Open Letter to Saints in The Local Churches - Andrea McArdle

[UntoHim]

Andrea recently added this to her Open Letter:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit: the Church in Houston has held a corporate prayer meeting (8.7.19) over this letter in which they tell the Saints I am lying, gossiping and spreading rumors. Joe Davis who gave the message also said that because I wrote this letter I will not be an overcomer.

You can listen to that message here:
http://www.churchinhouston.org/category/audio/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-

[Ohio]

And because of the way Joe Davis lies about people and hides evil, he will not be an overcomer!

But perhaps I am wrong. Isn't there a verse in Revelations that says, "He who overcomes by publicly lying about God's people and protecting the ministry of Lee will escape the judgment seat of Christ."

Help me out here folks. Where's that verse at?

[Raptor]

Christ is uniquely and exclusively qualified to judge:
Acts 10:42 And He has charged us to proclaim to the people and solemnly testify that this is the One who was designated by God to be the Judge of the living and the dead.

It is the judgement seat of Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all be manifested before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done through the body according to what he has practiced, whether good or bad.

It is the Lord Himself who is the righteous Judge.
2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, with which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will recompense me in that day, and not only me but also all those who have loved His appearing.

He alone decides who will receive a reward.
Revelation 2&3. To him who overcomes, to him I will ....
Revelation 22:12 Behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me to render to each one as his work is.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Andrea recently added this to her Open Letter:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit: the Church in Houston has held a corporate prayer meeting (8.7.19) over this letter in which they tell the Saints I am lying, gossiping and spreading rumors. Joe Davis who gave the message also said that because I wrote this letter I will not be an overcomer.

You can listen to that message here:
http://www.churchinhouston.org/category/audio/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-

1. He characterized this letter as "opposition" to what the Lord is doing. Said clearly that the report on the social media was "full of untruths". But said that they needed a response now that it is out there. His response was this:

"Gossiping -- nothing to do with the tree of life"

and then had everyone parrot him in saying "I do not want to listen to these things".

It was stunningly childish.

I then learned that the weekly prayer meeting in Houston was now a "once a month corporate prayer meeting" that was composed of what? This message. The message was the entire prayer meeting.

He then said that rumors are lies and dug up the story of how rumors were spread about Watchman Nee living with a woman when in fact it was his mother!

He then laughed like a lunatic and said "I am so happy that rumors are being spread, these are signs that the victory is ours."

Finally, "those who wrote these things rejected the church, they can't be an overcomer".

Stunning, jaw droppingly stunning. Has he never read 1 Corinthians where Paul writes about just this thing in condemning sexual immorality being tolerated in Corinth? What Paul can't be an overcomer because he rejected the church?

Seriously, still pushing the story about WN's mother? Please show me where WL ever said this in his published, black and white ministry where he might actually be held accountable for it.

[Nell]

I found this shocking series of articles in the Houston Chronicle regarding longstanding sexual abuse cover ups in the Southern Baptist Convention.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/loc...buse-of-faith/

Joe Davis is a former employee of the Chronicle.

Further, this was posted on Fox News this morning:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/churches-...-sex-offenders

Nell

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Nell

Further, this was posted on Fox News this morning:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/churches-...-sex-offenders

Nell

Did I misunderstand this letter? I was under the impression that the person alleged to have been molested was an adult, a college student, in the young people's meetings. Second, no one said the person accused of committing this act had a record as a sex offender. What exactly are you proposing leaders of a church to do? Also, a "prayer partner" is hardly a position of authority within the church.

Finally, the account given by the "victim" raises some questions. Like "what happened" and "what do you mean by groomed". I don't really see how any leader of the church could respond to accusations they didn't do everything within their power unless we know the answers to these questions.

Also, this matter of going to the police. If the victim is an adult you are going to have to get that person to go to the police. In the end, unless that person presses charges all you will get is a lawsuit of slander against you.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Did I misunderstand this letter? I was under the impression that the person alleged to have been molested was an adult, a college student, in the young people's meetings. Second, no one said the person accused of committing this act had a record as a sex offender. What exactly are you proposing leaders of a church to do? Also, a "prayer partner" is hardly a position of authority within the church.

Finally, the account given by the "victim" raises some questions. Like "what happened" and "what do you mean by groomed". I don't really see how any leader of the church could respond to accusations they didn't do everything within their power unless we know the answers to these questions.

Also, this matter of going to the police. If the victim is an adult you are going to have to get that person to go to the police. In the end, unless that person presses charges all you will get is a lawsuit of slander against you.

I posted links of interest. I am not the author of these links. I made no proposals. I made no comments on these articles. Perhaps YOU should contact the author and ask any questions you may have. Perhaps YOU should refrain from pointing fingers and making assumptions where none exist.

The cover up of sexual abuse in churches is not unique to the Catholics or the Baptists.

