What is The Word?

[awareness]

This thread is to determine just what "the word" means. I'm hoping someone(s) can give is a clear definition and meaning.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

This thread is to determine just what "the word" means. I'm hoping someone(s) can give is a clear definition and meaning.

The simplest and most general definition is that the word of God reveals the mind of God.

The Bible as the written word of God would be the covenant between God and man involving a number of promises God makes to man in exchange for man obeying God.

Obviously the word of God that reveals God's mind could be to many peoples in various times and places regardless of His covenant. Not ruling out God speaking to everyone and anyone in a multitude of ways. However, the Bible says that we need confirmation that it is in fact God speaking and that He does that with signs (think Moses speaking to Pharaoh), wonders (think donkey talking to Balaam), prophecies, etc.

However, the best sign is the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead which is why Hebrews says that God now speaks to us in the Son.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

This thread is to determine just what "the word" means. I'm hoping someone(s) can give is a clear definition and meaning.

No clear definition or meaning could ever pass your needs for scientific proof. First we would have to prove what a word is, then we would have to prove God.

[Weighingin]

It seems to me that this would take some research and study. For ex:
In the OT, you would begin by translating the phrase the word of God from its original language, with its nuances. For comparison, all the instances where it's used should be studied also.
Then also do the same with the New Testament.

Today, when someone gives a word, this seems to me to be someone speaking with someone else to give them a word for their benefit, encouragement, counseling, etc

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Weighingin

It seems to me that this would take some research and study. For ex:
In the OT, you would begin by translating the phrase the word of God from its original language, with its nuances. For comparison, all the instances where it's used should be studied also.
Then also do the same with the New Testament.

Today, when someone gives a word, this seems to me to be someone speaking with someone else to give them a word for their benefit, encouragement, counseling, etc

Good points Weighing. Matthew, quoting Deut. 8:3 has Jesus saying to the devil in the desert, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."*

It's interesting that that word was not OT or NT word, but mouth of God word.

[awareness]

Okay I guess we're all such seasoned Bible based Christians enough to know the our translations translate several different Greek words as "word," or "the word."

But I think what is referred to as the word is commonly thought of as the written word, or Logos.

But that is not what the written word says, at least not what the author of the gospel we call John says. John doesn't say the logos is the written word. John says the logos became flesh, and walked among us. That's not the written word.

I've already pointed out that it was Heraclitus that coined the word logos, some 600 yrs before John utilized it. To Heraclitus the logos was the creative and sustaining force of the cosmos. John was obviously using the word because it was in common currency back then, by the Greeks, and so was commonly understood.

But John applied it to Jesus. John also considered the logos as the creative and sustaining force of the cosmos, but it was Jesus from the beginning.

But the logos became flesh. So what happened to the logos after the flesh was gone? Did it go back to being the creative and sustaining force of the cosmos?

[Trapped]

I can see logos being the creating and sustaining force of the cosmos.....after all God spoke it all into being. The word was there right from the beginning.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Okay I guess we're all such seasoned Bible based Christians enough to know the our translations translate several different Greek words as "word," or "the word."

But I think what is referred to as the word is commonly thought of as the written word, or Logos.

But that is not what the written word says, at least not what the author of the gospel we call John says. John doesn't say the logos is the written word. John says the logos became flesh, and walked among us. That's not the written word.

I've already pointed out that it was Heraclitus that coined the word logos, some 600 yrs before John utilized it. To Heraclitus the logos was the creative and sustaining force of the cosmos. John was obviously using the word because it was in common currency back then, by the Greeks, and so was commonly understood.

But John applied it to Jesus. John also considered the logos as the creative and sustaining force of the cosmos, but it was Jesus from the beginning.

But the logos became flesh. So what happened to the logos after the flesh was gone? Did it go back to being the creative and sustaining force of the cosmos?

The definition of "word" is a single distinct meaningful element.

All matter is made up of single distinct meaningful elements known as atoms. Likewise, all flesh is made up of single distinct meaningful elements known as DNA.

[Cal]

The Word means God's conscious opinion of himself, so it is what he has to say about himself.

What he has to say about himself is himself. That's why the Word, the Son, is God as the Father is.

God unseen is the Father. God seen (even to himself) is the Son. That's how the Word can be with God and be God.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Trapped

I can see logos being the creating and sustaining force of the cosmos.....after all God spoke it all into being. The word was there right from the beginning.

This is admirably well done. There's a lot I could add, but I'm not sure how much it would improve it.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Trapped

I can see logos being the creating and sustaining force of the cosmos.....after all God spoke it all into being. The word was there right from the beginning.

And just like the pagan priest King of Salem, Melchizedek, God also reveal to the pagan pre-Socratic Greek philosopher Heraclitus, of Ephesus, what he coined as The Logos, so John could use it. As they say, God works in mysterious ways. Turns out the logos has always been available ... from before Adam, up to today ... by God knows who.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

And just like the pagan priest King of Salem, Melchizedek, God also reveal to the pagan pre-Socratic Greek philosopher Heraclitus, of Ephesus, what he coined as The Logos, so John could use it. As they say, God works in mysterious ways. Turns out the logos has always been available ... from before Adam, up to today ... by God knows who.

Why do you call Melchizadek a pagan priest?

Since he is a strong type of Christ, our high priest, your statement is offensive.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by awareness

Turns out the logos has always been available ... from before Adam, up to today ... by God knows who.

C.S. Lewis called it the "Tao," the thread that links all beliefs. Some say this shows the validity of all those beliefs. But he asserted that such a thread shows there is likely some essential source, some basic Truth, which informs all beliefs, yet remains distinct and above them. That truth is the WORD. He has spoken since the beginning, and it speaks to all of us now. He says: I am. I am love. Love one another. Listen to me. Follow me. Do not give in to the fear that makes you selfish. Don't hurt each other. He says: The Word is coming. The Word came. Did you recognize him? He was here. Now he is all around you. He can be in you, and he will return.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Why do you call Melchizadek a pagan priest?

Since he is a strong type of Christ, our high priest, your statement is offensive.

Yeah, he wasn't a pagan priest. Where do you get that? The Bible says he was "priest of the most high God." Heb 7:1

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Igzy

C.S. Lewis called it the "Tao,"

Good catch Igzy. Yes, in his book Abolition of Man.

That's why in the Chinese translation of the gospel of John Logos is translated as "Tao."

I'm a big fan of The Tao Te Ching, and I can see why the Chinese would understand the logos as the Tao.

[awareness]

Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

It's not just a Lee thing, Brethren thing, Christian thing, Jewish thing, or Muslim thing. Exclusive tribalism as far as we can tell goes back into the stone age.

But Christians do use John 14:6 to espouse the exclusivity of Jesus being the only way to the Father. That's just more exclusivity, that's been going on since before the invention of writing.

So how did Melchizedek, Abraham, and all the OT players reach the Father?

Well it had to be thru The Logos. It's the only way to the Father. Heraclitus prolly got there thru it.