Erroneous Teaching of Lee Concerning Natural Affection

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Witness Lee's teaching has made a big mistake concerning natural affection.

It depends how you define "natural affection". I don't think the Local Church teaching is in agreement with the actual scriptural meaning. The Greek word for natural affection in 2 Tim 3:3 is "astorgos" which is derived from the Greek "storge" or "familial love".

Jesus does talk about how ONLY having a type of reciprocal familial love is unprofitable (Luke 6:32).

Christians however are to love even our enemies and not only friends and relatives or those in our ideological circles or what have you. So if you're not able to love those that hate you and have hurt you, then maybe you do only know one type of affection, whether you call it "natural affection" or not. Or worse you have neither.

In Timothy, Paul is saying that a time will come when even those that only knew "familial love" will not even have that and so "Father will be divided against son and son against father; mother against daughter and daughter against mother; and mother-in-law against daughter-in-law.." (Luke 12:53). He's not talking about actual Christians.

Either way the Local Church teaching is deceptive and full of equivocation. Going to the root, the attack on natural affection actually started with Watchman Nee. Nee stated in The Latent Power of the Soul, "how useless was emotion" and in The Spiritual Man Nee states that "Our natural likes and dislikes do not have any part here; natural affection must lose its power" and other similar things.

If anything, the Local Churches only practice natural affection or love for only those within their ideological family. But even that's in question here.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Jo S

If anything, the Local Churches only practice natural affection or love for only those within their ideological family. But even that's in question here.

How I perceived LC practice of natural affection similar to Luke 6:32. It's common to love those who love the ministry, yet as soon as any element of the ministry is questioned, one is turned on in an instant.
I have not seen anyone question the motive for Lee's teaching against natural affection?
Natural affection being scrutinized kind of made it difficult to bond and be built with a brother/sister through whom one can open up to.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Terry

I have not seen anyone question the motive for Lee's teaching against natural affection?
Natural affection being scrutinized kind of made it difficult to bond and be built with a brother/sister through whom one can open up to.

I really didn't become aware that the LC had this type of teaching until I had started attending some of the conferences and trainings and heard it spoken from the podium. I remember when I attended some of the summer college trainings that were held, one of the rules they would have for us was "no engaging in small talk."

I don't know if people really took it seriously or not, but I always did. In fact, I was always relatively introverted to begin with so it made me almost afraid to engage in conversation sometimes, because then when anyone actually did want to just have a normal conversation I would wonder if it was a trap or not.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I really didn't become aware that the LC had this type of teaching until I had started attending some of the conferences and trainings and heard it spoken from the podium. I remember when I attended some of the summer college trainings that were held, one of the rules they would have for us was "no engaging in small talk."

I don't know if people really took it seriously or not, but I always did. In fact, I was always relatively introverted to begin with so it made me almost afraid to engage in conversation sometimes, because then when anyone actually did want to just have a normal conversation I would wonder if it was a trap or not.

I think this is a good example of a disconnect in experiences in the LC. There are some people who don't take things to heart and some who do. Some people who hear a rule and immediately discard it as not for them and don't have the feelings of guilt about it. Some people who take it to heart and are greatly affected by it.

Then decades later when the inevitable problems from the church arise, the ones who didn't take things to heart and were unaffected then try to drown out the ones who did and were affected.

I fell into the "took it to heart and was affected" category.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Trapped

I think this is a good example of a disconnect in experiences in the LC. There are some people who don't take things to heart and some who do. Some people who hear a rule and immediately discard it as not for them and don't have the feelings of guilt about it. Some people who take it to heart and are greatly affected by it.

Then decades later when the inevitable problems from the church arise, the ones who didn't take things to heart and were unaffected then try to drown out the ones who did and were affected.

I fell into the "took it to heart and was affected" category.

