Curious!

Curious · 10-06-2019, 11:35 PM

Hello again. In response to aron’s response to my post, I want to add some more.

First, to emphasise the issue of repentance and forgiveness, 1 John 1:9 says: “If we confess our sins, He (God) is faithful and just to forgive our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” It’s a done deal, and if God forgives, who are we to withhold, us mere mortals? We have an obligation to God to forgive. If any LSM leader repents, forgiveness is assured.

Germany repented to the world and to the Jewish race after WWII. They received reconciliation, restitution of friendly relations with the rest of the world, including the nation of Israel. If a nation can do it, so can a Christian ministry. Aron, your willingness to be transparent and vulnerable in sharing your own story to illustrate my points was more than I was expecting. Thank you.

I’m going to pick up on your mention of ‘shame’ in the package of things you felt as a young adult. Shame and rejection are major tools of destruction to the human heart. In quarantining and shunning, as well as other disciplines, shame and rejection has been used to control people, in the LC. This is very effective, given our vulnerability, and very evil, in my opinion. A great fear of shame and humiliation will terrify a person from opening their heart in the way aron has done, but easy when repentance is a way of life. The terror of being vulnerable in a critical and harsh environment can feel very real, and create a huge barrier for a person to navigate. Yet peace and a huge deep release await on the other side of that barrier. Being cleansed from all unrighteousness is a wonderful and empowering experience, actually.

Isn’t it interesting that the word ‘humility’ and the word ‘humiliation’ are so similar yet have very different meanings? (It’s one of the God-incidences in our language, like the word ‘sun’, gives light to the physical world, and ‘the son’ is the only source of light in the world of the heart). Humility towards God, and the fear of the Lord are the antidote to fear of humiliation. It brings with it the peace of knowing that all us human beings are fallen, and nothing we can be ashamed of or attacked about is more than what is common to man. Which releases us from shame. Humility is, in short, the antidote to humiliation. There is no hook to punish us by humiliation when we are detached from human approval and attached to Gods love and acceptance of us. To realise how core this is, demons often use mockery, its very common in deliverance ministry situations. Demons are evil. Mockery provokes shame and humiliation and demons know it is a powerful weapon against the human soul. Any using of it as a tool is evil as I said above, and Jesus never disrespected people in this way, never ever EVER.

Also, the fear of the Lord. If nothing else, face the temporary humiliation to spare yourself eternal punishment, that's still a good deal. After all, salvation depends on repentance. Genuine repentance is caring more about how you've hurt others than it is about preserving self. Which matters more? Next time I’m going to talk about the bubonic plague and its relevance to this discussion. That sounds well off the wall, don’t mind me, I am a bit wacky…. it will make sense when I explain it!

UntoHim · 10-07-2019, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curious

It is impossible to reach maturity without vulnerability. Admitting a mistake or a deliberate wrong is the only way forward for any human, to repent of it and be sorry. This makes us vulnerable and requires humility. Witness Lee did not demonstrate this nor do those who have continued after him, as well documented on this forum and elsewhere. He remained immature as do the blendeds following after him. We would all have respect for them if they admitted to mistakes and wrongdoing. That’s the crazy thing, they would find safety and grace if they turned and changed their ways.

I couldn't possibly give a big enough "Amen!" to this! Out of the 2,700+ posts that I have made over the last decade+, you can throw out 2,695 of them and just pay attention to this one. Why? Because it hits upon the heart of the Gospel, and it hits upon the real heart of the divine revelation. Witness Lee and his followers have always prided themselves on having cornered the market on knowing and apprehending what is the "higher Gospel", and what is "the heart of the divine revelation". But they (also we..maybe especially me) have missed it big time. And I only have to point us to two passages - one in the Old Testament, and one in the New Testament:
He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God? (Micah 6:8)
"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 22:36-40)
Actually as I was reciting these verses another one came to mind and I'll ad it here as an addendum:
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. (John 13:34,35)

Yes, these are simple, basic commandments, yet from these spring the way, the truth and life for us to accomplish and fulfill the desire and heart of God to see his will "done on earth as it is in heaven". Mere determination of the human will cannot accomplish this. The intellect of the most genius of men cannot accomplish this. The best intentions of the purest of hearts cannot accomplish this. Even the Lord Jesus was not able to completely accomplish this during his earthly ministry - He told his disciples that they "will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do" (John 14:12) Notice that our Lord did not proclaim to them "the vision of the age", or "become God in life and nature by eating and drinking", or any other such spiritually sounding gobbledygook. No. He spoke of "greater works than these". What is needed in this present evil age, and among this crooked and perverse generation is not any more vision(s) (of the age or otherwise), not any more high peak, recovered truths, and not eating, drinking and enjoying the Lord. Has not our experience in the Local Church of Witness Lee shown us that concentrating on these things will only allow us to be puffed up and consider ourselves as better than others, and assuage our consciences as we ignore the poor and vulnerable, and the outcasts of society, and even to coldly "beat our fellow servants" (our brothers and sisters in Christ). May God have mercy.
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10-06-2019, 11:35 PM	#1
Curious Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 186	Re: Curious! Hello again. In response to aron’s response to my post, I want to add some more. First, to emphasise the issue of repentance and forgiveness, 1 John 1:9 says: “If we confess our sins, He (God) is faithful and just to forgive our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” It’s a done deal, and if God forgives, who are we to withhold, us mere mortals? We have an obligation to God to forgive. If any LSM leader repents, forgiveness is assured. Germany repented to the world and to the Jewish race after WWII. They received reconciliation, restitution of friendly relations with the rest of the world, including the nation of Israel. If a nation can do it, so can a Christian ministry. Aron, your willingness to be transparent and vulnerable in sharing your own story to illustrate my points was more than I was expecting. Thank you. I’m going to pick up on your mention of ‘shame’ in the package of things you felt as a young adult. Shame and rejection are major tools of destruction to the human heart. In quarantining and shunning, as well as other disciplines, shame and rejection has been used to control people, in the LC. This is very effective, given our vulnerability, and very evil, in my opinion. A great fear of shame and humiliation will terrify a person from opening their heart in the way aron has done, but easy when repentance is a way of life. The terror of being vulnerable in a critical and harsh environment can feel very real, and create a huge barrier for a person to navigate. Yet peace and a huge deep release await on the other side of that barrier. Being cleansed from all unrighteousness is a wonderful and empowering experience, actually. Isn’t it interesting that the word ‘humility’ and the word ‘humiliation’ are so similar yet have very different meanings? (It’s one of the God-incidences in our language, like the word ‘sun’, gives light to the physical world, and ‘the son’ is the only source of light in the world of the heart). Humility towards God, and the fear of the Lord are the antidote to fear of humiliation. It brings with it the peace of knowing that all us human beings are fallen, and nothing we can be ashamed of or attacked about is more than what is common to man. Which releases us from shame. Humility is, in short, the antidote to humiliation. There is no hook to punish us by humiliation when we are detached from human approval and attached to Gods love and acceptance of us. To realise how core this is, demons often use mockery, its very common in deliverance ministry situations. Demons are evil. Mockery provokes shame and humiliation and demons know it is a powerful weapon against the human soul. Any using of it as a tool is evil as I said above, and Jesus never disrespected people in this way, never ever EVER. Also, the fear of the Lord. If nothing else, face the temporary humiliation to spare yourself eternal punishment, that's still a good deal. After all, salvation depends on repentance. Genuine repentance is caring more about how you've hurt others than it is about preserving self. Which matters more? Next time I’m going to talk about the bubonic plague and its relevance to this discussion. That sounds well off the wall, don’t mind me, I am a bit wacky…. it will make sense when I explain it!