Christ Becoming The Live-Giving Spirit

[JJ]

Originally Posted by JJ

Right, there are many other verses to look at (I have links below to the Greek inter linear of them because it shows whether the article The or a are really there and whether spirit is capitalized or not). When I read them all together it seems that there is something mysterious about how Christ is in us and The Spirit is too.

Galatians 4:6

https://biblehub.com/blb/galatians/4.htm

2 Corinthians 3:17

https://biblehub.com/text/2_corinthians/3-17.htm

2 Corinthians 3:18

https://biblehub.com/text/2_corinthians/3-18.htm

Acts 16:7

https://biblehub.com/text/acts/16-7.htm

Philippians 1:19

https://biblehub.com/text/philippians/1-19.htm

Romans 8:9


https://biblehub.com/text/romans/8-9.htm


Romans 8:10

https://biblehub.com/text/romans/8-10.htm

Colossians 1:27


https://biblehub.com/text/colossians/1-27.htm

More verses I missed on this topic:

2 Corinthians 3:6

https://biblehub.com/text/2_corinthians/3-6.htm

John 6:63

https://biblehub.com/text/john/6-63.htm

John 20:22


https://biblehub.com/text/john/20-22.htm

Regarding that verse https://biblehub.com/greek/1720.htm

[Sons to Glory!]

Good citations! So was Lee trying to say that the HS wasn't present until after Christ's resurrection? The verses cited from the OT don't appear to have a definite article (the) in front of "Holy Spirit" as is present in the NT. Could these verses in the OT be more of a description rather than a specific name?

In looking at the nature of God, spirit is a key description (along with love & light). And we have spirit used for a number of divine "entities" (that is perhaps not the best word to use) including:

Spirit of God
Spirit of Christ
Spirit of Jesus Christ
Spirit of His Son
The Spirit
The Holy Spirit
A life-giving spirit
Seven spirits of God

Concerning Romans 8:9-11, to my knowledge no other passage portrays as wide array of references about who is in us, like it does. What are your thoughts on that passage?

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Good citations! So was Lee trying to say that the HS wasn't present until after Christ's resurrection? The verses cited from the OT don't appear to have a definite article (the) in front of "Holy Spirit" as is present in the NT. Could these verses in the OT be more of a description rather than a specific name?

In looking at the nature of God, spirit is a key description (along with love & light). And we have spirit used for a number of divine "entities" (that is perhaps not the best word to use) including:

Spirit of God
Spirit of Christ
Spirit of Jesus Christ
Spirit of His Son
The Spirit
The Holy Spirit
A life-giving spirit
Seven spirits of God

Concerning Romans 8:9-11, to my knowledge no other passage portrays as wide array of references about who is in us, like it does. What are your thoughts on that passage?

I'd really like to have input from some trained well in Koine Greek. I took one short course, and that certainly doesn't qualify me to draw a conclusion.

No recall Lee said the Holy Spirit wasn't around until Christ's incarnation. And, he said the Holy Spirit is what was typified by the olive oil in the annointing oil described in Exodus to which were added the other ingredients (one of the basis for his claim that God was processed and that Christ is now The Spirit). He claimed the incarnation of Jesus as the first step of God being processed. My point was he apparently didn't check a concordance to check if what he (admittedly) cribbed from Andrew Murray was right or not. The shame is I didn't check either but assumed he was right. You know the saying: to assume is to make a donkey out of me and you. What a bunch of donkeys we all were to listen to this guy for so long! No more! Especially with the power of tools like Bible Hub at my finger tips!

Here is another verse to add to the mix. John 4:24 https://biblehub.com/text/john/4-24.htm

And you brought up the seven Spirits who are before God's throne in Revelation https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/1-4.htm That has a capital in the Greek.

I said before something mysterious is going on, and my thoughts are still along those lines. Maybe the point is to know that both God's Spirit and our spirit are involved in spiritual matters (how profound ) The more one tries to explain things the more one digs a hole for oneself on this topic.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Actually the resurrection, and most specifically, our belief in it, are one of the keys to the Gospel, at least to the apostle Paul it was. Here's some verses from 1st Corinthians 15, a chapter we should all be very familiar with:
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, (vrs 3,4 -emphasis mine)

Unfortunately for the followers of Witness Lee, he pretty much ignored the beginning of this wonderful chapter (considering it "the low gospel") and instead chose to over-emphasis the latter part, and in the process completely misinterpreted what the apostle Paul was teaching. The entire chapter is speaking of resurrection, with the bodily resurrection of our Lord being the catalyst, the initiation, the inauguration of the resurrection of those who would believe in him. Paul couldn't have been any clearer - - it wasn't about what Jesus Christ became, but rather what became of his physical body. Through the resurrection - the raising, life-giving power of the Holy Spirit - Christ gained "a spiritual body". "It is raised a spiritual body" (vr 44) If Lee is right about verse 45 saying that Jesus Christ became the Holy Spirit, then it would follow that all the believers will become life-giving S(s)pirits at the resurrection. Thankfully, Lee's crazy teachings only have an influence on that tiny little sect down the street from Disneyland.
-

I copied this over from another thread as I think it fits in this conversation . . .

So WL taught that Christ became the HS after resurrection - and also that the HS didn't exist prior to that, right? I guess I didn't hear that from him, or realize I heard it. But that would make sense if he did indeed preach Modalism (or at least what I understad Modalism to be).

[UntoHim]

Thanks for bringing this post over StG! I thought about that as soon as I hit the "post" button!

Actually Lee did NOT teach that the HS did not exist before the resurrection (even Witness wouldn't go that far!) what he did teach is the the Spirit was "intensified" and that Jesus' humanity was "added" to the Holy Spirit. Lee's take was that the verse in John that says "the Spirit was not yet" meant that the Spirit was not yet existing with the humanity of Jesus added, and some how, some way, the power of the resurrection intensified him to become "the life-giving Spirit". This all fits in with his "processed triune God" teaching, where God literally went through a "process", and in this process the humanity of Jesus was "added" to the Holy Spirit. I'm kind of surprised you don't remember this teaching....it was a staple, bread and butter teaching of Witness Lee.
-

[Sons to Glory!]

Yes, I sure do remember that teaching! (no card-carrying ex-LCer could say otherwise!) What I was referring to was I thought I heard on this forum that Lee taught the HS didn't exist before Christ . . . maybe I was reading that wrong.

[UntoHim]

I don't recall anyone saying anything close to this. Maybe you were reading on some other website. Besides, most of Witness Lee's teachings are so off-the-wall there is really no need to make up something out of the blue.
-