Who condemns you ?

In the light of the recent turmoil ( isn't there always one going on?) I came across this verse today and it was so encouraging.

John 8 "And straightening up , Jesus said to her,

"Woman, where are they?
Did no one condemn you?"

vs.11 "And she said, "No one Lord".
And Jesus to her -

"Neither do I condemn you: go your way and sin no more. "

I am always amazed at Jesus humanity. His presence was in a sense a judgement to her, yet he went on to give her a way to go on. "Sin no more."

Who condemns us?

[aron]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

In the light of the recent turmoil ( isn't there always one going on?) I came across this verse today and it was so encouraging.

John 8 "And straightening up , Jesus said to her,

"Woman, where are they?
Did no one condemn you?"

vs.11 "And she said, "No one Lord".
And Jesus to her -

"Neither do I condemn you: go your way and sin no more. "

I am always amazed at Jesus humanity. His presence was in a sense a judgement to her, yet he went on to give her a way to go on. "Sin no more."

Who condemns us?

The story in John 8 is a good reason (among many) to avoid the ministry of Witness Lee. His was a ministry of condemnation. Of course he didn't call it that, or he wouldn't have sold us so many books. He called it "training" and "perfecting". He wasn't really condemning us, was he? But look at what he said: "Poor Christianity, too poor"; or, "dark", "satanic", "twisted", "devilish", "fallen" or so forth. Everyone else was in Great Harlot Babylon, mother of the whores of the earth, and so forth. Unrelieved condemnation poured out, universal and blanket judgment(s) on one and all.

But if any tried to "critique" WL, why they were "attacking" and "negative" and "rebellious". From WL, every other Christian assembly was "satanic" and every ministry save his was hopelessly defective and "fallen" but on the flip side, "God sees no iniquity in Israel [aka The Lord's Recovery Church of Lee]".

But everyone else got the "critique", a la "Affirmation and Critique". Except WL, who only got the "Affirmation". No critique allowed. Same with Watchman Nee and Miss Barber.

Once in a meeting WL said, "There is a dark room. Go there", and made a little shoving motion with his hands, palms down, like he was pushing some trash off the top of a table. Everyone in the audience shifted nervously, a sister giggled. Ostensibly we were getting a teaching on "dispensational punishment", the fabled "thousand years of darkness", but really he was displacing his fear onto us. He tricked us, we felt that if we "took it" then we were "made better" and might "escape judgment" but the opposite was the effect. By accepting his condemnation, we unwittingly put ourselves under a curse.

It was a trick - he (temporarily) felt better, and we (temporarily) felt better because he felt better, but later we felt worse. Like EM said to ZNP, "It made WL happy", but eventually the 'happiness' was gone.

I believe that we need to see it for what it is, call it out, and reject it. We should affirm one another's faith, wherever we are in our walk. No one is beyond affirmation, encouragement. Only then can God encourage and affirm us. "How you treat others is how God will treat you."

Here is another post I wrote, on how women were treated in the LC. The issue is very similar. Displaced shame. Displaced fear. Displaced self-condemnation.

Originally Posted by aron

That's why I thought the quote by Nee (post # 63) - "Women cannot be great in their persons" - was so interesting. Because it seemed to imply that men, by contrast, can be great in their persons. Which is not following Jesus at all. And once you buy into the illusion, that you're under a great man, the fear (from inadequacy/powerlessness/shame) behind that illusion starts to control you. The shame is transferred. Jesus took the shame away, but the 'great man' transfers his shame to you.