Intro of an ex "Church Kid"

[awareness]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

You are right to say I have only looked at one side of the debate. I took each version I had on my shelves and compared probably 15 or 20 verses against the KJV. I was really shocked at the differences, and what they did to alter the word.

The other side for me, was a testimony I saw and heard from a catholic-raised lady. She had an encounter with Jesus that converted her. Part of that story was her relating how one of her excuses to the Lord for her unbelief was the alteration of the word, the differences in translations, and her distrust of His word in these modern records. He told her it was His responsibility to uphold His truth. His word will not return to Him void! So I believe into His promise, and His ability to feed the milk and meat of the word where He intends it to go.

But after comparing the NKJV, NASB, ESV, (don't even get me started on the NIV, the Message bible) verse by verse to the KJV, I was convinced enough to get rid of all my other versions. I would be surprised to see my opinion change, however, that being said, I am open to learning more and looking at both sides, especially considering your remarks. I am sorry this grieves you, brother. What do you think about opening a separate thread on this subject, here? Or is there one already?

According to Paul :

KJV : "The letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life
ESV : "For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."
NET : "for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

Strong's :
- kill:
ἀποκτείνω
apokteinō
ap-ok-ti'-no
From G575 and κτείνω kteinō (to slay); to kill outright; figuratively to destroy: - put to death, kill, slay.

- spirit :
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

- life :
ζωοποιέω
zōopoieō
dzo-op-oy-eh'-o
From the same as G2226 and G4160; to (re-) vitalize (literally or figuratively): - make alive, give life, quicken.

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by awareness

According to Paul :

KJV : "The letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life
ESV : "For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."
NET : "for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

Strong's :
- kill:
ἀποκτείνω
apokteinō
ap-ok-ti'-no
From G575 and κτείνω kteinō (to slay); to kill outright; figuratively to destroy: - put to death, kill, slay.

- spirit :
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

- life :
ζωοποιέω
zōopoieō
dzo-op-oy-eh'-o
From the same as G2226 and G4160; to (re-) vitalize (literally or figuratively): - make alive, give life, quicken.

I have experienced the Lord as breath, breeze....physically. Once upon a time, He came to me when I needed a friend, needed a Father. When I was a little child, down on my knees, asking for Him. There is no God other than God the Father of Jesus!!

[aron]

If I was an unbeliever reading some of these posts I'd probably say, "I'm so glad I'm not a Christian!" Who wants to end up arguing over textual variants! Not that these posters are, but much of Christian discussion is about fluff. Vague, unprovable concepts, small data sets, ignorance and bias. I can still hear Witness Lee saying, "This means that" and, "This shows us that" and, "We must see that"... Assumption piled onto assumption.

"So subjective is my Christ in me..." yes so subjective. And who else would want your subjectivity as their de facto objective reality? No thanks!

Not speaking for kappagamma, but this was her thread, once.

Originally Posted by kappagamma

I was required to attend every Sunday, as well summer school of truths, conferences, and even semi-annuals when I was older. I lived in a sisters house a few years in college and attended FTT-Anaheim for two years. I would say that I was marginally in the CL until the FTT. It was there that most of the issues that I had came to the forefront and I, from that point, couldn't ignore it anymore and made my eventual (but quiet) exit. To me it was just another religion and, having been taught my whole life religion was bad... well, there you have it. Really intrigued to know if there are others here who have been through the FTT and found it to remove a veil rather than adding one?

I think this is a valid objection and should be taken on face value. If the Lord's Recovery (LR) teaches that ALL religion is bad, and an ex "Church Kid" realizes that there's nothing in the LR for them, then why not ditch religion altogether?

1. Nobody can prove God exists.
2. Nobody can prove that God raised Jesus from the dead.
3. Nobody can prove that the blood of Jesus does cleanse you from sin.
4. Nobody can prove that there is consciousness after death, which needs forgiveness to avoid suffering, torment etc.

I mean, if the whole thing ends up arguing over declensions and the meaning of the word "nature", then why not just chuck it all? I think that's a pretty good argument.

In my case, I am a Christian because I chose to believe in God (a universe with God somehow seemed 'warmer' than a universe without God [sorry]), and I thought the narrative figure of 'Jesus' still remains the most compelling story of human history. If it wasn't true, I wish it were. So I believe.

