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[awareness]

Originally Posted by Terry

One thing about the current state of American politics is it reminds me so much of the Local Churches I left behind.
Talk about rules and how the current House changed the rules back on August 12. Ironically the same day the whistleblower sent in her/his letter.
Much the same was the local churches in the mid to late 80's when LSM co-workers changed the rules by which many elders had operated by for years. They felt undermined and manipulated. I'm sure many of those GOP in the House ore Representatives are voicing much the same.
Just as the left is accusing Trump of what they're doing, the LSM co-workers accused Ingalls, So, Mallon, etc of doing what they the LSM co-workers were doing.
Whenever Speaker Pelosi is declaring Trump as being lawless, I say "mirror". She, Schiff, etc are projecting exactly what they are doing. When there was talk about investigating into Ukraine, why the backlash? What is there to hide? Crowdstrike? Nepotism? Just like the LSM, the liberals in power of US Government have something they are desperate to keep hidden.

If you don't want to impeach Trump, and toss him out of office, you aren't part of the 51% of the recent Fox poll.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

If you don't want to impeach Trump, and toss him out of office, you aren't part of the 51% of the recent Fox poll.

Never trust a Fox poll. But if right, so what? Do we allow the latest mood of the tyranny of the majority to guide us?

I live by convictions, not what everybody in the majority happens to think. Or not.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Never trust a Fox poll. But if right, so what? Do we allow the latest mood of the tyranny of the majority to guide us?

I live by convictions, not what everybody in the majority happens to think. Or not.

So again, impeachment is not a bad thing and doesn't mean removal, which the Senate will likely never do. But the whole thing will bring many things into the light of day - shenanigans done by those on both sides.

[OBW]

I live by convictions, not what everybody in the majority happens to think. Or not.

I can agree. But I also recognize that a government of the people will necessarily respond to the majority. It is through reliance on the decency of people that the majority doesn't just jail everyone else (at a hyperbolic extreme). But it requires a majority to do anything. And sometimes it takes compromise between two or more minorities to achieve a majority.

If there is no majority — by a single group or a collection of groups — then nothing happens. But with a majority, things can, and often do, happen.

And when we are in the majority, we like what happens. But when we are in the minority, we don't like what happens.

But either way, we are not the only ones who comprise the right (correct) or only reasonable course of action. And we are not the only reasonable people on the continent. And all of the reasonable persons do not agree on everything. And, unfortunately, the unreasonable (and ignorant) are part of what helps make almost any group into the majority on any particular issue at any particular moment.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

I can agree. But I also recognize that a government of the people will necessarily respond to the majority. It is through reliance on the decency of people that the majority doesn't just jail everyone else (at a hyperbolic extreme). But it requires a majority to do anything. And sometimes it takes compromise between two or more minorities to achieve a majority.

If there is no majority — by a single group or a collection of groups — then nothing happens. But with a majority, things can, and often do, happen.

And when we are in the majority, we like what happens. But when we are in the minority, we don't like what happens.

But either way, we are not the only ones who comprise the right (correct) or only reasonable course of action. And we are not the only reasonable people on the continent. And all of the reasonable persons do not agree on everything. And, unfortunately, the unreasonable (and ignorant) are part of what helps make almost any group into the majority on any particular issue at any particular moment.

But what all sides require, regardless of party or policy, is a "somewhat" fair, honest, and unbiased Press. Unfortunately this has slowly deteriorated over the years. Without an honest Press, all we have is unprincipled propaganda. Forget about the two sides working together. We have one side who refuses to admit that the President was democratically elected. Without this, there is no democracy. The people have no ability to peacefully express their will.

Now we have one side, using the power of the Press, and the power of our intelligence community, continually demagoguing every news event. We are constantly subjected to one outrageous accusation after another. Like a revolving door, every day brings fresh charges, and forgotten defenses of old charges. Except for some Trump-polemic websites, there is no way to even know that these endless accusations have been constantly debunked.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

But what all sides require, regardless of party or policy, is a "somewhat" fair, honest, and unbiased Press. Unfortunately this has slowly deteriorated over the years.

