New Light from Old

Hope · 07-22-2008, 08:17 PM

No djohnson it was a power struggle. PL was part of the show but it was a power struggle. Yes, WL seemed to take the first step in their getting together but MR told me how he had been waiting for the opportunity to be with WL and in coordination with him.

Willie S told me that one day we would wake up and a new flag will be waving. MR told me a coup was coming. When I asked him what that meant, he replied, "a violent overthrown of the present regime."

Several of His inner circle told me that MR was "the universal coordinator of the one new man." Dan Towle told me that for he and I to be one I needed to be in the coordination with MR. Dan and others in the inner circle told me that MR was in the position of Peter and was being prepared to be the leading apostle. MR had many history books on great rulers of the past Hannibal etc. He told me he read them in order to learn principles regarding how to run the recovery. I had read many of the books as history is a hobby of mine. I saw MR carry out the strategies of some of these ancient rulers quite well.

MR in his heart believed the local churches needed him to lead them and that WL's role was a Bible teacher. He told his inner circle after WL removed him that only he could put it (the churches) together and TC would be the one who brought him back.

On the other hand MR had many positive points and gifts. I still appreciate some matters in which I was helped by him and there were many that received his help. Maybe even more received help from his wife. They were quite a couple.

I feel so bad for them. MR was too much like WL. No one could get his attention. Both tended to way over estimate their portion and depreciate others. Both failed to recognize though they had spiritual gifts the blessing was on the truth, on the church, on the members of the Body of Christ and not on their person.

I understand that MR came to realize this and has acknowledged that his ambition and pride got the best of him. By the way whoever is without sin can cast the first stone.

For me this whole period of time was so sad for all involved. Eventually WL was way too strong for MR. I was in the meeting at the home of WL when WL decided to deal with MR and to deal with the threat MR posed to his leadership.

I wish I could say I was innocent in all of this and pure as the driven snow. But I was there. Was I all bad? I trust by the Grace of God I was not all bad, but I certainly did play in some of the games. Thank God for his mercy toward me. Let us all come to the feet of the Lord Jesus and take his love and forgiveness for all our sins. I personally have spent time seeking forgiveness for my involvement in any of the political power struggles. Lord, help us!!! If I hurt any who participate on this forum please grant me the favor of your forgiveness and I will be happy if you desire to address my failures directly.

In Christ Jesus there is hope for us all,

Hope, Don Rutledge

djohnson(XLCmember) · 07-22-2008, 08:36 PM

Do you really believe that Rapoport would be that stupid? If he did read all those books and was such a good strategist surely he would know that he could not take over a movement which was about 90% Chinese - a language and culture which he was not from nor part of. I am not suggesting he was not ambitious. But I personally think it is a good thing for a leader to be a man of action and a person who can get things done instead of being a passive wimp.

It is probable he wanted to shake up the status quo and those with vested interests in it - like other jealous leaders - did not want their domains threatened. And no doubt Rapoport made many mistakes which apparently he has repented for. But from what I understand the biggest mistake he made was joining the LCS and letting himself get into the center of the Lee family and LSM quagmire. I suspect he is very happy he escaped when he did!

aron · 07-22-2008, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djohnson

Do you really believe that Rapoport would be that stupid? If he did read all those books and was such a good strategist surely he would know that he could not take over a movement which was about 90% Chinese - a language and culture which he was not from nor part of.

djohnson, look at Benson P. He took over the movement. He just had a little more patience than Max R. Strategy is everything.

UntoHim · 07-22-2008, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djohnson

Do you really believe that Rapoport would be that stupid? If he did read all those books and was such a good strategist surely he would know that he could not take over a movement which was about 90% Chinese - a language and culture which he was not from nor part of

So at this point, in America, the LC was about 90% Chinese? Care to substantiate this figure? Oh, maybe you meant the leadership. Was the leadership of the LC (Elders and Co-Workers) 90% Chinese?

For somebody who has claimed that they simply have family connections and have been to some meetings, you sure seem to know a lot about the inner workings of the movement. But anyway, let's get back to the %90 percent deal.

Nell · 07-22-2008, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djohnson

...But from what I understand the biggest mistake he made was joining the LCS ..

Sorry for dumb questions, but what is the LCS? ---Nell

Hope · 07-22-2008, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djohnson

Do you really believe that Rapoport would be that stupid? If he did read all those books and was such a good strategist surely he would know that he could not take over a movement which was about 90% Chinese - a language and culture which he was not from nor part of. I am not suggesting he was not ambitious. But I personally think it is a good thing for a leader to be a man of action and a person who can get things done instead of being a passive wimp.

It is probable he wanted to shake up the status quo and those with vested interests in it - like other jealous leaders - did not want their domains threatened. And no doubt Rapoport made many mistakes which apparently he has repented for. But from what I understand the biggest mistake he made was joining the LCS and letting himself get into the center of the Lee family and LSM quagmire. I suspect he is very happy he escaped when he did!

Hello dj,

When MR and I were involved in the LC the chinese, at least in Texas and So. Cal were not 90%. In Texas about 5%. Similar in the Northwest. The mid-west was higher, perhaps 35-40%.

dj, you seem to know a lot about this topic. Did you ever know MR? Since you were never in a LC, you are probably making a big reach to assume you knew the motives of other leaders. Furthermore, I would not classify people you never knew as "passive wimps." It never hurts to give others a little benefit of the doubt.

Yes, MR did expect to lead the movement. It was not a matter of cold calculated thought. He, just like WL, saw his calling to be in leadership. He assumed it was God's call for him to head up the "Recovery."