The "church" I am less sanguine about. But Jesus as the route to God seems attractive to me. Sorta like your first teen-age crush - you can't really explain it but it just feels right. But why impose that on others!?! Either they get it or they don't. If they don't get it, let them be at peace! I mean, really! The "gospel" should not be about us imposing our neediness on others. Most of the LR-type "gospel" I see is just that. People "need" recruits because their masters at HQ are thumping the drum - revenues are down, growth is flat - go out there and sell, sell, sell! So they go out and impose themselves on weak-willed souls.

The gospel should be a display of power - the same power that raised Jesus from the dead. It should be so obvious. If there's any curtain-pulling moment where the Great and Powerful Wizard of Oz is shown to be just a con man, well so be it (I think of WL's phone call to Sal Benoit - "It's MY business what I do with YOUR money!"). This includes Paul, Jesus, Peter, David, Moses. Everyone is on the dock. If Christianity is a sham, let's have it out on the table.

The gospel should also be a display of peace. Not speeches and rhetoric, but peace. Speech can be used, but speech can never displace peace. The gospel should be about love, patience, kindness etc. You know all the words. Get a Thesaurus. They are all there. Lastly it should be about joy. If I am unhappy because you're not a Christian, what kind of unbalanced, co-dependent 'happiness' am I seeking? Again, the majority of the Christian "gospel" I've been exposed to thus far lies in this vein: If you don't do what I want, then God won't be happy.

Oh, really!?! Get stuffed.

Jesus I'm still interested in. The rest, ...

[kappagamma]

Originally Posted by aron

Not speaking for kappagamma, but this was her thread, once.

I think this is a valid objection and should be taken on face value. If the Lord's Recovery (LR) teaches that ALL religion is bad, and an ex "Church Kid" realizes that there's nothing in the LR for them, then why not ditch religion altogether?

In my case, I am a Christian because I chose to believe in God (a universe with God somehow seemed 'warmer' than a universe without God [sorry]), and I thought the narrative figure of 'Jesus' still remains the most compelling story of human history. If it wasn't true, I wish it were. So I believe.

So. To be honest... there are a lot of posters in here that sound just like LC people. Same flavors. Just from a different store. It's ok. The dynamic experiences of a generation or two of people who CHOSE the LC were real to them and are valid and meaningful. Those (often) are not the experiences of "church kids" who choose to leave. Imagine being raised in that system without any of those dynamic experiences? How would you feel about Christianity? Being told your whole life this is reality and not seeing anything remotely real?

Also I will say that there's a lot of what sounds like victim blaming. If "church kids" leave I'd say that's the fault of the parents/CL society for not providing whatever it was that drew the first gen group to Jesus in the first place. If you aren't providing what drew you to your children you're feeding them something else. That's not the kids fault.
I regretted writing the bit about choosing a bible version because I figured it would result in a thread deviation. It's ironic because as a "church kid" I have a lot of bible knowledge, know a lot about different versions, and being quite a bit younger, know that I can find them all online. I am not putting down anyones responses though. The input is truly appreciated. Really, I'm not knocking it. I just meant that I was maybe willing to have one out on my bedside table and, since they cost a fair amount to have a nice one, I'm being picky about which new one I actually purchase. And, also being a "church kid" wouldn't you know I already own a few They just have lots of memories tied to them that I don't necessarily want sleeping next to me.

[Cal]

I know this is going to sound trite, but the problem isn't God or Jesus or the Bible or even "organization." The problem is people. People are all fallen, so any time you get involved with them there are going to be problems. (This includes any time you are involved only with yourself.)

And this includes people in no matter what venue. Just going to the grocery store can be a problem because you have to deal with people.

The trouble with people is that you can't live with them and you can't live without them. That's just the way it is. So the key is to get your relationship with the Main Person (God) in line, and then let him guide you in your interaction with people.

The whole problem with the LR is the defining parameters are all whacked. There is all this angst and worry about LEAVING the LR. ("Oh, horrors!") Of course you are going to have anxiety issues if you worry about things God doesn't worry about. (Strictly speaking, though God has concerns, he doesn't worry about anything.) Let me tell you, God is not much concerned about anyone leaving the LR. Okay? It's a false concern. Leave if you want to, stay if you want to, as God leads. People change churches all the time. It's not a big deal. And, usually parents want their kids to follow in their footsteps. That's normal and human. But there is no moral imperative there. It's your life. Who has the right to tell you where you should attend church? Like I said, it's a whacked LR parameter.

