How do you leave without making a scene?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

After reading Jo Casteel's open letter and going down the rabbit hole of research into the LC, my husband and I have decided that we would like to leave the LC. We want to do this as quietly as possible, but need advice on how to go about it from those who have done this before.

Would love to hear some advice from you all. Thank you.

We called it quits during all the chaos prior to the Midwest Quarantines. Personally I voiced some serious concerns I had in the elders/deacons meeting, and the elders later told me to apologize to the other deacons, which I did, and then stopped all my serving at that point. Actually the other deacons all agreed with me, understood my concerns, and told me I didn't need to apologize. I did as I was told before leaving.

I was honest with some of my issues, and the elders/workers rejected them. I was honest with them, honest with myself, and honest to the Lord. When asked "where we've been," we told the saints that we are struggling to follow the Lord. I never voiced my concerns to the saints in general. For a few years afterwards, I would visit once a month to break bread and see the saints. I still see some of the saints. I found that leaving was easier than sticking around. Workers under TC could become quite abusive at times, just to maintain their power, having learned bad habits from TC.

If you want to leave, just leave. Just tell them you are trying to follow the Lord. Don't argue with them. Don't reason with them. Don't try to persuade them. Don't even try to answer why. Just thank them, and tell them you will pray about it. Let them have the last word as you say thanks and good bye.

[Hannah]

I don't think you owe an explanation to anyone but I completely understand feeling like one is necessary.

I think the easiest is to say you and your wife are following the Lord's leading.

If you give any other reasons there will be an argument, things will likely be said. If someone criticizes or questions you when your reason is "obeying the Lord" they look like the idiot, narrow and everything else.

It might be easier not to leave gradually, it leaves too much opportunity for them to challenge or question. If there are those you have a good relationship and you want to maintain a relationship then tell them specifically "we are leaving because the Lord has led us elsewhere." And let them know you still want to gather for meals, movies, etc.

Some might care that you leave but unfortunately a lot womt say or do much and that's really unfortunate.

[HERn]

Well, my wife and I hosted a home group every week and cooked a meal. When we saw the nakedness of The Lords Recovery we pulled back and asked others to host the home meetings. We pulled away and got free. I know some other couples did not understand, we shared nothing and gave no reason for pulling away. We were gentlemen and did not say anything negative, we just cut them off. We are now in a healthy church group and will never go back to the false teaching of the Lords Recovery. You may need to slip away quietly and find a healthy group to meet with.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Hannah

I don't think you owe an explanation to anyone but I completely understand feeling like one is necessary.

I think the easiest is to say you and your wife are following the Lord's leading.

If you give any other reasons there will be an argument, things will likely be said. If someone criticizes or questions you when your reason is "obeying the Lord" they look like the idiot, narrow and everything else.

It might be easier not to leave gradually, it leaves too much opportunity for them to challenge or question. If there are those you have a good relationship and you want to maintain a relationship then tell them specifically "we are leaving because the Lord has led us elsewhere." And let them know you still want to gather for meals, movies, etc.

Some might care that you leave but unfortunately a lot womt say or do much and that's really unfortunate.

I just stopped coming to meetings with a simple explanation that the ministry had replaced the Bible, and I thought that was dangerous. No need to convince anyone else. Just leave for your sake.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by JJ

I just stopped coming to meetings with a simple explanation that the ministry had replaced the Bible, and I thought that was dangerous. No need to convince anyone else. Just leave for your sake.

Originally Posted by aron

The LC surgically removes one's backbone. One becomes a sort of amorphous jellyfish. So it may take time to grow a new one. But in Christ all things are possible.

Great comments! It is amazing the peer pressure we allow ourselves to fall under. But more than that, it becomes a whole culture that we think is true. As Paul says of the old man, we can just "put it off" in Christ!

[Jay]

Originally Posted by Ohio

We called it quits during all the chaos prior to the Midwest Quarantines. Personally I voiced some serious concerns I had in the elders/deacons meeting, and the elders later told me to apologize to the other deacons, which I did, and then stopped all my serving at that point. Actually the other deacons all agreed with me, understood my concerns, and told me I didn't need to apologize. I did as I was told before leaving.

I was honest with some of my issues, and the elders/workers rejected them. I was honest with them, honest with myself, and honest to the Lord. When asked "where we've been," we told the saints that we are struggling to follow the Lord. I never voiced my concerns to the saints in general. For a few years afterwards, I would visit once a month to break bread and see the saints. I still see some of the saints. I found that leaving was easier than sticking around. Workers under TC could become quite abusive at times, just to maintain their power, having learned bad habits from TC.

If you want to leave, just leave. Just tell them you are trying to follow the Lord. Don't argue with them. Don't reason with them. Don't try to persuade them. Don't even try to answer why. Just thank them, and tell them you will pray about it. Let them have the last word as you say thanks and good bye.

I'm interested if you left because of TC influence or because of something greater about LSM and the LC in general?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Jay

I'm interested if you left because of TC influence or because of something greater about LSM and the LC in general?

After I read John Ingall’s account of events, I had the conviction within that he was speaking the truth, fairly and accurately. Reading the old Bereans forum, I was shocked at the accumulated and covered up corruption surrounding WL and his two sons, and lost all respect for LSM in general, including the Blendeds.

I have much more respect for TC, his teaching and character, but not the way he treats other brothers. Authority has gone to his head. Over the years I had migrated twice to start new LC’s in new cities. Then I would watch how TC would beat up our elders, thru public shaming and humiliation, in order to bring them under absolute submission. Supposedly this practice, part of the so-called “recovery” handed down by Barber, Née, and Lee, was a scriptural pattern, yet not one verse supports this. Every brother was expendable except for TC. I also was subject to abuses on a local level. I may have stayed if any of these three (national, regional, local) was upright, and treated people respectfully as servants of the Lord.

