1,000 Years of Outer Darkness

OBW · 10-01-2019, 05:17 AM

CMW,

I would be a little careful with seeing Jews v Gentiles in the NT writings from the standpoint of "not written to me." I realize that Paul was heavily providing an underpinning to people who did not already have the background a Jew would have. But that does not make anything written to the Jew, like Hebrews, not for the Gentiles. Especially now. In this day, while we do not start with the learning and practice of the Jews, we do know a lot about it. There is no better evidence of this than our propensity to try to claim every OT promise to Israel to us today.

I realize that Hebrews (maybe James too?) does not seem to fit with so much of the rest of the NT. But that does not make it less meaningful to us. We may have never had a system of animal sacrifices (in this era) but we still try to appease God through otherwise irrelevant activities. I may have never really got the "order of Melchesidek" thing, but Hebrews is still important. Same for James.

But, for example, while we all have a part in evangelism, Jesus did not tell everyone who he appeared to to go into all the world preaching. Nor even the 120. He took the 11 aside and told them. That does not define a hierarchy. But it does follow the notion that they had been trained for 3+ years for a purpose that was not given to every believer.

As for outer darkness, while reading it too literally might be problematic, I would not toss it aside as somehow written to only Jews. Seems that without clearer intent, it would be dangerous to ignore the warnings, even if without understanding the actual impact of what outer darkness represents. And it would be easy to presume from a Calvinist view that it couldn't be a permanent thing. But even that might be better to not presume.

countmeworthy · 10-01-2019, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OBW

CMW,

I would be a little careful with seeing Jews v Gentiles in the NT writings from the standpoint of "not written to me."

I totally agree and understand what you are saying.

Both James and Hebrews speak to me, a 'gentile' and many passages in the OT especially Psalms speak to me. The gospels speak to me. But I am learning through the Spirit how to discern what pertains to the Jews and what pertains to the gentiles and what pertains to both the Jews and Gentiles.

I really appreciate the Holy Spirit revealing God's Word to me/ to us. God raises teachers/pastors as mentioned in Ephesians 4:11 to explain the scriptures to us, but it is the Holy Spirit in us who cautions us not to be tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine that is out there. And just so you know, I am still learning..I don't have everything 'right'.

Thanks again for your input OBW.

Sons to Glory! · 10-01-2019, 10:32 AM

Getting the big overview of a book in the Bible has been very helpful to me. What you mentioned, Carol, regarding who James was writing to, and knowing the background was immensely helpful to many of us when we went through his epistle last year! Many, who had somewhat written James off as being all Old Covenant, testified the same thing and got fresh light from James!

The same was true when we went through the book of Revelation. Previously it had been a very mysterious and frightening book to many of us. But after learning a few overview basics, it became the most wonderful book of God's love!

And I can say similar things about Hebrews, which we are just finishing up now. Before, many of us thought of it mainly as a book of warnings, with a few encouraging verses sprinkled here and there. But now, it too has taken on a whole new light - the entire book is a HUGE encouragement!!!

Someone a couple years ago said that anything discouraging is not of the Lord - He is the God of ALL encouragement! I now see that as we receive His light - like in the three books mentioned above - we come to see it is really the most encouraging! PRAISE HIM!!

However, that doesn't mean there is a not a downside for not running the race. As with any goal, there is the potential gain or potential loss.

Therefore, even if the 10 virgins or faithful/unfaithful servants parables in Matthew were not specifically written for gentile believers, there still is certainly some application - which I think is what we (Carol, OBW, me) are saying, right?

10-01-2019, 05:17 AM	#1
OBW Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: DFW area Posts: 4,384	Re: 1,000 Years of Outer Darkness CMW, I would be a little careful with seeing Jews v Gentiles in the NT writings from the standpoint of "not written to me." I realize that Paul was heavily providing an underpinning to people who did not already have the background a Jew would have. But that does not make anything written to the Jew, like Hebrews, not for the Gentiles. Especially now. In this day, while we do not start with the learning and practice of the Jews, we do know a lot about it. There is no better evidence of this than our propensity to try to claim every OT promise to Israel to us today. I realize that Hebrews (maybe James too?) does not seem to fit with so much of the rest of the NT. But that does not make it less meaningful to us. We may have never had a system of animal sacrifices (in this era) but we still try to appease God through otherwise irrelevant activities. I may have never really got the "order of Melchesidek" thing, but Hebrews is still important. Same for James. But, for example, while we all have a part in evangelism, Jesus did not tell everyone who he appeared to to go into all the world preaching. Nor even the 120. He took the 11 aside and told them. That does not define a hierarchy. But it does follow the notion that they had been trained for 3+ years for a purpose that was not given to every believer. As for outer darkness, while reading it too literally might be problematic, I would not toss it aside as somehow written to only Jews. Seems that without clearer intent, it would be dangerous to ignore the warnings, even if without understanding the actual impact of what outer darkness represents. And it would be easy to presume from a Calvinist view that it couldn't be a permanent thing. But even that might be better to not presume. __________________ Mike I think . . . . I think I am . . . . therefore I am, I think — Edge OR . . . . You may be right, I may be crazy — Joel

10-01-2019, 10:32 AM	#3
Sons to Glory! Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 2,622	Re: 1,000 Years of Outer Darkness Getting the big overview of a book in the Bible has been very helpful to me. What you mentioned, Carol, regarding who James was writing to, and knowing the background was immensely helpful to many of us when we went through his epistle last year! Many, who had somewhat written James off as being all Old Covenant, testified the same thing and got fresh light from James! The same was true when we went through the book of Revelation. Previously it had been a very mysterious and frightening book to many of us. But after learning a few overview basics, it became the most wonderful book of God's love! And I can say similar things about Hebrews, which we are just finishing up now. Before, many of us thought of it mainly as a book of warnings, with a few encouraging verses sprinkled here and there. But now, it too has taken on a whole new light - the entire book is a HUGE encouragement!!! Someone a couple years ago said that anything discouraging is not of the Lord - He is the God of ALL encouragement! I now see that as we receive His light - like in the three books mentioned above - we come to see it is really the most encouraging! PRAISE HIM!! However, that doesn't mean there is a not a downside for not running the race. As with any goal, there is the potential gain or potential loss. Therefore, even if the 10 virgins or faithful/unfaithful servants parables in Matthew were not specifically written for gentile believers, there still is certainly some application - which I think is what we (Carol, OBW, me) are saying, right? __________________ *LC Berkeley 70s; LC Columbus OH 80s; An Ekklesia in Scottsdale 98-now*