But realize you are never going to find the perfect set of peeps or relationships, spiritual or secular. People are fallen. Trust me, they have the same problem with you.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Igzy

I know this is going to sound trite, but the problem isn't God or Jesus or the Bible or even "organization." The problem is people. People are all fallen, so any time you get involved with them there are going to be problems. (This includes any time you are involved only with yourself.)

And this includes people in no matter what venue. Just going to the grocery store can be a problem because you have to deal with people.

The trouble with people is that you can't live with them and you can't live without them. That's just the way it is. So the key is to get your relationship with the Main Person (God) in line, and then let him guide you in your interaction with people.

The whole problem with the LR is the defining parameters are all whacked. There is all this angst and worry about LEAVING the LR. ("Oh, horrors!") Of course you are going to have anxiety issues if you worry about things God doesn't worry about. (Strictly speaking, though God has concerns, he doesn't worry about anything.) Let me tell you, God is not much concerned about anyone leaving the LR. Okay? It's a false concern. Leave if you want to, stay if you want to, as God leads. People change churches all the time. It's not a big deal. And, usually parents want their kids to follow in their footsteps. That's normal and human. But there is no moral imperative there. It's your life. Who has the right to tell you where you should attend church? Like I said, it's a whacked LR parameter.

But realize you are never going to find the perfect set of peeps or relationships, spiritual or secular. People are fallen. Trust me, they have the same problem with you.

Pretty good Igzy. The world would be a great place if there weren't people in it.

And we're all just human primates.

Accept it and make the best of it. I find making God my buddy makes it easier ... while making humans buddies makes it harder ... but more interesting ... less boring ... and there's love to be found there ... if you play it right, and are lucky.

So Lord, bless all us human idiots ... we certainly need it. Please don't leave us to our devices.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by awareness

Pretty good Igzy. The world would be a great place if there weren't people in it.

And we're all just human primates.

Well, I never said either things.

The world would not be better without us.

We are not human primates.

We are God's best creation, we bear his image. We are not primates. And the world would have no purpose without us.

Other than that, I agree with you.

[aron]

Originally Posted by kappagamma

The dynamic experiences of a generation or two of people who CHOSE the LC were real to them and are valid and meaningful. Those (often) are not the experiences of "church kids" who choose to leave. Imagine being raised in that system without any of those dynamic experiences? How would you feel about Christianity? Being told your whole life this is reality and not seeing anything remotely real?

Absolutely fantastic bit of writing. People need to consider perspectives like this. Really, if there is any gospel, any good news, it needs to factor in these kinds of witnesses. Otherwise it is just "preaching to the choir" and has very little power to reach beyond itself.

kappagamma thank you.

Originally Posted by kappagamma

Also I will say that there's a lot of what sounds like victim blaming. If "church kids" leave I'd say that's the fault of the parents/CL society for not providing whatever it was that drew the first gen group to Jesus in the first place. If you aren't providing what drew you to your children you're feeding them something else. That's not the kids fault.

This also is important to consider. It has come to mind a few times recently. I SAW it in the Lord's Recovery but I coudn't really PROCESS what I saw.

What I've been considering on these same lines: here was this generation ('60s and '70s) that came into the LR, and would always tell each other and their children stories about leaving the RCC or the Baptists or SDA or whatever, because that experience was so deficient. Now, here they are "on the local ground" and "just enjoying Christ" etc. Over and over you would hear this narrative theme.

But why deny your kids the same experience? Why deny them the same journey? You got to leave "vanity" and find "reality" and now you're stuffing your "vanity" down someone else's throat day after day! Why? It was all about your choice once, now it's all about denying your kids the same choice, the same option to find a path and follow it. Everything in the "pipeline" was designed to carefully, bit by bit, remove any vestige of choice.

Yet they couldn't see it. They were so convinced that they could manufacture some crisis point (carefully built up since they were in diapers) to get the progeny to "choose Christ" which meant "choose Christ and the Church" which meant "submit to the Ministry of the Age" etc etc. The whole thing a big manufactured sham.

And yet they couldn't see it. The whole time they thought they were serving God.

kg, thanks for your voice. It is needed out here.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by aron

kg, thanks for your voice. It is needed out here.

Hear! Hear! Amen to that!

[aron]

Originally Posted by aron

It was all about your choice once, now it's all about denying your kids the same choice, the same option to find a path and follow it. Everything in the "pipeline" was designed to carefully, bit by bit, remove any vestige of choice.