[TheStarswillFall]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I have much more respect for TC, his teaching and character, but not the way he treats other brothers. Authority has gone to his head. Over the years I had migrated twice to start new LC’s in new cities. Then I would watch how TC would beat up our elders, thru public shaming and humiliation, in order to bring them under absolute submission. Supposedly this practice, part of the so-called “recovery” handed down by Barber, Née, and Lee, was a scriptural pattern, yet not one verse supports this. Every brother was expendable except for TC. I also was subject to abuses on a local level. I may have stayed if any of these three (national, regional, local) was upright, and treated people respectfully as servants of the Lord.

How can you claim to respect TC's character "much more" while simultaneously alluding to his deplorable dealings with serving brothers?

It is altogether clear that TC is cut from the same mould as WL and his chronies. These "Deputy Authorities" are not servants of men for Christ's sake - they pervert the truth by seeking a following among the Lord's people (Acts 20:30). Did the Lord not say "by their fruit you will know them" ?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by TheStarswillFall

How can you claim to respect TC's character "much more" while simultaneously alluding to his deplorable dealings with serving brothers?

It is altogether clear that TC is cut from the same mould as WL and his chronies. These "Deputy Authorities" are not servants of men for Christ's sake - they pervert the truth by seeking a following among the Lord's people (Acts 20:30). Did the Lord not say "by their fruit you will know them" ?

I thought that might raise a few eyebrows. The comparison was relative. Cleveland never had the moral and financial scandals that Anaheim had. Yes, TC learned the same public shaming techniques in the brothers’ meetings, but he treated others with respect. Obviously I found all LC leadership untenable. Many others felt the same.

[ACuriousFellow]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Yes, TC learned the same public shaming techniques in the brothers’ meetings, but he treated others with respect. Obviously I found all LC leadership untenable. Many others felt the same.

I'm getting quite a dose of cognitive dissonance here. Someone who makes a regular habit of publicly bullying and shaming the sheep that God has entrusted to him hardly seems respectful.

The vibe that I'm getting is that Titus Chu was good with organizing his assembly in a practical manner and with brutal efficiency, much like Lee was, but that he was only rainbows and sunshine so long as he felt you were under his thumb, which once again mirrors Lee's general behavior. Otherwise, he would take a huge dump on you in front of the assembly, which, yet again, shows the training he received from Lee.

This is not the kind of man I would call "respectful," even if he seems nice and fair to others when he's not at the pulpit. At best, from what I have seen of your testimony and that of a few others who have come from the Local Churches in the Ohio area, I would say he is selectively respectful to others when it suits him.

Perhaps there is an important distinction to be made here between an effective leader and a good leader.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by Ohio

After I read John Ingall’s account of events, I had the conviction within that he was speaking the truth, fairly and accurately. Reading the old Bereans forum, I was shocked at the accumulated and covered up corruption surrounding WL and his two sons, and lost all respect for LSM in general, including the Blendeds.

I have much more respect for TC, his teaching and character, but not the way he treats other brothers. Authority has gone to his head. Over the years I had migrated twice to start new LC’s in new cities. Then I would watch how TC would beat up our elders, thru public shaming and humiliation, in order to bring them under absolute submission. Supposedly this practice, part of the so-called “recovery” handed down by Barber, Née, and Lee, was a scriptural pattern, yet not one verse supports this. Every brother was expendable except for TC. I also was subject to abuses on a local level. I may have stayed if any of these three (national, regional, local) was upright, and treated people respectfully as servants of the Lord.

Yeah I know virtually nothing about TC, except that I once saw him on a video (maybe on Youtube) many years ago and his expression and demeaner did not at all look righteous. He had the vibe of a fox or a really corrupt car salesman. And I think I saw one of his lackies speaking in a meeting and he as well had a dark demeanor about him. That's all I really know about TC

I'm wondering if his rebellion is similar to Bill Freeman's rebellion in Moses Lake. We were always told it was because of ambition for position and because these big brothers were rebels and they were running their locality independently of LSM (but I thought each locality has its own autonomy?). Maybe it was for position and power, but also maybe they smelled blood in the water due to Lee's major failures. Similar to how king David's monarchy was thrown into chaos after his major sins, and how his trusted men who were by his side in war had turned on him after his major failures. But then also it makes you wonder why was Lee ever in that position in the first place? Why was he in the position of a king and why was he treated like a king in all the churches? I think he just reveled in the glory of that position and he really didn't do much that I saw to quell it. I mean compare that to Paul's life or Jesus's life. They were always suffering, always on the move, never seeking celebrity status, never reveling in their accomplishments, never boasting from pride or the flesh, always seeking out the lowly, always helping and healing, always ready to live Christ and spread the gospel, always humble and lowly in their demeanor and actions, and actively shooting down any attempts to crown them by their followers. Yet we see pretty much practically the opposite behavior with how the LC revers and uplifts Nee and Lee

Granted Lee was the benefactor of the LC and he was the sole owner of the LSM business, and he was the founder probably of every church in the Philippines and the U.S. But I've heard him say in his own books "The churches don't belong to me, they belong to the Lord." Just seems like a lot of duplicity and say one thing do another type behavior

I remember Ed Marks told a story once about one time when he went to brother Lee's house and somehow the conversation between he and Lee ended up in Ed saying something along the lines of "We aren't the right type of people," and Lee saying "If we were the right people the Lord would be back already." Which knowing what I know now absolutely hits differently then it did then