so much with sexual abuse, but with the false teachings about how churches like this continue to hurt victims who have already been hurt. If you want information on sexual abuse in the church, Diane Langberg is a wonderful proponent and advocate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-UC6B6Hhd0

That's a talk of hers on misuse of authority in the church. I cannot recall if she speaks about sexual abuse in that video, but she does have other excellent video talks on YouTube about sexual abuse and the heart of God to those who have been abused. If I can find some, I will post them here.

Please continue to post here if you'd like. We welcome your perspective, thoughts, experiences, and insight.

Trapped

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Anyways, the churches are in the midst of the winte training and two years later James Lee has not forgot about Jo. In message 5 he attacked her. He spent time talking about disobedience, deputy authority, self, flesh and rebellion. The message was on Amalek.

Anyways, I felt to share this. I have been in the church my whole life. But over the years things didn't seem right in the training speaking which I didn't agree. I just left it fly during the conferences and the trainings. I'm still in the church because my parents have been in over 40 years and my dad is a leading one in our locality and know among the elders and co workers.
And a huge issue would be made if I left or attempted to leave because the coworkers are pushing that we are in the end times.

Let me prophesy on this.
1. Disobedience is relative. Disobedience to whom? If Jo Casteel's speaking was under the headship of God, I don't consider Jo disobedient. Rather the brothers considered Jo disobedient to them.
2. Deputy Authority, that is a teaching of men trying to usurp God's headship. Did you ever read the prophets submitting to the kings as their deputy authority? It is no coincidence why my youngest son was named Nathan.
3. Rebellion, who is rebelling against who? The American Revolution ended in the 18th century. As I've said before if our sister Jo is under God's headship, she's not rebelling against God.
4. Trainings, LSM is just like those 6 companies that own 90% of the media. They seek to control the sound bites, talking points, and prevent as Paul Harvey used to say "the other side of the story" from being told.
No other venue is ripe with opportunity to get the talking points in front than the bi-annual trainings. It didn't start with Jo. We saw it as a precursor to the Great Lakes turmoil, the late 1980's turmoil, and so on.

[ACuriousFellow]

Ironically, I read about Jo Casteel's letter after I left The Lord's Recovery. The same stands for all the history of the Local Churches. I saw enough for myself without the "poison" of "negative speakers." My heart was deeply troubled and moved to see how widespread, both geographically and chronologically, the troubles of The Lord's Recovery were. It saddened me more deeply still to see how they demonized their sister's cry for help and portrayed it rather as an attack from Satan. It shook me to my core to see how callous the so-called "leading ones" were and how over 900 graduates of the Full-Time Training were giving their amens to all of it. This is suppose to be the next generation of leaders in The Lord's Recovery? My heart is heavy thinking about it. I wonder how many of them left that "Special Fellowship" with a truly clean conscience. How many of them are wondering now, and if they are wondering, how many of them will seriously consider the issue and act on it? My hopes are high, but my expectations are low.

[GraceAlone]

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

Ironically, I read about Jo Casteel's letter after I left The Lord's Recovery. The same stands for all the history of the Local Churches. I saw enough for myself without the "poison" of "negative speakers." My heart was deeply troubled and moved to see how widespread, both geographically and chronologically, the troubles of The Lord's Recovery were. It saddened me more deeply still to see how they demonized their sister's cry for help and portrayed it rather as an attack from Satan. It shook me to my core to see how callous the so-called "leading ones" were and how over 900 graduates of the Full-Time Training were giving their amens to all of it. This is suppose to be the next generation of leaders in The Lord's Recovery? My heart is heavy thinking about it. I wonder how many of them left that "Special Fellowship" with a truly clean conscience. How many of them are wondering now, and if they are wondering, how many of them will seriously consider the issue and act on it? My hopes are high, but my expectations are low.

ACuriousFellow (welcome, by the way!), I’ve had similar thoughts. When I read the ShepherdingWords website that came out in the wake of the Casteels’ letter, it had the opposite effect on me as what it was intended to do. I was still in the LC, but somehow I felt like a more apt title for the site would have been “Gaslighting Words.” And the tone and format (no bylines, no room for reader responses) lacked Christian humility or any acknowledgement of even the possibility of having caused harm. Once I later found out about the way the Casteels had been spoken about both publicly in that Special Fellowship and in private conversation, I was well and truly horrified.

[ACuriousFellow]

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

ACuriousFellow (welcome, by the way!), I’ve had similar thoughts. When I read the ShepherdingWords website that came out in the wake of the Casteels’ letter, it had the opposite effect on me as what it was intended to do. I was still in the LC, but somehow I felt like a more apt title for the site would have been “Gaslighting Words.” And the tone and format (no bylines, no room for reader responses) lacked Christian humility or any acknowledgement of even the possibility of having caused harm. Once I later found out about the way the Casteels had been spoken about both publicly in that Special Fellowship and in private conversation, I was well and truly horrified.

Hello there, GraceAlone

From what I've seen in Jo and Greg Casteel's posts and on a few other forums, there was a comments section on a post made by The Lord's Recovery where some people voiced their concerns, but the comments were quickly removed.

[ACuriousFellow]

Anyone ever wonder what would happen if Jo Casteel's letter was mysteriously disseminated on all the college campuses that TLR operates in?