Yet they couldn't see it. They were so convinced that they could manufacture some crisis point (carefully built up since they were in diapers) to get the progeny to "choose Christ" which meant "choose Christ and the Church" which meant "submit to the Ministry of the Age" etc etc. The whole thing a big manufactured sham..

I raised some objections about the LC/LR awhile back and a defender of things LSM on this forum replied, "So what? The Baptists also do this". See above, and consider the similarities. I was raised in a Baptist Church and got the fire-and-brimstone pulpit thunder, and was given the "sawdust trail" to walk on, to come forward in a revival meeting and save my soul from eternal perdition. I was, what, 10 years old? Manipulating emotionally open young persons who lack critical faculties? Amen.

But my objection was, and remains, that at its best - its best - the LC/LR is no better than the Baptists. And at its worst it is much worse. No Baptist preacher that I know says that he has the Ministry of the age, that all churches must align under his teachings, some questionable, in an absolute fashion. "If you're not 100% under me get out". All churches must be "absolutely identical" with one another and "not having any individual distinctiveness" (Footnote 1, Revelation 1:20 RecV).

No, the Baptists just give the "low gospel", believe into Jesus and be saved. They don't offer all the "extras", sorry - "High Peaks", that the LC/LR does. I believe that's why so many leave the Christian faith once they leave the LC/LR. Even FTTA graduates, who can't separate God from the LSM. So they toss everything.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

I was raised in a Baptist Church and got the fire-and-brimstone pulpit thunder, and was given the "sawdust trail" to walk on, to come forward in a revival meeting and save my soul from eternal perdition. I was, what, 10 years old? Manipulating emotionally open young persons who lack critical faculties? Amen.

No, the Baptists just give the "low gospel", believe into Jesus and be saved. They don't offer all the "extras", sorry - "High Peaks", that the LC/LR does. I believe that's why so many leave the Christian faith once they leave the LC/LR. Even FTTA graduates, who can't separate God from the LSM. So they toss everything.

This poses for me a troubling theological question about a person's salvation. I have met a few folks who claimed to be genuinely born again as a youngster, believing in Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Then, decades later, they espouse no faith whatsoever. As an adult they reject the whole existence of God.

Evangelicals believe that once born again, one can never be snatched from His hand. Yet we are saved by faith. As Abraham was reckoned righteous by his faith in God. Without faith in the Savior's death, how can our debt for sin be paid?

How many others, like aron, were "manipulated" as youngsters to "come forward" and confess their sins and confess His name? Then which is it? Are we saved by faith, or by being born again? In a normal world, both exist together, but these are not normal times. Thoughts?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by aron

I raised some objections about the LC/LR awhile back and a defender of things LSM on this forum replied, "So what? The Baptists also do this". See above, and consider the similarities. I was raised in a Baptist Church and got the fire-and-brimstone pulpit thunder, and was given the "sawdust trail" to walk on, to come forward in a revival meeting and save my soul from eternal perdition. I was, what, 10 years old? Manipulating emotionally open young persons who lack critical faculties? Amen.

But my objection was, and remains, that at its best - its best - the LC/LR is no better than the Baptists. And at its worst it is much worse. No Baptist preacher that I know says that he has the Ministry of the age, that all churches must align under his teachings, some questionable, in an absolute fashion. "If you're not 100% under me get out". All churches must be "absolutely identical" with one another and "not having any individual distinctiveness" (Footnote 1, Revelation 1:20 RecV).

No, the Baptists just give the "low gospel", believe into Jesus and be saved. They don't offer all the "extras", sorry - "High Peaks", that the LC/LR does. I believe that's why so many leave the Christian faith once they leave the LC/LR. Even FTTA graduates, who can't separate God from the LSM. So they toss everything.

Maybe after the LC everything needs to be tossed for awhile.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by aron

"So subjective is my Christ in me..." yes so subjective. And who else would want your subjectivity as their de facto objective reality? No thanks!

Not speaking for kappagamma, but this was her thread, once.

I think this is a valid objection and should be taken on face value. If the Lord's Recovery (LR) teaches that ALL religion is bad, and an ex "Church Kid" realizes that there's nothing in the LR for them, then why not ditch religion altogether?

