Soul & Spirit - Same or Different?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Jo S

If we've learned anything from Nee and Lee is that scripture + spirit can also be dead letter.

It depends on the anointing within as there are more than one (1 Jn 4:1). Satan is a spirit and even he knows scripture. So to be sure we need to thoroughly test all things, including our own "anointing" in prayer and against scripture.

Even a turned cake can be burned if unchecked.

Really Jo!? Satan's spirit is also called the anointing? Please show us this specifically in scripture (and 1st John 4:1 sure doesn't say that).

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Really Jo!? Satan's spirit is also called the anointing? Please show us this specifically in scripture (and 1st John 4:1 sure doesn't say that).

You got me there, StG. However, John is the only author of the New Testament to refer to a Christian's "anointing" (Greek Chrisma). Does this mean that Paul or Peter did not have knowledge of this so called anointing? Of course not, they simply used different terminology to describe what John was alluding to.

I'm sure we can agree that Jesus preformed miracles through the anointing he received from God. With this understanding we can conclude John is speaking of the Holy Spirit's work in a believer's life.

Now if Christ preformed miracles by God's anointing, what do you suppose the false converts, false prophets, and false Christ's speak their prophesies and perform their miracles by? Is it a far stretch to say from a false anointing?

The issue isn't that scripture lacks specific reference to a "false anointing", it's that people mistake demonic influence for God's true anointing.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Jo S

The issue isn't that scripture lacks specific reference to a "false anointing", it's that people mistake demonic influence for God's true anointing.

Agreed. So Spirit AND the word, right?

[Jo S]

StG, here is the issue with your "unturned cake" argument, meaning scriptural knowledge in addition to a spiritual life equates to a healthy Christian life.

If you are operating under a compromised spiritual worldview through a counterfeit "anointing" all the knowledge that you gain from scripture through the lens of that anointing will be tainted as well.

So no, scripture + spirit is not enough. Scripture in agreement with a repentant and Holy Spirit filled life is the aim.

[Sons to Glory!]

We differ. Sounds complicated. Okay . . . at least we have clarity again.

[UntoHim]

Actually, StG, it's not complicated at all. The Holy Spirit, or even our human spirit in conjunction with God's Spirit, would never, ever cause us to believe, think or act in a manner which is contrary to Holy Scripture. And if that's what happens when your "cake" is turned, than we can know for sure that it is not something accepted, much less directed by God.

Originally Posted by Curious

Weather or not the posters on this forum agree that we have a soul and spirit as two separable parts or not, we mostly agree that to believe you are able to separate them yourself to get ‘out of your mind’ where you can be manipulated and controlled by WL is a bad use of the concept of soul and spirit, that replaces sound Christian teaching and ultimately does a great deal of harm, not good. A doorway to exploitation in a typically cultic sense.

You can pretty much ignore everything else that has been posted if you will just get this point that Curious is bringing forth. Is there any doubt whatsoever that "a doorway to exploitation" was opened in the Local Church of Witness Lee? I think what Jo, aron, Curious and moi are trying to get across to you (each in our own, flawed and fallible way) is that there is a grave and present danger in going through that doorway again, especially when we know that God has provided so many other alternatives. I do hear and appreciate your understanding that there are other dangers and extremes out in poor, poor, Christianity, but I think you are really selling God's people, and by extension God himself, short. There are right now, and always has been, more biblical and healthy teachings and practices than those of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee.
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[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Quote Originally Posted by Curious:
Weather or not the posters on this forum agree that we have a soul and spirit as two separable parts or not, we mostly agree that to believe you are able to separate them yourself to get ‘out of your mind’ where you can be manipulated and controlled by WL is a bad use of the concept of soul and spirit, that replaces sound Christian teaching and ultimately does a great deal of harm, not good. A doorway to exploitation in a typically cultic sense.

I do agree with what Curious posted, and also essentially what you said too! So here's my knee-jerk reaction: UntoHim, you always seem to want to paint me in a light that I am somehow defending the practices of the LC to the nth degree! I am not. There was/is abuse and things gone sideways there. Period. I said it once again. Need I repeat myself over and over on this in order that people here understand that I am not trying to champion all things WL/LC!? Not by a long shot!!!

I think it's like bro Ohio said; in the "food fights" we get into here, the one trying to be even a little moderate (aka "middle of the road") gets hit with pie from both sides. However, since almost no one who is pro-LC seems to want to post on here anymore, I'm the one that gets it.

So I get it -->This forum exists to attack (I mean "bring to light") the bad practices and abuses of the LC. And since no LC members seem to have the stones any more to come on here and stand up to the onslaught they will surely receive, then I get to take it. Ain't I the privileged one!? (actually yes!)

So one thing I may be guilty of is starting a thread with the intention of just having some back & forth about a topic. But my error may be in thinking we can do that without always dragging WL or the LC into it. Let me use this admittedly poor illustration to hopefully illustrate what I'm talking about. If I started a thread asking if Cheerios was a better cereal than Cocoa Puffs, I'm hoping to have some simple dialogue around that. But I guess I forget that we're on a forum to disparage (sorry, I mean "bring to light) the evil practices of all things WN/WL/LSM/LC/TLR, and before long someone is bound to say something like, "Well yeah, but what about WL never allowing us to eat Cheerios, and forcing us to only eat Cocoa Puffs!? In fact, he wouldn't even permit us to acknowledge Cheerios ever existed." So again, my bad for thinking we could have a discussion on here without ALWAYS taking a hard turn into all-things-anti-LC-bashing. And then folks seem to want to try and paint me as being pro LC. (once again, I am not, and I ask that you please don't automatically assume that)

Thanks for listening to my little rant for today . . . at least I feel better. But that's my view, for what it's worth, from the middle . . . (don't you pity me now, at least a little? ) Otherwise, hit me with your best shot. (Christ in me still loves you . . . )