What we like to think about the near past ignores the more distant history. At the time of the founding of our nation, most newspapers were owned by the wealthy. Generally one wealthy person per paper. His thoughts drove how that paper wrote and reported. There was no such thing as an unbiased press.

To get the news, you had to understand the bias of the owner of each newspaper. Of course, there were many newspapers in those days. It has only been in the past 100 or s years that it began to consolidate into 1 or 2 broadly-published local papers. And even there it was often that one was more to one side of things than the other. That is the way it was in Dallas until the Times Herald folded into the Morning News (in the 90s?). Neither was strongly to either side, but now there is only one. (And depending on the side you are on, you swear it leans to the other.)

So what it really requires is an educated population that is not easily swayed by fake news. And despite my leaning to the right on things, I find much more truly fake news to come from the right (especailly FOX News) than from the others. I may not always like where the editorial content of the others goes, but I trust their basic reporting far above that of FOX. FOXy gets a failing grade from me.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by OBW

What we like to think about the near past ignores the more distant history. At the time of the founding of our nation, most newspapers were owned by the wealthy. Generally one wealthy person per paper. His thoughts drove how that paper wrote and reported. There was no such thing as an unbiased press.

To get the news, you had to understand the bias of the owner of each newspaper. Of course, there were many newspapers in those days. It has only been in the past 100 or s years that it began to consolidate into 1 or 2 broadly-published local papers. And even there it was often that one was more to one side of things than the other. That is the way it was in Dallas until the Times Herald folded into the Morning News (in the 90s?). Neither was strongly to either side, but now there is only one. (And depending on the side you are on, you swear it leans to the other.)

So what it really requires is an educated population that is not easily swayed by fake news. And despite my leaning to the right on things, I find much more truly fake news to come from the right (especailly FOX News) than from the others. I may not always like where the editorial content of the others goes, but I trust their basic reporting far above that of FOX. FOXy gets a failing grade from me.

We don't have cable, so I usually only see the cable news channels when I go to the gym. And like you, I lean right (somewhat libertarian), but I get tired of Fox News. They usually have Fox, CNN and MSNBC all playing side by side on screens at the gym, and it is amusing to see how biased they all are! It makes me wish for an outlet that you didn't have to filter constantly, but that's Adam for you - always expressing bias in some way . . .

And to your point about just taking the bias into consideration. I've subscribed to The Week magazine for years, because it gives both sides, quoting sources from left and right news outlets. I've turned various conservative people on to it, but they won't read it any more because it leans too far left. In actuality, though The Week does give both sides, it still skews to the left on many things. One way they do this is in an article, the last word quoted is almost always from a left-leaning source. But I'm aware of this and can filter accordingly.

[TLFisher]

All this talk about Eric Ciaramella being whistleblower. Consider this if he wasn't don't you think he would have filed a defamation lawsuit by now?

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

. . . it is amusing to see how biased they all are! . . . .

I can agree with the bias. They like their positions. But I do not see in some of the CNN reports/commentators the same kind of attitude that turns a blind eye to everything that contradicts their position. I can't just listen to them all . . . or even the better ones for too long. But I can't stomach the Hannity/Beck/etc view that has any kind of disagreement with them as a mental disorder. I can't find a "quality" "right" commentator that speaks with any serious integrity like I find at CNN.

I had the opportunity to watch some of the hearings a week ago. When the sound bites started up at the lunch break and at the end of each day, I could not figure out if the guys at Fox were actually talking about the same hearing I had watched. Of course, that was probably because the Republican committee members did not actually ask any questions that were relevant to the topic or those providing testimony. Mostly just trying to discover the name of a protected person or rehash tired, old, and disproven conspiracy theories.

I will leave it at that.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Never trust a Fox poll. But if right, so what? Do we allow the latest mood of the tyranny of the majority to guide us?

I live by convictions, not what everybody in the majority happens to think. Or not.

Must still be LC slooshing around in there somewhere. In that case, there's a new wave in the Trump cult. Now it's :

Lock Him up! Lock Him up! Lock Him up! Lock Him up! Lock Him up! Lock Him up! Lock Him up!

Oddly, the left agrees.

[Ohio]

Just amazing how the Left elects idiots . . .

[Ohio]

And they want to see Trump's taxes . . .