Yeah, it reminds me of when I lived in a brothers house and one of the rules was no watching movies. I was really the only one that attempted to follow that rule. But then I gave up on it since no one else seemed to care. Almost immediately, I got caught watching a movie and got in trouble. Nobody else did though, not sure why. That's the kind of stuff that eventually caused me to become disillusioned with the whole thing.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Yeah, it reminds me of when I lived in a brothers house and one of the rules was no watching movies. I was really the only one that attempted to follow that rule. But then I gave up on it since no one else seemed to care. Almost immediately, I got caught watching a movie and got in trouble. Nobody else did though, not sure why. That's the kind of stuff that eventually caused me to become disillusioned with the whole thing.

I know what you mean. We all attempted to tow the line of LC legalism with such things, because we thought it was being genuinely spiritual. I never even saw anyone have just one glass of wine or a beer (except one Aussie bro I knew, who was completely unreligious). After experiencing freedom from these kind of legal notions over the past 20 years, with no one putting their expectations on me, I see how legalistic and enslaving it all was! For instance, now if some of us bros go out for a little fellowship and someone orders a beer (almost always just one, BTW), no one thinks anything about it. If someone sees a really good movie (sometimes a Christian movie, sometimes not), we often hear about it from them. Because we all know we have the real freedom in Christ to do so. (but also, not all things are "profitable" to share)

However, let me add, that sometimes brothers now also talk about how they personally are being carried away with too much "entertainment," and on occasion ask for prayer about that. Great - we have the freedom to be open and candid with each other about such things! To me, this is a healthy Christian environment. This reminds me a little of what CS Lewis talked about -the relationship he had with other bros in their little group, which they fondly called the "Inklings" (because many of them were writers, who included such folks as JR Tolkien). They'd have a beer together, smoke a cigar and fellowship about their Christian life, the world, etc.

If only I saw the freedom in Christ then according to what I see now . . .

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

I know what you mean. We all attempted to tow the line of LC legalism with such things, because we thought it was being genuinely spiritual. I never even saw anyone have just one glass of wine or a beer (except one Aussie bro I knew, who was completely unreligious). After experiencing freedom from these kind of legal notions over the past 20 years, with no one putting their expectations on me, I see how legalistic and enslaving it all was! For instance, now if some of us bros go out for a little fellowship and someone orders a beer (almost always just one, BTW), no one thinks anything about it. If someone sees a really good movie (sometimes a Christian movie, sometimes not), we often hear about it from them. Because we all know we have the real freedom in Christ to do so. (but also, not all things are "profitable" to share)

However, let me add, that sometimes brothers now also talk about how they personally are being carried away with too much "entertainment," and on occasion ask for prayer about that. Great - we have the freedom to be open and candid with each other about such things! To me, this is a healthy Christian environment. This reminds me a little of what CS Lewis talked about -the relationship he had with other bros in their little group, which they fondly called the "Inklings" (because many of them were writers, who included such folks as JR Tolkien). They'd have a beer together, smoke a cigar and fellowship about their Christian life, the world, etc.

If only I saw the freedom in Christ then according to what I see now . . .

Especially because I grew up in the LC, I really didn't know any better when it came to a lot of the legalism. I though that such things were necessary for spirituality. And I think that even when I did question things, I still took the LC seriously. It never made any sense to me that if people really believed the LC to be what it claims to be, they why would there be so many members that were not really all that serious about it. What became apparent later on was that many people were just along for the ride. They already knew better than to go along with some of the extremes, but they also knew better than to vocalize that.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Yeah, it reminds me of when I lived in a brothers house and one of the rules was no watching movies. I was really the only one that attempted to follow that rule. But then I gave up on it since no one else seemed to care. Almost immediately, I got caught watching a movie and got in trouble. Nobody else did though, not sure why. That's the kind of stuff that eventually caused me to become disillusioned with the whole thing.

I was one who tended to keep the rules in the brothers' house. One of the rules was paying the monthly room and board. When I wondered why there was no money for food, someone whispered that most of the brothers didn't have money to contribute. Oh well. So much for rules.