What a Lack of Increase Really Means for the LC

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Doggonit

Don't fool yourself my friends, all of the Blended Brothers are fully aware of the downward trend for about 25 years now. The vast majority of FTT grads are Asian imports (Chen kind of admitted such in his little talk). The Lord's Recovery is bleeding out 2nd generation white kids at a rate that will make them unrecognizable to all of us who came in the LC during the heyday of the late 60s - early 70s in about 10 years or so. Maybe sooner.

That's why there is a concerted push these days to mine the college campuses for the "typical American students" (i.e. white kids). I've heard through the extended LC grapevine that the locality having the most success gaining those kids does it by throwing away the LC cultural quirks and tossing aside the ministry and staying far away from Witness Lee. In other words.....they look a lot like "typical Christianity" in their events and meetings with new students. This of course cannot get out in a widespread way, and is seen as borderline "negative".....or else the gig would be up that Witness Lee and the ministry are The Great Big Turn Off of the 21st century to the "typical Americans" they want to replenish their ranks with.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Trapped

That's why there is a concerted push these days to mine the college campuses for the "typical American students" (i.e. white kids). I've heard through the extended LC grapevine that the locality having the most success gaining those kids does it by throwing away the LC cultural quirks and tossing aside the ministry and staying far away from Witness Lee. In other words.....they look a lot like "typical Christianity" in their events and meetings with new students. This of course cannot get out in a widespread way, and is seen as borderline "negative".....or else the gig would be up that Witness Lee and the ministry are The Great Big Turn Off of the 21st century to the "typical Americans" they want to replenish their ranks with.

A hallmark of cults is that they're okay with two personas, or faces - one that outsiders see, safe for initiates and novices, and then there's the "real" group with special in-group readings, terms, practices and relations. If you do well on the outside, and look like "good material", you'll get invited inside the privileged sanctum.

There's a term called Potemkin Village - meaning a false arrangement that's used to throw off inspecting outsiders, and alleviate their concerns. The Potemkin Village is full of well-stocked granaries, shelves are full, people are clean and smiling. Over the ridge and out of sight live the rest of the citizens, discouraged, sick, hungry and disheveled.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village

In the Potemkin Village LC, you can do what you want. (Maybe... electrified guitars! -'gasp') But in the real LC they'll start mentioning "restrictions". That's when you know you're in - the screws are starting to turn. To attract you in they'll "fake it"; then they'll want to know if you can "take it" - and into the Wedding Feast you'll "make it"... if you think I'm silly read the Open Letter by the Casteels. That's how they go after "typical Americans" now: create a fake LC.

Originally Posted by Casteel Letter

We continued on in the church life. A team had been started in our locality close to the time of us moving there. We even bought a house that prioritized having a good layout for the saints and new ones over some of our own family’s needs. When we moved we were ready and eager to enter into the work of taking care of new ones from the campus. We soon learned that our locality was “taking the slow way” approach modeled after the church in Lubbock, TX and that the community saints were not to be involved in the new ones direct care. The slow way in our locality involved using the King James Version with the new ones rather than using the Recovery Version. It also involved slowly introducing carefully selected LSM excerpts from Witness Lee that left out many controversial matters and did not cite the source, leaving out Witness Lee’s name and the publisher, Living Stream Ministry. Witness Lee’s name and LSM would be introduced at a certain point once the new ones were “ready."

We pondered the fact that LSM endorses not properly citing works in the name of gaining new ones considering that LSM itself says, “Any quotation taken from LSM publications should be given a proper citation”

In our locality, only the full-timers and saints specifically handpicked were to have interaction with the new ones. The main way the local saints could be involved was making food for the new ones and dropping it off on the campus. Prayer was encouraged as the primary means to take part in God’s move. There were specific instructions included in the e-mails as to what words you could and couldn’t use with the new ones when you dropped off the food... Here’s an excerpt from one e-mail I received regarding our slow way approach:

“Based on the fellowship shared last Lord's day and since we are touching new contacts on campus that have not been to any church meetings and have had limited contact with any saints outside the Bible study, let us be exercised and sensitive if and when we interact with them. Certain practices and terminology have not been introduced openly to the group, but will be in time, either in the small groups or home meetings. For example, the opening prayer for the time is not filled with "amens", the students are not familiar with term "saints," "church life" or "locality" yet. We pray through our service during this time many will come into our homes and into the church life.”