1. Nobody can prove God exists.
2. Nobody can prove that God raised Jesus from the dead.
3. Nobody can prove that the blood of Jesus does cleanse you from sin.
4. Nobody can prove that there is consciousness after death, which needs forgiveness to avoid suffering, torment etc.

I mean, if the whole thing ends up arguing over declensions and the meaning of the word "nature", then why not just chuck it all? I think that's a pretty good argument.

In my case, I am a Christian because I chose to believe in God (a universe with God somehow seemed 'warmer' than a universe without God [sorry]), and I thought the narrative figure of 'Jesus' still remains the most compelling story of human history. If it wasn't true, I wish it were. So I believe.

It's true that God cannot be proven to exist objectively. He's spirit and invisible, but His qualities can be seen in creation. The LC's however solely rely on subjectivity. This is dangerous in that it allows any feeling, spiritual experience, or epiphany to be defined as being from God as the individual sees fit when in reality that isn't always the case.

God's truth is neither objective nor subjective, it's self-evident and absolute. God is only provable on an individual level but His revelation to us is always the same. Outwardly, you may not have a Saul to Damascus experience but inwardly the same savior and Son is revealed and imprinted on our hearts. The LC's, being cut off from the Lord because of spiritual pride, learned and used mysticism by their own will to pierce the spiritual veil. By this, another Jesus came through; a mysterious, gnostic, and subjective Christ and not the approachable, humble, meek, and lowly Jesus that preached to the poor, fed the hungry, and healed the lepers. If you desire to be a spiritual giant and have a ministry with unique "revelation" that no one else possesses, this is what will come about. You'll be given an exclusive and esoteric Christ, which is no Christ at all.

I remember having a conversation with Evangelical about whether belief alone is enough for an individual's salvation. His argument was that even demons believe in Jesus so it's not enough. The mistake he made, however, was equating the belief of demons that causes fear and trembling to the type of belief that is available to us which is the belief that's an entrusting. This is the type of belief that leads to salvation. Not only do you have to believe that the bible is true you have to trust what is written in it. It's a deep conviction within the heart.

The LC's have cultivated such an atmosphere of mistrust, especially with the current climate that LSM vs GLA creates, it's a miracle that anyone can leave with the ability to trust intact. I believe this is the case for many that have left the LC's and I have no doubt this experience taints and hinders their faith in God. Yet God takes the brunt of our misplaced faith.

There are men and ministries out there that are in right standing with God and can lead you to the Jesus of scripture. I do want to say to kappagamma and those that left the LC, that even if you have totally lost trust in men and ministries altogether you can approach God directly through the mediator himself, Jesus Christ. Don't give up on him!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by aron

If I was an unbeliever reading some of these posts I'd probably say, "I'm so glad I'm not a Christian!" Who wants to end up arguing over textual variants! Not that these posters are, but much of Christian discussion is about fluff. Vague, unprovable concepts, small data sets, ignorance and bias. I can still hear Witness Lee saying, "This means that" and, "This shows us that" and, "We must see that"... Assumption piled onto assumption.

"So subjective is my Christ in me..." yes so subjective. And who else would want your subjectivity as their de facto objective reality? No thanks!

Not speaking for kappagamma, but this was her thread, once.

I think this is a valid objection and should be taken on face value. If the Lord's Recovery (LR) teaches that ALL religion is bad, and an ex "Church Kid" realizes that there's nothing in the LR for them, then why not ditch religion altogether?

1. Nobody can prove God exists.
2. Nobody can prove that God raised Jesus from the dead.
3. Nobody can prove that the blood of Jesus does cleanse you from sin.
4. Nobody can prove that there is consciousness after death, which needs forgiveness to avoid suffering, torment etc.

I mean, if the whole thing ends up arguing over declensions and the meaning of the word "nature", then why not just chuck it all? I think that's a pretty good argument.

In my case, I am a Christian because I chose to believe in God (a universe with God somehow seemed 'warmer' than a universe without God [sorry]), and I thought the narrative figure of 'Jesus' still remains the most compelling story of human history. If it wasn't true, I wish it were. So I believe.

The "church" I am less sanguine about. But Jesus as the route to God seems attractive to me. Sorta like your first teen-age crush - you can't really explain it but it just feels right. But why impose that on others!?! Either they get it or they don't. If they don't get it, let them be at peace! I mean, really! The "gospel" should not be about us imposing our neediness on others. Most of the LR-type "gospel" I see is just that. People "need" recruits because their masters at HQ are thumping the drum - revenues are down, growth is flat - go out there and sell, sell, sell! So they go out and impose themselves on weak-willed souls.

