Outer Darkness?

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Well, there are many views as to who the 10 virgins actually are. If you read my post from awhile back, I point out that I think they are believers, because they are all virgins (pure) and have oil (Spirit) in their lamps. However, I'm not as dogmatic about their exact identity as I used to be . . . (a few think, with some merit, that they are actually Jewish believers)

The main point, irrregardless [sic], is BE READY!

There is no difference between a Jewish believer and a Gentile believer.

[OBW]

It is hard to make everything in this parable tie together. We tend to insist on either a kind of purgatory for the foolish virgins, or an Arminian understanding of salvation (salvation can be lost).

And I will be the first to say that the Calvinist position can only be arrived at through ignoring contrary passages (or pulling a "Lee" and arguing some overriding principle means that the contrary passages must mean something else). But the Arminian position also has problems with passages, therefore is not simply the correct answer.

I have been on both sides of this issue during my years as a Christian and am now convinced that the only value in arguing it is to argue who is in and who is out (in terms of alleged heresy). But the line is drawn in a muddy bog and is therefore unimportant. (I will say that I have a significant problem with Calvinism, per se, but not necessarily to the extent of buying into Arminianism. Suffice it to say that even John 3:16 says "whosoever believeS," not "whosoever believeD." But this is another discussion to have somewhere else.)

As someone said, the point seems to be to be ready at all times. While the second coming may still be days, years, even Millennia away, the time of reckoning for each of us is, at most, only some years away. I would suggest that the point of the parable is not to support loss of salvation, or cause disputes over unstated doctrines, but to imply that there is a cost —of unspecified nature — to not being ready. Everything else is to over-milk the metaphors/parable.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by OBW

As someone said, the point seems to be to be ready at all times. While the second coming may still be days, years, even Millennia away, the time of reckoning for each of us is, at most, only some years away. I would suggest that the point of the parable is not to support loss of salvation, or cause disputes over unstated doctrines, but to imply that there is a cost —of unspecified nature — to not being ready. Everything else is to over-milk the metaphors/parable.

I think there is reason to believe, according to 2 Peter 3:8-10*, that when the last one is saved who can be, then the Father will say to the Son, "It is time."

*"The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief."

[Cal]

Originally Posted by OBW

As someone said, the point seems to be to be ready at all times. While the second coming may still be days, years, even Millennia away, the time of reckoning for each of us is, at most, only some years away. I would suggest that the point of the parable is not to support loss of salvation, or cause disputes over unstated doctrines, but to imply that there is a cost —of unspecified nature — to not being ready. Everything else is to over-milk the metaphors/parable.

I agree with this. Obviously it's in our nature to want to play down any possible punishment. But the opposite error is to overplay those possibilities, to the point of obsession with them. We think if we can nail down the exact consequences, then we can control them. So we try to figure out what missing the marriage feast means. Is it for the whole 1000 years? Is for only part? In a perverse way it can become trying to figure out what we can get away with.

In the end, though, I think any displeasure from the Lord is going to be the worst thing we can experience. So we should seek to please him--not to earn our way into anything, but simply to be faithful. And if we truly love him, we should naturally seek to be faithful.

Suffice to know that he means it when he tells us to be obedient. Take care of that and you'll have no problem, I should think.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Igzy

We think if we can nail down the exact consequences, then we can control them. So we try to figure out what missing the marriage feast means. Is it for the whole 1000 years? Is for only part? In a perverse way it can become trying to figure out what we can get away with.

The next question is whether the 1,000 years is something actual or something metaphorical. When you recognize the nature of the whole writing of Revelation, it is not so clear that there are any of the things as identifiable phenomenon. But there is significant spiritual significance.

Same should be applied to this parable. There is surely a cost for not having the lamps full of oil. But what that means is not stated. The importance is not what goes wrong, but keeping things right.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by OBW

There is surely a cost for not having the lamps full of oil. But what that means is not stated. The importance is not what goes wrong, but keeping things right.

And this is pretty much where I have landed as of late. That is, don't get all wrapped around the axle trying to figure out exact details, which can be a monumental distraction, and instead focus on Him! (which, of course, is - to say the least - most scriptural)

[ZNPaaneah]

Many of the toxic waste dumps will take 1,000 years to fully clean up. So the matter of "restoration of all things" will almost certainly be 1,000 years.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Many of the toxic waste dumps will take 1,000 years to fully clean up. So the matter of "restoration of all things" will almost certainly be 1,000 years.

And we might be here pre-rapture for 5 times that, therefore the possibility that man can get that one problem right and corrected without a post-rapture 1,000 years.

And we are dealing with a God who is capable of restoring all things right now — including toxic waste dumps — and requires no time.

So the answer is essentially irrelevant.

The point is not to assert that the answer is "here," or "there," but to recognize that there is more to following Christ than salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. And that there is a cost to failures at following. And a cost to not following at all. Jesus spoke of the present generation not dying. John said "what must soon take place." Even in metaphorical terms, the typical reader would have presumed that it was probably their lifetime. While that turned out to be untrue (except to note that at each one's death, the day of reckoning has occurred), it is still a warning to us today. Whatever all those metaphors in Revelation and in those particular parables actually means (and even whether each one has a specific event tied to them, or are just alternate ways to catch our attention) should not matter. The warnings are to drive us to consider what we will do about our living now, not how to figure out what is to come then.