Many times our actions come from good intentions which are found in our self delusions. When MR was attemping to manipulate some of the elders, he no doubt assumed it was for their good and was the Father's will that they come under his "positive" influence.

By the way, brother dj, there were plenty of brothers who would match your standard for leadership. Benson Phillips, Ray Graver, Don Looper, Titus Chu, John So, Bill Freeman, Bill Barker, Gene Gruhler, Ken Unger, Dick Taylor, Howard Higashi and a host of others . "But I personally think it is a good thing for a leader to be a man of action and a person who can get things done instead of being a passive wimp." When MR came to Texas for conferences and he came for several there were hundred and hundreds there. Where did they come from? Not from the work of passive wimps. When MR and JI came to Texas to recruit young people for the churches in Orange County, the churches in Texas gave up 125. They did not pack up and go just because MR made an announcement. They had been raised up by "men of action" and they were consequently men and women of action. The brothers in Texas were far more fruitful than MR. We gained hundreds more and brought many more to salvation and into the church than he. While the church in Anaheim was languishing, we were adding scores and scores of new people and establishing new churches.

dj you got this one wrong. It was a power struggle. I was there.

In Christ Jesus,

Hope, Don Rutledge

Nell · 07-22-2008, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hope

...For me this whole period of time was so sad for all involved. Eventually WL was way too strong for MR. I was in the meeting at the home of WL when WL decided to deal with MR and to deal with the threat MR posed to his leadership.

... If I hurt any who participate on this forum please grant me the favor of your forgiveness and I will be happy if you desire to address my failures directly.

Hope, Don Rutledge

Don,

When was the last time you spoke with Max and his wife? This is certainly a rhetorical question. I sense an amount of regret or something in your tone as you're writing about Max. Maybe you should contact them.

Forgive my meddling. It's just a thought I had while reading what seems to be a heaviness in your heart as you're writing this.

We are all different people today from what we were then. Older and wiser, by His great mercy. The most important thing we need to learn from all of this is that the flesh and blood we once may have wrestled with was not our enemy but our brother. Praise Him that with some of these brothers, there is still time. I think there are matters that the Lord would have us attend to while it is still called "today".

Don't pay any attention to me, Don.

Blessings to you as you continue to chronicle a very sad story that will one day be to Him a glorious victory.

Nell

07-22-2008, 08:17 PM	#1
Hope Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Durham, North Carolina Posts: 313	The Power Struggle No djohnson it was a power struggle. PL was part of the show but it was a power struggle. Yes, WL seemed to take the first step in their getting together but MR told me how he had been waiting for the opportunity to be with WL and in coordination with him. Willie S told me that one day we would wake up and a new flag will be waving. MR told me a coup was coming. When I asked him what that meant, he replied, "a violent overthrown of the present regime." Several of His inner circle told me that MR was "the universal coordinator of the one new man." Dan Towle told me that for he and I to be one I needed to be in the coordination with MR. Dan and others in the inner circle told me that MR was in the position of Peter and was being prepared to be the leading apostle. MR had many history books on great rulers of the past Hannibal etc. He told me he read them in order to learn principles regarding how to run the recovery. I had read many of the books as history is a hobby of mine. I saw MR carry out the strategies of some of these ancient rulers quite well. MR in his heart believed the local churches needed him to lead them and that WL's role was a Bible teacher. He told his inner circle after WL removed him that only he could put it (the churches) together and TC would be the one who brought him back. On the other hand MR had many positive points and gifts. I still appreciate some matters in which I was helped by him and there were many that received his help. Maybe even more received help from his wife. They were quite a couple. I feel so bad for them. MR was too much like WL. No one could get his attention. Both tended to way over estimate their portion and depreciate others. Both failed to recognize though they had spiritual gifts the blessing was on the truth, on the church, on the members of the Body of Christ and not on their person. I understand that MR came to realize this and has acknowledged that his ambition and pride got the best of him. By the way whoever is without sin can cast the first stone. For me this whole period of time was so sad for all involved. Eventually WL was way too strong for MR. I was in the meeting at the home of WL when WL decided to deal with MR and to deal with the threat MR posed to his leadership. I wish I could say I was innocent in all of this and pure as the driven snow. But I was there. Was I all bad? I trust by the Grace of God I was not all bad, but I certainly did play in some of the games. Thank God for his mercy toward me. Let us all come to the feet of the Lord Jesus and take his love and forgiveness for all our sins. I personally have spent time seeking forgiveness for my involvement in any of the political power struggles. Lord, help us!!! If I hurt any who participate on this forum please grant me the favor of your forgiveness and I will be happy if you desire to address my failures directly. In Christ Jesus there is hope for us all, Hope, Don Rutledge

07-22-2008, 08:36 PM	#2
djohnson(XLCmember) Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 318	Do you really believe that Rapoport would be that stupid? If he did read all those books and was such a good strategist surely he would know that he could not take over a movement which was about 90% Chinese - a language and culture which he was not from nor part of. I am not suggesting he was not ambitious. But I personally think it is a good thing for a leader to be a man of action and a person who can get things done instead of being a passive wimp. It is probable he wanted to shake up the status quo and those with vested interests in it - like other jealous leaders - did not want their domains threatened. And no doubt Rapoport made many mistakes which apparently he has repented for. But from what I understand the biggest mistake he made was joining the LCS and letting himself get into the center of the Lee family and LSM quagmire. I suspect he is very happy he escaped when he did! __________________ My greatest joy is knowing Jesus Christ!