[aron]

Originally Posted by aron

In the Potemkin Village LC, you can do what you want. (Maybe... electrified guitars! -'gasp') But in the real LC they'll start mentioning "restrictions". That's when you know you're in - the screws are starting to turn. To attract you in they'll "fake it"; then they'll want to know if you can "take it" - and into the Wedding Feast you'll "make it"... if you think I'm silly read the Open Letter by the Casteels. That's how they go after "typical Americans" now: create a fake LC.

There's always the danger that some will think the Potemkin Village LC is preferable. In other words, they'll refuse the two-tiered approach, and want to make the whole LC acceptable! No restrictions! What!?!

Then the divisions will start - the "pure remnant" who want ''the original vision of our brother" versus those willing to adapt to the 21st century. Here's a quote from a spinoff of a high-demand pseudo-Christian group, after their Guru died.

Originally Posted by Eternal Church of God

Church of God, The Eternal is a remnant of the Worldwide Church of God still teaching the original doctrines first proclaimed by Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong.

We accept these doctrines as the divine revelation of Jesus Christ to His Church of the last days, given through the inspiration of a chosen servant; teachings that were blessed by God, producing an annual growth of 30% over four decades, with incredible blessings in the lives of those who practiced the same in faith.

What makes this remnant group truly different from the 300+ splinter groups of our parent organization? No one else believes what Mr. Armstrong originally taught about Truth—that it comes only by revelation to a chosen servant, and even that servant has no authority to change what Christ gave! Read it for yourself.

https://www.cogeternal.org/

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by aron

In the Potemkin Village LC, you can do what you want. (Maybe... electrified guitars! -'gasp') But in the real LC they'll start mentioning "restrictions". That's when you know you're in - the screws are starting to turn. To attract you in they'll "fake it"; then they'll want to know if you can "take it" - and into the Wedding Feast you'll "make it"... if you think I'm silly read the Open Letter by the Casteels. That's how they go after "typical Americans" now: create a fake LC.

I find it surprising that these types of things are able to gain traction in the LC. It’s basically an admission of sorts that the more extreme aspects of the LC as well as WL/LSM related things are highly suspect when it comes to public perception of the LC.

What makes it particularly ironic, however, is that people have already tried sounding the alarm before about the extremities of the LC. Everything from questioning the way WL is viewed to the exclusive use of LSM materials. And people who dared to do so have been kicked out because of doing that.

But in this case it seems that they are going to at least allow it for now. Maybe because they are becoming more and more okay with having some sort of facade. Probably as long as the ‘real’ form of the LC still exists in the background they will be okay with it.

I think if this becomes more widespread it’s going to severely backfire on them. In that excerpt from the letter, notice how all the “community saints” were being set aside, almost as if they were viewed as nothing more than a liability. How long before more people start saying enough is enough.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I find it surprising that these types of things are able to gain traction in the LC. It’s basically an admission of sorts that the more extreme aspects of the LC as well as WL/LSM related things are highly suspect when it comes to public perception of the LC.

What makes it particularly ironic, however, is that people have already tried sounding the alarm before about the extremities of the LC. Everything from questioning the way WL is viewed to the exclusive use of LSM materials. And people who dared to do so have been kicked out because of doing that.

But in this case it seems that they are going to at least allow it for now. Maybe because they are becoming more and more okay with having some sort of facade. Probably as long as the ‘real’ form of the LC still exists in the background they will be okay with it.

I think if this becomes more widespread it’s going to severely backfire on them. In that excerpt from the letter, notice how all the “community saints” were being set aside, almost as if they were viewed as nothing more than a liability. How long before more people start saying enough is enough.

There is some push-pull in this regard. Some leading ones are like "we shouldn't be ashamed of who we are", "just be what we are", "don't hide our rich heritage". Note that they don't say "this practice is deceptive", but more of a "wear it loud and proud, we are the best".