Nell

[Bubbles!]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Did I misunderstand this letter? I was under the impression that the person alleged to have been molested was an adult, a college student, in the young people's meetings. Second, no one said the person accused of committing this act had a record as a sex offender. What exactly are you proposing leaders of a church to do? Also, a "prayer partner" is hardly a position of authority within the church.

Finally, the account given by the "victim" raises some questions. Like "what happened" and "what do you mean by groomed". I don't really see how any leader of the church could respond to accusations they didn't do everything within their power unless we know the answers to these questions.

Also, this matter of going to the police. If the victim is an adult you are going to have to get that person to go to the police. In the end, unless that person presses charges all you will get is a lawsuit of slander against you.

Cudos to you ZNP, for exercising some common sense. We can't just scream and rant about things off the top of our heads, just because we have anger issues. An adult has to take responsibility for him/her self. Just because you don't like a certain group doesn't mean that you can bash all that you want.
I will add that if what allegedly happened to that young brother, happened to me, I would immediately go to the police, and bypass all of the ''covering'' stuff. I'd do everything in MY power ( not some elder's ) to put the perp in jail.
ZNP, exactly what finger pointing and accusing did you do, as alleged by Nell?

[UntoHim]

So my friend Bubbles,

Did you actually read the letter that Andrea wrote, or are you just screaming and ranting off of the top of your head?

If you read the letter (which I doubt you did in full), which part of the letter indicated that this brother had "anger issues"? Not a trick question Bubbles - please enlighten us about this brother's anger issues.

Bubbles, you are welcomed to dialogue and discuss. What you are not welcomed to do is condemn and attack the victim without cause or warrant, as is done in the Local Church of Witness Lee. Why is your first inclination to believe the attacker rather than the victim? I hope you realize that those days are OVER...not only in society in general, but maybe even in the Local Church of Witness Lee specifically. Maybe you need to do some pray-reading with Chris Wilde...He has said that these days are over as well. (praise God for this!)

Let me assure you, those days are absolutely, unequivocally OVER here on LocalChurchDiscussions! The attacker and the abuser no longer have the upper hand as they did in the Local Church of Witness Lee. The attacker and the abuser no longer have the benefit of the doubt. They have not earned the benefit of the doubt here in this venue. Quite the contrary, they are discredited and proven guilty until and unless some strong evidence comes forth to prove otherwise.

The victim rules and reigns here. "Let God be true, but every man a liar"
-

[Peter Debelak]

Originally Posted by Bubbles!

Cudos to you ZNP, for exercising some common sense. We can't just scream and rant about things off the top of our heads, just because we have anger issues. An adult has to take responsibility for him/her self. Just because you don't like a certain group doesn't mean that you can bash all that you want.
I will add that if what allegedly happened to that young brother, happened to me, I would immediately go to the police, and bypass all of the ''covering'' stuff. I'd do everything in MY power ( not some elder's ) to put the perp in jail.
ZNP, exactly what finger pointing and accusing did you do, as alleged by Nell?

The presumption that “you know what you would do if the trauma happened to you” is an indication that you haven’t experienced very much trauma. And certainly not any of the kind described in the letter.

Your comment wreaks of lack of empathy and attention to the messiness of human experience.

We are talking about children. And when not talking about children, we are talking about people who are enmeshed in a very intense power dynamic.

Their identities have long been established by acceptance in the group. Whistle blowing or going to the authorities would absolutely undo that, and with it, your very identity.

Do you have any empathy for that being a possibility. And the tragic choice that young person has to face in that decision?

Where is your pause? To take something seriously and perhaps even put yourself in another’s shoes?

[Peter Debelak]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Did I misunderstand this letter? I was under the impression that the person alleged to have been molested was an adult, a college student, in the young people's meetings. Second, no one said the person accused of committing this act had a record as a sex offender. What exactly are you proposing leaders of a church to do? Also, a "prayer partner" is hardly a position of authority within the church.

Finally, the account given by the "victim" raises some questions. Like "what happened" and "what do you mean by groomed". I don't really see how any leader of the church could respond to accusations they didn't do everything within their power unless we know the answers to these questions.

Also, this matter of going to the police. If the victim is an adult you are going to have to get that person to go to the police. In the end, unless that person presses charges all you will get is a lawsuit of slander against you.

The police should be involved.

There will be questions, like the ones you raised.

But are they even asked? The police ought to be a safeguard - not the only reason concerns are addressed.

Where is the internal reaction to such things where the first impulse isn’t to cover up and deflect?

That much should be clear from the letter, even as you still have valid questions.

[UntoHim]

Good points Peter.

