The Speciality, Generality, and Practicality of the Church Life

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

I daresay these guys may have been considered cutting edge 150 years ago, or even in Nee's day. Readers in China in 1926 were surely impressed, as were a few naiive readers later in the USA, but their work is hardly pressing current discussions forward. Only the cloistered few in the "remnant" or "restored" or "recovered" churches would really focus on them, today.

My opinion, nothing more.

"My opinion, nothing more." -- Interesting comment. Perhaps auditioning for a new signature line?

How should we view your previous posts?

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

"My opinion, nothing more." -- Interesting comment. Perhaps auditioning for a new signature line?

How should we view your previous posts?

Jesus' opinions count. Yours and mine don't count very much. Witness Lee's even less, as he insisted on primacy.

[JJ]

Thanks for the feedback and helpful corrections.

We all tried to answer “what is the faith”. Then aron started to venture into matters that lie elsewhere (generality?) but came back to what is the faith.

I have two other questions:

What about this term “speciality”. Lee says by it he means “We all must know what it is in the church life that is special” and equates that to “the faith” we are charged by the apostles to contend for.

The second question I have is “what does contend for the faith mean?”

For reference the definition of the Greek word translated as “contend” is here https://biblehub.com/greek/4866.htm.

I’m surprised by the definition that it has more of an athletic team meaning than a warfare meaning.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by JJ

The second question I have is “what does contend for the faith mean?”

For reference the definition of the Greek word translated as “contend” is here https://biblehub.com/greek/4866.htm.

I’m surprised by the definition that it has more of an athletic team meaning than a warfare meaning.

I think your question here exposes errors in WL's ministry. He saw "contending" as a military battle, with himself as commander-in-chief fighting against all others. His way created loyal footsoldiers faithful to his program, us vs. them mentality. Thus WL regularly stated that our condition (in the faith) was far outweighed by our corporate standing (on the ground of oneness.)

Paul, however, saw this as a personal struggle, striving to remain in the faith, walking by faith, living by faith, striving for the reward. To Paul, personal faith was everything.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Paul, however, saw this as a personal struggle, striving to remain in the faith, walking by faith, living by faith, striving for the reward. To Paul, personal faith was everything.

I agree. Paul followed Jesus. We, like Paul, follow Jesus.

"There is one mediator between man and God, the man Christ Jesus"

Part of our faith is to receive one another, encourage one another, to comfort, and yes to teach. But never does that interaction transpose itself upon the other person's personal walk by faith with Jesus Christ.

In the LC the mediatory effect of the "ministry" rippled down through the "church life" distorted this walk. We got merchandised by a book publisher. See e.g., 2 Peter 2:3.

[JJ]

Great insights guys, and very liberating!

Contending for the faith together with faithful saints, like an athletic competition is much more enjoyable than stabbing, shooting, or hacking each other, and has no casualties... just some sore muscles, bumps, and bruises, and maybe a sprain or fracture And you want to come back and do it again, over, and over! Maybe that’s why we “hang out” here so much? It’s really fun?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by JJ

Great insights guys, and very liberating!

Contending for the faith together with faithful saints, like an athletic competition is much more enjoyable than stabbing, shooting, or hacking each other, and has no casualties... just some sore muscles, bumps, and bruises, and maybe a sprain or fracture And you want to come back and do it again, over, and over! Maybe that’s why we “hang out” here so much? It’s really fun?

So you liken it to a contact sport (like American football) rather than a non-contact sport (tennis, baseball, etc.)?

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I think your question here exposes errors in WL's ministry. He saw "contending" as a military battle, with himself as commander-in-chief fighting against all others. His way created loyal footsoldiers faithful to his program, us vs. them mentality. Thus WL regularly stated that our condition (in the faith) was far outweighed by our corporate standing (on the ground of oneness.)

Paul, however, saw this as a personal struggle, striving to remain in the faith, walking by faith, living by faith, striving for the reward. To Paul, personal faith was everything.

Very well said.

The biggest question — one that will never be answered in this age, if at all — is whether errors in direction, like the "contending" issue, were a matter of just not recognizing the clues to the base meaning, or were part of a scheme to look at things differently just to separate everyone's thinking from the way(s) they might have previously thought. And in doing that, to set himself (Lee or Nee) apart from other Christian teachers in the minds of his followers.

In hindsight, I am not entirely sure, but I lean toward believing it was some kind of intentional thing with less than charitable motives. Maybe not intending to become almost heretical on some things, but desiring to be a stumbling block. You either have to get in line or get out because uncertainty just didn't work.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

Very well said.

The biggest question — one that will never be answered in this age, if at all — is whether errors in direction, like the "contending" issue, were a matter of just not recognizing the clues to the base meaning, or were part of a scheme to look at things differently just to separate everyone's thinking from the way(s) they might have previously thought. And in doing that, to set himself (Lee or Nee) apart from other Christian teachers in the minds of his followers.

In hindsight, I am not entirely sure, but I lean toward believing it was some kind of intentional thing with less than charitable motives. Maybe not intending to become almost heretical on some things, but desiring to be a stumbling block. You either have to get in line or get out because uncertainty just didn't work.

I tend to believe that errors in one's youth are more accidental and forgivable, while errors when older in age, especially in the aftermath of serious times of testing, are more intentional.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by JJ

The second question I have is “what does contend for the faith mean?”
For reference the definition of the Greek word translated as “contend” is here https://biblehub.com/greek/4866.htm.
I’m surprised by the definition that it has more of an athletic team meaning than a warfare meaning.

As you point out, the meaning is more about an athletic competition rather than warfare. To contend is something you do in a game or a contest and is not to the point of lethal action, as warfare is.

We are to contend with those around us, being diligent that they may hear and see evidence of the faith in us, via our words and actions. We are not out to kill them, but rather to bring them to the knowledge of the Son of God, Who is life itself. So it is a friendly endeavor, as opposed to warfare - which goal is to destroy the other.