Negative Speaking

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Curious

In fact, thinking about it, WL did care an awful lot for good and evil. At least to present the LC as good not evil. That is, he certainly understood the need to use a 'good' facade to attract newcomers, as if people would think the LC to be bad they wouldn't join. So he used the impression of good to cover over doing evil. And that's the context the above mentioned book explains.

In fact, thinking more about it, WL actually redefined for the LC movement what is good and what is evil.

His definitions superseded those in the scripture. His definitions of good and evil replaced those in the Bible. The LC's today operate according to WL's new definitions for what is good and what is evil.

[Curious]

Originally Posted by Ohio

In fact, thinking more about it, WL actually redefined for the LC movement what is good and what is evil.

His definitions superseded those in the scripture. His definitions of good and evil replaced those in the Bible. The LC's today operate according to WL's new definitions for what is good and what is evil.

That reads to me as a really profound and true insight. Yes, his own self-serving definition, fed to his followers as truth. Illustrating that us humans cannot seperate from the concept of good and evil. Weather twisted or true, it is an unavoidable fact of our existence that it sits at the core of us, including any fool that thinks they can develop a theology that dismisses it!

I am seeing the mistake of Rick Joyner in this light. Its like he found a good puzzle piece, with the main content of his book, but he put his puzzle piece in completely the wrong place in the puzzle! (the theological position he gave it). And the simple reason why? He's not been part of a group that abused this Genesis account in the way WL did. So he hasn't seen that wisdom, or perceived how it can be an opening for evil to be done.

That's where the gift of particular wisdom comes from our own experiences and lessons learned, then these then can serve and protect the whole body of Christ from error. Just me sharing my own reflections on this issue. (IMOO)..... 🐄

[Curious]

I can't help it, I so badly want to share this. The problem of persons rising up in the church and criticising all others, narrowing their followers to listen only to themselves, then childishly hating on the others and stating one day they will bow the knee to jesus, when really they mean bow the knee to themselves..... well its all here in this short youtube video.

Another person, another time, a different set of peculiars, but same exact intention, method and goal.


https://youtu.be/VqYxDIgBp6Y

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Curious

I can't help it, I so badly want to share this. The problem of persons rising up in the church and criticising all others, narrowing their followers to listen only to themselves, then childishly hating on the others and stating one day they will bow the knee to jesus, when really they mean bow the knee to themselves.....

Often I hear warnings about wolves creeping into the church in sheep's clothing, but this phenomena of "rising up in the church" is far more subtle and dangerous. Apostle Paul actually warned us explicitly about this in Acts 20.30. The Lord used this verse to expose the Recovery system of error to me.

The note in the Recovery Version here totally misses the Apostle's warning. It's not about luring the sheep away to form another flock, but to draw away the flock from God Himself, who purchased us with His own blood, to himself.

And what are these "perverted teachings?" They are clever twistings and cunning distortions, like criticizing all others, exalting your own ministry, preventing other ministries in the church, etc. Teaching about Jesus, yet demanding absolute loyalty. Using the Bible to peddle your own ministry, corrupting others' conscience, suing and slandering those who would hold you accountable. Paul called this "walking in craftiness," hiding all the shameful things, in order to maintain some false but pristine image to delude your faithful followers.

[Raptor]

Do you think this is a clever twisting in this video? Apparently, most of the message seems to be good, on how to read the Bible by going to the Lord, praying and receiving light, revelation and vision. What do you think about this part of the video?

But right at the end WL talks about how Noah, Abraham and Moses were each raised up to accomplish God´s move in the age. Then he talks about how Peter and Paul were the same, and how now we need to pay attention to revelation and the move of God in this age. Is this a hidden suggestion that he was then the minister of the age?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwmJDX4Rj-I

[Curious]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Do you think this is a clever twisting in this video? Apparently, most of the message seems to be good, on how to read the Bible by going to the Lord, praying and receiving light, revelation and vision. What do you think about this part of the video?