Others more in the field recognize "being what we are" is problematic because of Google. Any college student these days trying to choose what club to join on campus is going to go immediately to the internet to see what others have to say. And here is where the blame-shift comes in. In their minds, the problem with this isn't that people might find out about what the LC is. The problem is that people might find out about what people say about what the LC is. In other words, "because of the books and the libel and the cult accusations and the lawsuits" they need to hide who they are. They don't say "we need to hide who we are because we have these strange, unchristian, aberrant teachings and practices." The blame is on others who have called these things out in the past. Hence, no avenue for change.

As per usual, they won't even recognize it as a facade. They just come up with a divine and mystical term "the slow way" to legitimize the deceptive practice, and continue on in blindness. And it's shocking how quickly new students who are sophomores/junior/seniors come on board with joining in the deception. The "better than them" elitist attitude comes very quickly. They also quickly learn themselves to hide the name and emphasis of Witness Lee from new freshmen they are contacting. It's sobering to have seen it.

Community saints are definitely a means to an end. They are just used and discarded. Their function in the body is to focus on the students, who are the 'actually important' members. The sad thing is, the students they drool over will just become the disaffected members beginning about 8 years later. The students are brought in under such hyper-focus on them that there's a decent let down when they are then tossed aside after they graduate from their special status.

You can speak and speak and speak about the needs in the church and some very simple ways to help, but literally nothing will ever change.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Trapped

The sad thing is, the students they drool over will just become the disaffected members beginning about 8 years later.

I wish every HS and college student in the LC could read this sentence and stop for 40 seconds and consider its implications. But they're unfortunately under the thrall of hyper-spiritualised love-bombing and have no time for such sober reflections.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by aron

I wish every HS and college student in the LC could read this sentence and stop for 40 seconds and consider its implications. But they're unfortunately under the thrall of hyper-spiritualised love-bombing and have no time for such sober reflections.

Sadly, the ones who are most active in the LC are the ones who fall victim to this. As a church kid, some of my peers could care less about the LC (and left as soon as they could) but there were also some who actually took it seriously and were enthusiastic about it. Some of them were short-terming in the FTTA while on the breaks in college, made every conference and training, you name it.

Ten years later most of these same people were either out or just trying desperately to survive in the LC. With those who did manage to survive, I saw the types of problems they ran into. Some would move a locality, only to find out they weren't needed there, so then a year later they're moving somewhere else. Then the new locality has different issues, so it's on to the next locality.

I think a lot of us could probably point to some period of time in the LC where the environment just seemed intoxicating, there was a lot going on, we felt valued, wanted, etc. Then at some point that stopped. Maybe after moving somewhere else, graduating from college, or whatever else it was. Once all the 'fun' subsides, that's when people begin questioning their involvement. And it's not unreasonable either (I'm not saying the environment has to be fun or exciting). The point here is that if the LC is incapable of meeting someones needs at any given stage in their life, then it ceases to serve any purpose for that person.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Freedom

The point here is that if the LC is incapable of meeting someones needs at any given stage in their life, then it ceases to serve any purpose for that person.

And the LC response would be to shame you for thinking of your needs rather than God's needs. Except God didn't create us to starve us.

One issue is, I think, in the LC, "the church" is something different than the people. For all their years of looking down on Christianity for thinking the church is the building, and although the words are correct that "we [the people] are the church", somehow that truthful statement has deviated and "the church" seems to have become something separate from the people itself.

I know of cases where dear saints were gutted by the leadership "because it's the best thing for the church". How can lacerating a part of the church and losing that part of the church from the pain of the gutting be the best thing for the church? Because somehow, in the LC, "the church" is something different from the people. I don't know what it is in their mind, or even if THEY know what it is. But it ain't the people anymore.

It's like....."the church" has become "the protection of the ministry and the pretending that everything is fine and that we are not a controlling group".

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Trapped

There is some push-pull in this regard. Some leading ones are like "we shouldn't be ashamed of who we are", "just be what we are", "don't hide our rich heritage". Note that they don't say "this practice is deceptive", but more of a "wear it loud and proud, we are the best".

Others more in the field recognize "being what we are" is problematic because of Google. Any college student these days trying to choose what club to join on campus is going to go immediately to the internet to see what others have to say. And here is where the blame-shift comes in. In their minds, the problem with this isn't that people might find out about what the LC is. The problem is that people might find out about what people say about what the LC is. In other words, "because of the books and the libel and the cult accusations and the lawsuits" they need to hide who they are. They don't say "we need to hide who we are because we have these strange, unchristian, aberrant teachings and practices." The blame is on others who have called these things out in the past. Hence, no avenue for change.