The gospel should be a display of power - the same power that raised Jesus from the dead. It should be so obvious. If there's any curtain-pulling moment where the Great and Powerful Wizard of Oz is shown to be just a con man, well so be it (I think of WL's phone call to Sal Benoit - "It's MY business what I do with YOUR money!"). This includes Paul, Jesus, Peter, David, Moses. Everyone is on the dock. If Christianity is a sham, let's have it out on the table.

The gospel should also be a display of peace. Not speeches and rhetoric, but peace. Speech can be used, but speech can never displace peace. The gospel should be about love, patience, kindness etc. You know all the words. Get a Thesaurus. They are all there. Lastly it should be about joy. If I am unhappy because you're not a Christian, what kind of unbalanced, co-dependent 'happiness' am I seeking? Again, the majority of the Christian "gospel" I've been exposed to thus far lies in this vein: If you don't do what I want, then God won't be happy.

Oh, really!?! Get stuffed.

Jesus I'm still interested in. The rest, ...

I love your gospel Aron. I have to share that after the LC I went thru all that you expressed about not wanting to be a Christian ; all the lack of evidence.

At one point, even, I was going around calling God deaf dumb and mute, because I was doing all the talking, while nothing from Him.

But at one point God came to me. Then I realized that it's not up to me. Which is good. Cuz if it depends on me I'm not going to make it.

[aron]

Originally Posted by awareness

I love your gospel Aron. I have to share that after the LC I went thru all that you expressed about not wanting to be a Christian ; all the lack of evidence.

At one point, even, I was going around calling God deaf dumb and mute, because I was doing all the talking, while nothing from Him.

But at one point God came to me. Then I realized that it's not up to me. Which is good. Cuz if it depends on me I'm not going to make it.

I agree. God is, shall we say, a persistent fantasy.

Any system that oppresses people and robs them of their freedom, dignity, and self-worth should be called out. Systems that manipulate weak and emotionally vulnerable children should be called out. Systems that build themselves by denigrating others should be called out.

This post, like an internet forum, doesn't of itself constitute "love" or "peace" or "the gospel" in any meaningful sense. But it can be used to expose manipulative thought-control systems that prey on people and defraud them, and leave them battered and bewildered, not only without identity but so disoriented as to be without means of finding any.

[Weighingin]

Originally Posted by awareness

I love your gospel Aron. I have to share that after the LC I went thru all that you expressed about not wanting to be a Christian ; all the lack of evidence.

At one point, even, I was going around calling God deaf dumb and mute, because I was doing all the talking, while nothing from Him.

But at one point God came to me. Then I realized that it's not up to me. Which is good. Cuz if it depends on me I'm not going to make it.

"God came to me" was encouraging to me. At this time I'm wondering who God is, how does Christ fit in, etc? It is similiar to how I was before I came to the Lc in the earlier 70s. I would think I'm in my mind, I'm not exercising my spirit, I don't pray enough, I didn't have morning watch. But Christ became objective and not real to me much of the time. We only want your Christ, brother.
But now that I realize the LSM is not the unique way to the fullness of God in Christ, I'm not certain what to do except the basic Christian practices and beware of any killing or discouraging teachings.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Weighingin

"God came to me" was encouraging to me. At this time I'm wondering who God is, how does Christ fit in, etc? It is similiar to how I was before I came to the Lc in the earlier 70s. I would think I'm in my mind, I'm not exercising my spirit, I don't pray enough, I didn't have morning watch. But Christ became objective and not real to me much of the time. We only want your Christ, brother.
But now that I realize the LSM is not the unique way to the fullness of God in Christ, I'm not certain what to do except the basic Christian practices and beware of any killing or discouraging teachings.

Brother Weightingin, I remember it well. I had picked up a book at a local book store : Conversations with God, by Neale Donald Walsch.

I was sitting in the shade under a tree in my front yard in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. It was peaceful. I was only in the first chapter when it happened. I felt that God came to me.

Then, that God was deaf dumb and mute to me vanished. God doesn't speak to us with words, like having a conversation with Him. He speaks to us inwardly. And following that inward leading has led me to all kinds of what you might consider "killing or discouraging teachings."

I'm not sure why, but I've concluded that He wants to pull the rug out from under anything that I have faith in other than Himself.