But right at the end WL talks about how Noah, Abraham and Moses were each raised up to accomplish God´s move in the age. Then he talks about how Peter and Paul were the same, and how now we need to pay attention to revelation and the move of God in this age. Is this a hidden suggestion that he was then the minister of the age?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwmJDX4Rj-I

Yes I do think this talk from WL is set up to let the viewer come to their own conclusion that WL is indeed the man for the end times.

What I wonder is, are there any LCers who have been through law school? WL and Gene Kim make multiple unsubstantiated claims. WL has it, as demonstrated by Raptor's sample, that the rest of Christianity has a sheet of paper separating them from being able to see God face to face. WL does not have this sheet of paper in front of his face. How does he know this? He knows that every single Christian in the whole world has this sheet of paper permanently in front of his face! How ridiculous! If the sheet of paper could be removed from his eyes then surely God is capable of removing it from someone else's!

Backtracking to the sample I attached to my last post, Gene Kim likewise presents alot of false information about these other Christian speakers who have Internet channels. To the point where he is flat out wrong about John Macarthur, as pointed out by the host of the video. Anyone legally trained would want to clarify the claims, and would discover the lies and the unsoundness would be pretty obvious. Even his childish use of the surname 'slick' and careless accusation 'these guys are jerks', not even an intelligent critique. So I wonder if, outside of lawyers employed by LRM headquarters, if legally trained minds are a missing people group from LC congregations?

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Curious

What I wonder is, are there any LCers who have been through law school?

Yes, there are lawyers in the LC.

I can think of one brother who either serves at, works for, or is at a minimum in cahoots with DCP, who is a lawyer.

[Curious]

I've just had an epiphany of sorts on this subject. To replace God's standard of good and evil, with instead, a standard that teaches getting a 'sense' of 'life' or 'death', is actual direct rebellion and throwing off of God's objective standard. This standard, the 10 commandments for a clear example, was delivered directly by Him, to expose us all as sinners, as none of us can attain it WL replaced that with a standard that is subject to corruption with no recourse to truth as God determines, or to repentance.

To be purely subjective may give liberty to the Holy Spirit, but also does not protect against the drivers and self deception of the carnal nature. In fact the very thing RJ warns against in his book.

WL, as ohio rightly points out, then filled the void with his own ultimate an non-biblical based standard of good and evil:

For some examples
Christianity, evil, LC, good
Personal opinion - evil. WL's opinion, good
Individuality - evil. Conformity, good.

And on and on it goes. And it will create conflict between people because it is subjective to each person's whims and desires, which will inevitably clash! They are no solution, each person a law unto themselves and their own subjective experience. God have mercy.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Do you think this is a clever twisting in this video? Apparently, most of the message seems to be good, on how to read the Bible by going to the Lord, praying and receiving light, revelation and vision. What do you think about this part of the video?

But right at the end WL talks about how Noah, Abraham and Moses were each raised up to accomplish God´s move in the age. Then he talks about how Peter and Paul were the same, and how now we need to pay attention to revelation and the move of God in this age. Is this a hidden suggestion that he was then the minister of the age?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwmJDX4Rj-I

I only had a short time while getting ready for bed to listen to the last ~4-5 minutes of this clip, but the message is clearly that the OT and NT special people saw and were given a revelation of what God was doing, and that now we are at the end of the NT age and "millions and millions of Christians have the Bible but have no revelation" and "they don't know what God is doing today", BUUUUUUT...........WE DO!! We have the revelation! We know!

Yeah, the implication is that "we" know because Lee, the fulfillment of Noah/Abe/Moses/Peter/Paul, gave us the revelation from God.

It's been a while since I've listened to Lee rather than to the current co-workers. Although I grew up listening to him, now, being away from the LC for a while, it's very hard for me to listen to him anymore. I think some of his draw was simply the way he spoke - slightly hushed and husky, the melodic waver, the "aura", and the myriad of multi-syllabic words said with an accent that, kinda sometimes didn't really mean much or add anything to the message. It's so unique....it's like this kind, hushed, fatherly, grandfatherly, sweet......denigration and tossing aside of most of the Body of Christ.