This is a good point. People like Minoru haven’t been out on the front lines for years. They get to stand up at a podium and say whatever they want to say, and that all happens within a controlled environment.

When I was involved with some of the campus work, I never once saw anyone get scared away by anything that people say about the LC. I did, however, see multiple people disappear because something about their contact with us made them feel uneasy.

I remember one time we were having a welcome dinner at the beginning of the school year. There were quite a few newcomers and I heard a few of them whispering to one another asking why everyone kept saying ‘amen’ over and over. Not surprisingly, none of these newcomers ever came back again.

Another time at the start of a new school year, some of the church elders told us very strongly to not tell any of the newcomers where we “went to church” and so we made sure not to do that. The only problem was that question was just about the first thing some people wanted to ask (being that they were looking for a Christian community to be a part of), so our evasiveness in answering that type of question was an immediate red flag.

[Nell]

An inquiry into the lack of increase in ANY assembly of God's people should begin here:
Matt. 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

And there's this:
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

A lack of increase should cause those "in charge" to take a look at the fruit of their ways. A lack of increase should cause those who practice and preach authority, authority, authority to take a look at the fruit of their overbearing authority...the fruit of their brand of "authority".

Historically, those "in charge" have a proclivity to look at only what they believe to be their "good fruit" and deny or dismiss or blame the pain and suffering of their congregants on the congregants themselves. In other words, they have a "shoot the messenger" mentality---yet they can't figure out why there is a "lack of increase?"

If you really want to know why there is a "lack of increase", listen to your critics. They know. They've been telling you for years. If you had listened to those the Lord sent your way over the last 50 years, you might not be here today scratching your heads, wondering "what's going on?"

This brings us to a somber warning: Beware of false prophets.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

And again:
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

The lack of increase may be a form of cutting down and casting away of the tree.

28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

I love these 2 verses! The people recognized his authority, not because he incessantly hammered them with it, but because they were astonished at his teachings and they recognized the difference in what Jesus said and what the "blended scribes" said.

Read all of Matthew 7. It's amazing.

Nell.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Nell

If you really want to know why there is a "lack of increase", listen to your critics. They know. They've been telling you for years. If you had listened to those the Lord sent your way over the last 50 years, you might not be here today scratching your heads, wondering "what's going on?"

The LC really fails when it comes to listening to the various forms of feedback that they have available. Even in the video, Minoru admits the problem, but he wastes no time in misattributing it to things that just really don't have anything to do with the problem.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Nell

A lack of increase should cause those "in charge" to take a look at the fruit of their ways. A lack of increase should cause those who practice and preach authority, authority, authority to take a look at the fruit of their overbearing authority...the fruit of their brand of "authority".

Historically, those "in charge" have a proclivity to look at only what they believe to be their "good fruit" and deny or dismiss or blame the pain and suffering of their congregants on the congregants themselves. In other words, they have a "shoot the messenger" mentality---yet they can't figure out why there is a "lack of increase?"

If you really want to know why there is a "lack of increase", listen to your critics. They know. They've been telling you for years. If you had listened to those the Lord sent your way over the last 50 years, you might not be here today scratching your heads, wondering "what's going on?"

If it's asked inquisitively or rhetorically, do elders/co-workers really want to hear an answer?
Just as Nell said, "listen to your critics". I would say there is a "Drip! Drip! Drip!" effect causing attrition and lack of an increase.

• Daystar
• Max
• Philip Lee
• April 1986 ITERO - Elders Pledge of Allegiance
• Doorknocking Flow
• Rosemead
• Concerns of John So, Bill Mallon among others
• Full-TIme Trainings
• Quarantine of TItus Chu

It may not be a whole lot at a single given time, but add it up over the years of 1973-2006 and it's many who had left. Some will point out as Nell had, "look at their fruit". Some have have left for something simple as feeling overburdened and peer pressure to provide hospitality for bi-annual trainings.
Of course, should the elders/co-workers ask, they don't want to hear answers I've given.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Terry

It may not be a whole lot at a single given time, but add it up over the years of 1973-2006 and it's many who had left. Some will point out as Nell had, "look at their fruit". Some have have left for something simple as feeling overburdened and peer pressure to provide hospitality for bi-annual trainings.
Of course, should the elders/co-workers ask, they don't want to hear answers I've given.

