What is God's Economy?

[aron]

Originally Posted by Raptor

The Bible starts with God, ends with the New Jerusalem and in the middle, Jesus Christ crucified.

Paul writes not to teach other than God's economy, which is in faith. And then the New Jerusalem has 'nations' [Gk: ethnoi] bringing their glory to it... seems to have shades of Solomon indeed.

1 Kings 4:21 And Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the Euphrates River to the land of the Philistines, as far as the border of Egypt. These countries brought tribute and were Solomon's subjects all his life.

1 Kings 10:25 Year after year, everyone who came brought a gift--articles of silver and gold, robes, weapons and spices, and horses and mules.

Lee told us that these ethnoi in Rev. 21 weren't Christian believers or Jews but were unbelievers who did good works for 3.5 years. Seems like good works can save you in the NT? Sometimes? That's God's economy?

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by aron

Paul writes not to teach other than God's economy, which is in faith.

The Bible
starts with God, ends with the New Jerusalem and in the middle, Jesus Christ crucified.

Ephesians chapter 1
starts with God, ends with the Church, His Body, the fullness of the One who fills all in all (New Jerusalem), and in the middle, In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses (Jesus Christ crucified)

[aron]

Continuing post #261, Paul devotes 2 whole chapters, 2 Corinthians 7 and 8, to the collection for the poor in Jerusalem. Here are the first 4 verses from chapter 7.

"And now, brothers and sisters, we want you to know about the grace that God has given the Macedonian churches. In the midst of a very severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity. For I testify that they gave as much as they were able, and even beyond their ability. Entirely on their own, they urgently pleaded with us for the privilege of sharing in this service to the Lord’s people [the Jews]."

It's an interesting meditation on "grace", a word Paul uses frequently in this section. And let's not forget the 2 books written by Paul's traveling companion, Luke. Both his gospel and his acts begin with a preface dedicated to the presumably generous gentile benefactor, the "most excellent Theophilus". All of this gives us a window into God's economy as it was understood by Paul.

More in 2 Cor 7 (vv 13-15): "Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. The goal is equality, as it is written: 'The one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little' "

And this view was shared by the other apostles, to read Paul's word in Gal 2, and the word-picture painted by John in Revelation 21. Maybe, then, the stories that sprinkle the first few chapters of Acts are not disparate and puzzling anecdotes, unrelated and easily passed over and forgotten, but rather a coherent narrative whole, which lies behind Paul's missionary thrusts. The grumbling of the Hellenist widows in the daily dispensing, the desire of Ananias and his wife to with-hold some of their resources while feigning absoluteness. Luke has a story here.

Now, Witness Lee's ideas may be better than mine, as to what Paul meant in 1 Tim 1:4. But WL's ideas can be challenged and critiqued, same as anyone else's. I read an interesting anecdote on the FB discussion recently. RK was expounding on something, and when someone told him that WL taught different, he said, "Well I'm not the minister of the age". Just like that he renounced his God-given right to think, and to possess his own thoughts. I'd rather not passively receive one man's thought as a replacement for mine.

We're ultimately responsible for not only our behaviours but the thoughts that lie behind them. Trying to understand Paul's thoughts helps us to grapple with our own, and to take full ownership thereof.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by aron

But WL's ideas can be challenged and critiqued, same as anyone else's. I read an interesting anecdote on the FB discussion recently. RK was expounding on something, and someone told him that WL taught different, and he said, "Well I'm not the minister of the age". Just like that he renounced his God-given right to think, and to possess his own thoughts.

Yeah, that's the linchpin that holds the whole thing together. The great trump card. "I'm the MOTA. You have to agree with me. Discussion over. Any further talk is rebellion."

If you are in the LR, that's what you have signed up for. That's the deal. Either you like that or you don't. If you don't, leave.

But then they say, you can't leave. At some point you have to stop believing those lies, and turn on your heel. Don't expect those people to understand. That's what it comes down to.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Yeah, that's the linchpin that holds the whole thing together. The great trump card. "I'm the MOTA. You have to agree with me. Discussion over. Any further talk is rebellion."

If you are in the LR, that's what you have signed up for. That's the deal.

In some ways I've used this forum for similar purposes as WL did with the LR. I use it as a sounding board for my ideas. However, I'm not the MOTA, and my ideas get pruned by others, or ignored, or even - gasp - rejected.

But every now and then I may say something useful, or helpful to others, and that is worth it.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by aron

In some ways I've used this forum for similar purposes as WL did with the LR. I use it as a sounding board for my ideas. However, I'm not the MOTA, and my ideas get pruned by others, or ignored, or even - gasp - rejected.

But every now and then I may say something useful, or helpful to others, and that is worth it.

Yes, that's the way it's supposed to work. The beauty of it is that if we all are faithful to follow the Lord, then he will tell each of us when someone is speaking the truth. Yet we are all free. No one is controlling.

God never says, "This person is my mouthpiece. Never contradict anything he speaks and always do what he says and I will reward you greatly!" That's the stupidest thing ever, a guaranteed disaster sooner or later.

But that's how the LR thinks. The insidiousness of it is that once you let that hook get planted in your mind, its hard to free yourself from it, because it is self-reinforcing. It's like one of those traps in which the more you struggle the tighter it gets. The more you question it the more it condemns you. It defies all reason to the contrary. People succumb to it out of exhaustion and fear.

If you just think about that one idea, grasp it, you have the LR dilemma in a nutshell.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Igzy

God never says, "This person is my mouthpiece. Never contradict anything he speaks and always do what he says and I will reward you greatly!" That's the stupidest thing ever, a guaranteed disaster sooner or later. But that's how the LR thinks. The insidiousness of it is that once you let that hook get planted in your mind, its hard to free yourself from it, because it is self-reinforcing. It's like one of those traps in which the more you struggle the tighter it gets. The more you question it the more it condemns you. It defies all reason to the contrary. People succumb to it out of exhaustion and fear.

It is so stupid....how can it be so effective? There has to be an evil spirit working behind the scene. It´s a spell, just like in 3:1 "O foolish Galatians....."Who has bewitched you.."

other translations say, ....senseless, stupid, thoughtless Galatians, who...

cast a spell on you
cunningly deceived you
hypnotized you
cast an evil spell on you
put you under a spell
put you under an evil spell
sophistry has bewitched you

There must be spiritual forces of evil, an authority of darkness, maybe even something specific like a "prince of the Recovery". These are deceiving spirits and teachings of demons. Similarly, the same forces behind allowing fornication, adultery and drunkenness to go on unreproved in the name of "life", respecting persons over God, man's word over God's word, and fearing man and not in the fear of God.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Igzy

The insidiousness of it is that once you let that hook get planted in your mind, its hard to free yourself from it, because it is self-reinforcing.

And the very term "God's Economy" is the hair hiding the hook. It's a brilliant catchphrase. A shinny object. It has an appealing ring to it. But in the end it's hubris. If God does have an economy, isn't it arrogance upon arrogance to claim to be the accountant that can figure it? If it's Gods' only God can figure it.

Just who did Lee think he was?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

In some ways I've used this forum for similar purposes as WL did with the LR. I use it as a sounding board for my ideas. However, I'm not the MOTA, and my ideas get pruned by others, or ignored, or even - gasp - rejected.

But every now and then I may say something useful, or helpful to others, and that is worth it.

Is not this the real meaning of "fellowship" between God's children? Is not this also the way we grow properly? Is not this also the way the body is "tempered" together.