Brothers and sisters, Andrea McArdle has not been the only sister to come out to expose what can only be called an epidemic of abuse in the Local Church of Witness Lee. It is bad enough when a culture of abuse is allowed to foster in any group, but when the first instinct of the leadership is to cover up the abuse, the victim inevitably suffers further abuse and attacking. In the case of the Local Church, many times the cover up is to protect the religious system created by Witness Lee, and continued by many of his followers. Anyone and everyone, no matter what their status is in the movement, is expendable. (except for Lee of course) The image of this little sect that they call "the Lord's Recovery" must be protected at any cost - even at the cost of the lives of the littlest of sheep. Our Lord's mandate to leave the ninety-nine to save the one lost is ignored and even despised. The little sheep is left to die, and the wolf is protected and allowed to attack again. How many times are we going to see this scenario play out in the Local Church and simply sit on our hands and keep silent?

Originally Posted by Peter Debelak in response to Bubbles

We are talking about children. And when not talking about children, we are talking about people who are enmeshed in a very intense power dynamic.
Their identities have long been established by acceptance in the group. Whistle blowing or going to the authorities would absolutely undo that, and with it, your very identity.

And when we are not talking about children, in many cases we are talking about sisters that have been abused by brothers who have been placed in a position of trust over them. This dynamic in the Local Church goes back to at least the 1970s with Phillip Lee's reign of terror in the LSM office. Now with the startling revelations of Dr. Lily Hsu in her book, we are now facing the reality that these kind of things have been happening from the beginning of the movement. Lord, have mercy.
-

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

In the case of the Local Church, many times the cover up is to protect the religious system created by Witness Lee, and continued by many of his followers. Anyone and everyone, no matter what their status is in the movement, is expendable. (except for Lee of course) The image of this little sect that they call "the Lord's Recovery" must be protected at any cost - even at the cost of the lives of the littlest of sheep. Our Lord's mandate to leave the ninety-nine to save the one lost is ignored and even despised. The little sheep is left to die, and the wolf is protected and allowed to attack again. How many times are we going to see this scenario play out in the Local Church and simply sit on our hands and keep silent?

And when we are not talking about children, in many cases we are talking about sisters that have been abused by brothers who have been placed in a position of trust over them. This dynamic in the Local Church goes back to at least the 1970s with Phillip Lee's reign of terror in the LSM office. Now with the startling revelations of Dr. Lily Hsu in her book, we are now facing the reality that these kind of things have been happening from the beginning of the movement. Lord, have mercy.
-

I cut my ties with LSM, and lost all respect for WL, when I learned what Witness Lee did to protect his own degenerate and profligate sons and simultaneously disgrace the reputations of those men of God who attempted to protect the victims of these brutish perps. I also cut ties with Titus Chu, who knew all the filthy facts of the behind-the-scenes-situations at LSM, only to reject righteousness and the plight of these victims in order to "take a stand" for WL, his so-called "spiritual father."

The audio recording of Joe Davis in Houston makes it abundantly clear that all of these cases of abuse are known by the Recovery leaders and readily dismissed as rumors. JD made it clear that they "have heard this all before" going back to Watchman's Nee excommunication by the church in Shanghai some 77 years ago.

Does anyone really believe that the elders in Shanghai, all appointed by Nee himself, would arbitrarily excommunicate him over some spurious false allegation that he was "living with his mother." To accept that well-worn tale of persecution proffered by Lee himself is to believe that the elders in the Recovery's largest church in China were dunces, simpletons, idiots, and fools at best. Would they not first ask for witnesses and some examination of facts as demanded by I Timothy 5.19-20? Yes, of course they would!

Yet these bogus stories and tales of old are still passed on to the saints at large in today's Recovery.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Nell

I found this shocking series of articles in the Houston Chronicle regarding longstanding sexual abuse cover ups in the Southern Baptist Convention.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/loc...buse-of-faith/

Joe Davis is a former employee of the Chronicle.

Further, this was posted on Fox News this morning:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/churches-...-sex-offenders

Nell

Great links Nell. Thanks. The sexual abuse is one thing -- as long as humans are involved it's gonna happen -- but the cover up is another.

Long ago, when I was a kid, I attended a very conservative Southern Baptist church here in Kentucky. When I moved back here I attended it again. But it was too conservative for my liking.

But my cousin has been in attendance for decades ; deacon, elder figure, only reader of Koine Greek, and such.

A few years ago he told me what happened at his church : The preacher got caught stealing from members, and more cats jumped out of the bag, so to speak : like rape of a single sister.

So what did the church do to this preacher? They sent him up the road with a letter of good recommendation.

Why? Because they didn't want to stain the reputation of the church. And they don't even have the Noah type doctrine of covering God's delegated anointed ... so no 'covering' doctrine.

But cover up they did. When called on the carpet the preacher's wife admitted that he was doing it at every church that hired him as a preacher. Now that preacher can go do it to another church.

I hate to be cyclical, but this is what we get, and can expect, as long as humans are involved. Human nature has a long, long, long -- going back into prehistory days even -- of being very stubborn, and impossible to eradicate.

But it doesn't help if abuse is covered up, and not reported to authorities.