So this forum has about 450 members (right UntoHim?). And the lion's share of members here are essentially against the practices of the LC. This is for a variety of individual reasons and most are not meeting with the LC. So let's say that brings it down to 400 (assuming about 50 members are still meeting with the LC). What would you say the portion these 400 members are of all disgruntled ones out there are? I'd say the largest percentage we might represent is just 10%. But I suspect that representative percentage to be much smaller, say 2-5% perhaps. Therefore that's as much as 20,000 people - or more - who have left that we on here represent!

The math may be fuzzy to be sure, but the point is we on this forum represent a much, much larger group of those that have some issue that caused us to leave the LC.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Terry

If it's asked inquisitively or rhetorically, do elders/co-workers really want to hear an answer?
Just as Nell said, "listen to your critics". I would say there is a "Drip! Drip! Drip!" effect causing attrition and lack of an increase.

• Daystar
• Max
• Philip Lee
• April 1986 ITERO - Elders Pledge of Allegiance
• Doorknocking Flow
• Rosemead
• Concerns of John So, Bill Mallon among others
• Full-TIme Trainings
• Quarantine of TItus Chu

It may not be a whole lot at a single given time, but add it up over the years of 1973-2006 and it's many who had left. Some will point out as Nell had, "look at their fruit". Some have have left for something simple as feeling overburdened and peer pressure to provide hospitality for bi-annual trainings.
Of course, should the elders/co-workers ask, they don't want to hear answers I've given.

I think there are two avenues of attrition in the LC, which you seem to have touched upon.

I would describe most of your bulleted list above as "severing an artery" (save the FTTA). That's one way members are lost en masse. Something significant happens, the ones who know the truth or see the reality leave in large numbers, and the LC faithful term it a "turmoil".

The other way I would best describe as hematidrosis, or bleeding through the skin (actually through sweat glands/pores). It's just the kind of constant loss that happens daily, weekly, monthly as row after row of saints across the churches reach the disillusioned point. It's not the "there was a turmoil" or "there was a coverup", but it's the "I'm just unhappy here and I can't handle it anymore".

There are pervasive issues in the LC that manifest in the spikes that get an official label. It's like being covered in boils or blisters, and the turmoils are just the ones that burst. Well, that's a gross analogy. Maybe a better one is a seismograph.....there are always rumblings in the earth, and it builds until you get the earthquakes.

Anyway, if the underlying issues were addressed, the turmoils wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) occur.

I think the historical stuff doesn't hold as much sway for the church kids who are now leaving as adults, or for the new ones who are caught and then the honeymoon period fades away. It may be that learning about the historical stuff is the final piece of the puzzle, or is the straw that breaks the camels back, but they would already been well into constructing the puzzle, or well into the camel being overloaded. They would already be suffering under the inauthentic relationships, the strange coded language, the same old dry cardboard being spoken at each meeting/conference/training, the lack of love, etc. Those are some of the things I can think of currently causing people to bleed out.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Trapped

I think the historical stuff doesn't hold as much sway for the church kids who are now leaving as adults, or for the new ones who are caught and then the honeymoon period fades away. It may be that learning about the historical stuff is the final piece of the puzzle, or is the straw that breaks the camels back, but they would already been well into constructing the puzzle, or well into the camel being overloaded. They would already be suffering under the inauthentic relationships, the strange coded language, the same old dry cardboard being spoken at each meeting/conference/training, the lack of love, etc. Those are some of the things I can think of currently causing people to bleed out.

In my own case, it was my experiences and frustration in the LC that led to me reading up on the history. The LC might say that people become 'poisoned' after they read what is out there, but it seems more often than not, that is just the final step on the path out of the LC.

When people get to that point where they are willing to read everything they've been told not to read, you know they must already be disillusioned enough to not really care anymore.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Freedom

In my own case, it was my experiences and frustration in the LC that led to me reading up on the history. The LC might say that people become 'poisoned' after they read what is out there, but it seems more often than not, that is just the final step on the path out of the LC.

