Life Study of Revelation Misses Mark RE: "First Love"

[JJ]

Ohio,

Thanks for your thoughts on Nicolaitans. This term has been as source of much debate in Christendom and pressing a particular interpretation one way or the other isn’t worth arguing over for sure.

There does seem to be a kinship between Balaam’s error and Nicolaitanism in Revelation.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/comm...colaitans.html

[JJ]

And with Witness Lee’s fixation on the golden lampstands themselves “gold signifies the divine nature” for example, did he miss the obvious: the lampstand’s main job is to hold up the light of Christ and shine it to fill a room with light so the priest can see and use the other things in the room (show bread table, incense altar, viels) can be clearly seen and used?

[OBW]

That is what you get when you think the purpose of the Bible is to reveal hidden nuggets in every word without reference to any, or only a few, of the words around them.

I have come to call it the fortune cookie view of the Bible. All those pages and books are to bring us lots of little chopped-up fortune cookies to analyze one-by-one without reference to each other. It really started in earnest when they chopped it up into chapters and verses without any real reference to the sentences and paragraphs. Just roughly a similar number of syllables (or something like that).

[JJ]

Originally Posted by OBW

That is what you get when you think the purpose of the Bible is to reveal hidden nuggets in every word without reference to any, or only a few, of the words around them.

I have come to call it the fortune cookie view of the Bible. All those pages and books are to bring us lots of little chopped-up fortune cookies to analyze one-by-one without reference to each other. It really started in earnest when they chopped it up into chapters and verses without any real reference to the sentences and paragraphs. Just roughly a similar number of syllables (or something like that).

I love this term "fortune cookie view of the Bible", and certainly see Nee and Lee as having this view . I still tend to think of the Bible that way myself

Gene Edwards (seed sowers.com sells his books), a former local church brother, shares that view about the problem added chapters and verses presents to the reader. He freely admits that he has a reading disorder (Attention Deficit?) that makes it really hard for him to not be distracted by the chapters and verses. To make his point he published a Bible without added chapter and verses and suggests Christians read it to get a feel for what the original recipients of those writings would have been reading and how it makes truth hit home easier.

How about adding section headers, cross references, and footnotes to the equation.... quite an assault on the reader with attention deficit at a minimum!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by JJ

Ohio,

Thanks for your thoughts on Nicolaitans. This term has been as source of much debate in Christendom and pressing a particular interpretation one way or the other isn’t worth arguing over for sure.

There does seem to be a kinship between Balaam’s error and Nicolaitanism in Revelation.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/comm...colaitans.html

Does not LC history suggest that MOTA (minister of the age) teachings and practices are far closer to the admonitions of the Son of Man concerning the Nicolaitans, than the Recovery assertion that every Christian pastor (so-called clergy) is a Nicolaitan? You decide.

What's worse? Ministers speaking to their congregations 30 minutes a week following worship and communion, or these exalted book editors in Anaheim ruling over all the LC's? What could be more "Nicolaitan" than to blacklist cetain ministers, turn their saints one against the other, and then train dissidents in every church to file lawsuits to seize church property?

Can anything be more "Balaam-like" or "Nicolaitan" than that? By what authority did they ascribe? Scripture? Absolutely not! Their authority was the MOTA. WL, apparently from his grave, gave these Nicolaitan Blendeds the authority to rule over ministers, churches, and the saints.

Some here regularly assert that forced book sales, i.e. filthy lucre, drives these Blended Nicolaitans. I have always been convinced that the lust for power and vain-glory drives them. Of course money is needed to fuel them, and I remember a gathering in Taipei in May of 1987 where AY told LC leaders that, "all of the saints' offering is ours, not yours." That was not biblical stewardship. That was a money grab by the power hungry. Sounded awfully Nicolaitan.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Does not LC history suggest that MOTA (minister of the age) teachings and practices are far closer to the admonitions of the Son of Man concerning the Nicolaitans, than the Recovery assertion that every Christian pastor (so-called clergy) is a Nicolaitan? You decide.

What's worse? Ministers speaking to their congregations 30 minutes a week following worship and communion, or these exalted book editors in Anaheim ruling over all the LC's? What could be more "Nicolaitan" than to blacklist cetain ministers, turn their saints one against the other, and then train dissidents in every church to file lawsuits to seize church property?

Can anything be more "Balaam-like" or "Nicolaitan" than that? By what authority did they ascribe? Scripture? Absolutely not! Their authority was the MOTA. WL, apparently from his grave, gave these Nicolaitan Blendeds the authority to rule over ministers, churches, and the saints.

Some here regularly assert that forced book sales, i.e. filthy lucre, drives these Blended Nicolaitans. I have always been convinced that the lust for power and vain-glory drives them. Of course money is needed to fuel them, and I remember a gathering in Taipei in May of 1987 where AY told LC leaders that, "all of the saints' offering is ours, not yours." That was not biblical stewardship. That was a money grab by the power hungry. Sounded awfully Nicolaitan.

When I review all biblical references to Nicolaitans and Balaam (see links below) preaching and practicing idol worship and sexual sins are part of the equation too.

Revelation 2:6
https://biblehub.com/revelation/2-6.htm
The church in Ephesus hated and the Lord hates the evil deeds of the Nicolaitans

Revelation 2:15
https://biblehub.com/revelation/2-15.htm

The Lord rebuked the church in Pergamum:
“You have there some holding the teaching of Balaam, who would teach Balak to cast a snare before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. So likewise you also have some holding the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Therefore repent! But if not, I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth.

2 Peter 2 https://biblehub.com/blb/2_peter/2.htm
describes false prophets that preach and practice immortality for base gain and says “they have forsaken the straight way, they have gone astray, having followed in the way of Balaam son of Bosor, who loved the wage of unrighteousness. But he had reproof for his own transgression by a mute donkey; having spoken in a man’s voice, it restrained the madness of the prophet.” And it goes on to describe them and their fate.

Numbers 22-25 tells the story of Balaam
https://biblehub.com/bsb/numbers/22.htm

[JJ]

Back to our discussion of what "you have forsaken your first love" means:

I wanted to add that we have another clue in the apostle Paul's last address to the elders he called when he wrote to Ephesus (Acts 20:17-26)https://biblehub.com/blb/acts/20.htm

"Recall the words of our Lord Jesus when he said "It is more blessed to give than to receive". Paul also made the point that he coveted no ones money and had served them without receiving their support

When I visited the site of ancient Ephesus in 2014 it was stunning to see that no remnant of the Christian church remains in that area. The sea moved a few miles away from the former busy sea port and erosion buried a lot of the city essentially terminating its commerce. So, the city died altogether. Today you can go see ruins that Roman Catholics claim are remnants of the apostle John and Mary (Jesus' mother)'s house and a baptistry. I wasnt' convinced they were genuine.

JJ