Things Learned from LGBTQ+ Discussions

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

I thought you are fervently pro-life. So suicide should concern you if social pressure from family and religious community, are causing gays to consider suicide.

No one wants anybody to commit suicide - then the devil wins. Societal pressures, apart from God and "religious do-gooders" operating out of the flesh, are not good. The message, as always, is we need The Savior.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

No one wants anybody to commit suicide - then the devil wins. Societal pressures, apart from God and "religious do-gooders" operating out of the flesh, are not good. The message, as always, is we need The Savior.

Are you saying that gay conversion therapy is operating out of the flesh, not God? Or that you’re taking responsibility away from these programs and blaming “darkness” or Satan for leading lgbtq youth to commit suicide? Consider these two people’s experiences in gay conversion therapy:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.co...ay/%3famp=true

https://www.thecut.com/2018/01/conve...xperience.html

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Are you saying that gay conversion therapy is operating out of the flesh, not God? Or that you’re taking responsibility away from these programs and blaming “darkness” or Satan for leading lgbtq youth to commit suicide? Consider these two people’s experiences in gay conversion therapy:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.co...ay/%3famp=true

https://www.thecut.com/2018/01/conve...xperience.html

Yeah, I don't know about these "conversion therapies" ---> seems like a bunch of manmade psychology (flesh) to me. Can God use others in something like that to affect real, lasting change? Sure, but I suspect it's usually the flesh trying to make legalistic changes in others (Ohio may disagree).

Overall, my views on such things generally follow the reasoning Cal Thomas and Ed Dobson put forth in their 1999 book, "Blinded by Might; Why the religious right can't save America." Basically it says that we might try to do a whole bunch of things to correct the moral situation, but it won't work well because no matter how well-intentioned, it's largely just the religious flesh trying to correct the unmoral flesh. America, and all it's issues, needs The Savior. Period.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Yeah, I don't know about these "conversion therapies" ---> seems like a bunch of manmade psychology (flesh) to me. Can God use others in something like that to affect real, lasting change? Sure, but I suspect it's usually the flesh trying to make legalistic changes in others (Ohio may disagree).

Overall, my views on such things generally follow the reasoning Cal Thomas and Ed Dobson put forth in their 1999 book, "Blinded by Might; Why the religious right can't save America." Basically it says that we might try to do a whole bunch of things to correct the moral situation, but it won't work well because no matter how well-intentioned, it's largely just the religious flesh trying to correct the unmoral flesh. America, and all it's issues, needs The Savior. Period.

Yes, we need a Savior, but a civil society also needs laws, police, and courts to protect its people, otherwise we have lawlessness.

The Bible often mentions wise counsel. I don't think that should be considered "man made psychology (flesh)." Even Paul says that the Law is good and is a child conductor.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Yes, we need a Savior, but a civil society also needs laws, police, and courts to protect its people, otherwise we have lawlessness.

The Bible often mentions wise counsel. I don't think that should be considered "man made psychology (flesh)." Even Paul says that the Law is good and is a child conductor.

Of course. But we all know the flesh produces nothing, and there is a lot of it being produced by Christians . . .

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Of course. But we all know the flesh produces nothing, and there is a lot of it being produced by Christians . . .

If we blame the flesh then we're all in trouble. We're all 100% flesh thru and thru ... and we have to tend to it 24/7. That's the nature of being fleshly beings. We can't escape it. It places demands on us constantly ... and everyday of our lives.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

If we blame the flesh then we're all in trouble. We're all 100% flesh thru and thru ... and we have to tend to it 24/7. That's the nature of being fleshly beings. We can't escape it. It places demands on us constantly ... and everyday of our lives.

Au contraire mon frère! As Christians with the NEW BIRTH that is not our nature any more! We have been born from above and made partakers of the divine nature. But we still have the flesh, however, which is not our "nature" or who we are.