When people get to that point where they are willing to read everything they've been told not to read, you know they must already be disillusioned enough to not really care anymore.

My experience is that the Lord just sort of dried things up regarding the LC. I think things were already just getting pretty dim in the locality we were in, and then I got a job which transferred us a couple thousand miles away to the middle of the Mojave Desert. There was a LC about a hundred miles away, but by that time I really wanted some space from them.

I still thought the LC was "it" however. It took a few years more of drying out before I contacted John Ingalls somewhere around 1991 or 92 (I don't remember how I knew to call him - perhaps it was someone in the Scottsdale group told me). By then I was ready to hear what John had to say, and he sent me a copy of his new book about what the Lord had showed him concerning WL/LSM. It distressed me as I knew I didn't want to go back to the LC, but I had also swallowed the idea that "there was nothing else out there of any value." So finally, in desperation, He was able to lead me to writings that clearly demonstrated the experience/enjoyment of Christ as their main focus (e.g., Piper), which were not part of the whole LC world. Praise God!!!

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Freedom

In my own case, it was my experiences and frustration in the LC that led to me reading up on the history. The LC might say that people become 'poisoned' after they read what is out there, but it seems more often than not, that is just the final step on the path out of the LC.

When people get to that point where they are willing to read everything they've been told not to read, you know they must already be disillusioned enough to not really care anymore.

Yeah. For me it was similar. I couldn't get help from anyone inside the LC about my experiences and frustrations so I went searching online, thinking to myself "SURELY there are other church kids or saints struggling with the same things and talking about them online".

This "poisonous" website I stumbled across could have been better described as "the first time in my life things make sense".

It just occurred to me how strange it is to have a group of people that apparently has all these "opposers". Does it not occur to anyone inside the group that the "opposers" words have merit? Do they literally just think that there are all these random people out there who make up things about the LC? It just makes no sense.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Trapped

It just occurred to me how strange it is to have a group of people that apparently has all these "opposers". Does it not occur to anyone inside the group that the "opposers" words have merit? Do they literally just think that there are all these random people out there who make up things about the LC? It just makes no sense.

The usage of terms like "opposers" or "negative ones" is very deliberate, and shifts the focus away from the actual concerns at hand.

When I think about all the times that I heard people in the LC talking about the so-called opposers, never once do really remember questioning why there would be so many people out there staying stuff about the LC. It was just more of fearing the unknown. Thinking that such people were out to get us and wreck havoc on the LC.

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Freedom

In my own case, it was my experiences and frustration in the LC that led to me reading up on the history. The LC might say that people become 'poisoned' after they read what is out there, but it seems more often than not, that is just the final step on the path out of the LC.

When people get to that point where they are willing to read everything they've been told not to read, you know they must already be disillusioned enough to not really care anymore.

This was true for me. I never once looked for information, nor saw the 'negativity online' for myself until I got shunned. At that point, I realized, what the heck is this? Weird unchristian behavior at best, something of Satans' strategy at worst. That is the point I started looking for answers, and discovered shunning is a tool they use....just like a cult does! Go figure.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

This was true for me. I never once looked for information, nor saw the 'negativity online' for myself until I got shunned. At that point, I realized, what the heck is this? Weird unchristian behavior at best, something of Satans' strategy at worst. That is the point I started looking for answers, and discovered shunning is a tool they use....just like a cult does! Go figure.

Hey, speaking of shunning, I wonder if those who've left the Amish thing have a web forum like us? (of course, because of their anti-technology practice, probably few Amish would know about it)

Jus' sayin'

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

This was true for me. I never once looked for information, nor saw the 'negativity online' for myself until I got shunned. At that point, I realized, what the heck is this? Weird unchristian behavior at best, something of Satans' strategy at worst. That is the point I started looking for answers, and discovered shunning is a tool they use....just like a cult does! Go figure.

While in the LC, it was never that clear why people left. People who were extra vocal about their concerns would be accused of being 'divisive'. Or sometimes the ones who voiced concerns were told that they should have addresses their concerns in a different way. People who left due to various abuses were accused of making things up. And it so many cases what it boiled down to was just blaming the victim.

The real 'poisoning' is related to the toxic environment that the LC allows to persist in spite of all the feedback they have. I wonder if they will ever be able to admit that.