Science scratches its' head

[Nuclear]

Originally Posted by Trapped

It still seems to me though, that if we are God "outside" of time and space watching the formation of the universe, then at the point in time that the universe was, say, 1,000,000 miles wide in its expansion, there would be a measurable center 500,000 miles from all edges, which would remain the center even as it all expands to where we are today.

Some say in the comments that the universe has always been infinite, even in the context of the big bang. If that's true, I can't wrap my head around it.

I agree the concept is really hard to comprehend and understand, and the idea of infinity in both math and science is probably one of the most fascinating.

There is an analogy though that helped me understand it quite a bit better though. The comments are correct, in the context of the big bang the universe is invite, always and forever, its the nature of this infinity that changes.

Essentially prior to the big bang, what you have is a singularity of infinite density and infinite mass, but zero (and I mean absolute zero space). When this singularity "opens" for lack of better terminology, it shifts to infinite space of infinite mass but a finite density. The only thing that changes after this point in time is the density.

Essentially, imagine a theoretical ruler, one that is infinite in length. Then imagine a standard inch on it. Each inch is subdivided into 1/12", 2/12", 3/12" and so on. Now, imagine a force stretching this inch to double its original length, doing it to every inch along the ruler simultaneously. Each subdivision is twice as far apart as it was before, but has the length of the ruler itself changed?

No, it was infinite in length before, and it is still infinite now despite each part that makes it up being twice as long. Now just imagine each subdivision being a particle or piece of mass, and you essentially have a picture of universal expansion without an edge.

The cone analogy that you often see doesn't describe the edge of the universe in that sort of sense, think of it more like a description of density change.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Nuclear

I agree the concept is really hard to comprehend and understand, and the idea of infinity in both math and science is probably one of the most fascinating.

There is an analogy though that helped me understand it quite a bit better though. The comments are correct, in the context of the big bang the universe is invite, always and forever, its the nature of this infinity that changes.

Essentially prior to the big bang, what you have is a singularity of infinite density and infinite mass, but zero (and I mean absolute zero space). When this singularity "opens" for lack of better terminology, it shifts to infinite space of infinite mass but a finite density. The only thing that changes after this point in time is the density.

Essentially, imagine a theoretical ruler, one that is infinite in length. Then imagine a standard inch on it. Each inch is subdivided into 1/12", 2/12", 3/12" and so on. Now, imagine a force stretching this inch to double its original length, doing it to every inch along the ruler simultaneously. Each subdivision is twice as far apart as it was before, but has the length of the ruler itself changed?

No, it was infinite in length before, and it is still infinite now despite each part that makes it up being twice as long. Now just imagine each subdivision being a particle or piece of mass, and you essentially have a picture of universal expansion without an edge.

The cone analogy that you often see doesn't describe the edge of the universe in that sort of sense, think of it more like a description of density change.

Okay, I understand the ruler analogy. Thanks. But this would mean the universe went from absolute zero space to infinite space in a nanonanonanonanonanosecond? It seems strange there is no interim where the universe is 1 foot across, then 10 miles across, then 1,000, then 1,000,000, etc.

Can you have infinite space and infinite mass? It seems if this was the case then density would always be 1, or at least unchanging. If the universe is expanding wouldn't it by definition be getting less dense? Or does its infinite nature undo that?

(Infinity in math is a mind-blower......like all the even and odd numbers to infinity is the same as just all the odd numbers to infinity. One is a subset of the other, but they are still the same in "quantity").

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Okay, I understand the ruler analogy. Thanks. But this would mean the universe went from absolute zero space to infinite space in a nanonanonanonanonanosecond? It seems strange there is no interim where the universe is 1 foot across, then 10 miles across, then 1,000, then 1,000,000, etc.

Can you have infinite space and infinite mass? It seems if this was the case then density would always be 1, or at least unchanging. If the universe is expanding wouldn't it by definition be getting less dense? Or does its infinite nature undo that?

(Infinity in math is a mind-blower......like all the even and odd numbers to infinity is the same as just all the odd numbers to infinity. One is a subset of the other, but they are still the same in "quantity").

As a young Catholic kid I struggled with infinity. Like how old is God, and what was God doing all that time before creation? My young brain would finally explode, and I would give up. Now I distinguish between eternal life and everlasting life. Eternal life is timeless, and everlasting life is time without ending. I don't know if it's true, but at least my brain stopped exploding.

[awareness]

Talk about science scratching their heads, they don't even know what they are scratching :

"You could call together all the brainiest people who are alive now or have ever lived and endow them with the complete sum of human knowledge and they could not between them make a single living cell,

"The most extraordinary thing in the universe is inside your head. You could travel through every inch of outer space and very possibly nowhere find anything as marvellous and complex and high-functioning as the three pounds of spongy mass between your ears.

The great paradox of the brain is that everything you know about the world is provided to you by an organ that has itself never seen that world.

The brain exists in silence and darkness, like a dungeoned prisoner. It has no pain receptors – literally no feelings. It has never felt warm sunshine or a soft breeze.

To your brain, the world is just a stream of electrical pulses, like taps of Morse code. And out of this bare and neutral information it creates for you – quite literally creates – a vibrant, three-dimensional, sensually engaging universe.

Your brain is you. Everything else is just plumbing and scaffolding.

Just sitting quietly, doing nothing at all, your brain churns through more information in 30 seconds than the Hubble Space Telescope has processed in 30 years."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...uman-body.html