The Gospel Versus "God's Economy"

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Drake

Okay, Trapped.

Who are you trying to convince? Forum participants who need no convincing or yourself?

My advice is that you move on.... to a place you can give the rest of your life in service to God.

Drake

Drake,

I'm wrestling with which one of two possible ways to respond to you, so I'll just say both.

1. Do you have any substantive contribution to what I posted? Or is this just a drive by shooting?

2. Father, forgive Drake, for he knows not what he is doing.

Much grace to you,

Trapped

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Do you have any substantive contribution to what I posted?

I do.

Do you really want to hear it?

Drake

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Drake

I do.

Do you really want to hear it?

Drake

Drake,

I am not into one-uppsmanship. I am not into peacock feather flapping to see who can seem the biggest or "do you want to hear it, be careful what you ask for, here it comes, watch out" type interactions. It's petty. This is a public forum. You don't need to ask permission to post anything. Post if you want, or don't. I will sleep fine either way.

If you do sit down to post, I'm also interested to hear what you have to say in response to my last post to you in the One Publication thread. As I've told you, interacting with differing points of view is what makes this interesting and makes me think, so I'm always all ears.

Trapped

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Drake,

I am not into one-uppsmanship. I am not into peacock feather flapping to see who can seem the biggest or "do you want to hear it, be careful what you ask for, here it comes, watch out" type interactions. It's petty. This is a public forum. You don't need to ask permission to post anything. Post if you want, or don't. I will sleep fine either way.

If you do sit down to post, I'm also interested to hear what you have to say in response to my last post to you in the One Publication thread. As I've told you, interacting with differing points of view is what makes this interesting and makes me think, so I'm always all ears.

Trapped

Trapped

You’re overreacting... misunderstanding and reading things into my statements that aren’t there. Picking apart a paragraph word by word to search places to disagree with a servant of Gods point if view. Finding fault with a simple song that the author no doubt was inspired to put to paper.

If you don’t like a song then sing something else and share your enjoyment and appreciation of the Lord in it... Disagree with a teaching then offer an alternative explanation...something edifying.

Now the reason I asked you if you want to hear my point of view on that topic was not to gain upmanship.. on the contrary .... the reason I asked is because I don’t care for the game of upmanship ... and based on your last response it did not seem you were seeking anything other than to op-Ed.

But look, I’ll provide a response to your recent string of posts under the assumption that you actually might be interested in hearing from someone other than the choir and are all ears.

As to the other note... I will revisit it as you request.

Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Drake, I am not into one-uppsmanship. I am not into peacock feather flapping to see who can seem the biggest or "do you want to hear it, be careful what you ask for, here it comes, watch out" type interactions.

Originally Posted by Drake

Trapped, You’re overreacting... misunderstanding and reading things into my statements that aren’t there.

Trapped, trust your heart here.

In order to defend LSM, Drake has learned to play the same game as they, always putting blame on others.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Drake

Trapped

You’re overreacting... misunderstanding and reading things into my statements that aren’t there. Picking apart a paragraph word by word to search places to disagree with a servant of Gods point if view. Finding fault with a simple song that the author no doubt was inspired to put to paper.

If you don’t like a song then sing something else and share your enjoyment and appreciation of the Lord in it... Disagree with a teaching then offer an alternative explanation...something edifying.

Now the reason I asked you if you want to hear my point of view on that topic was not to gain upmanship.. on the contrary .... the reason I asked is because I don’t care for the game of upmanship ... and based on your last response it did not seem you were seeking anything other than to op-Ed.

But look, I’ll provide a response to your recent string of posts under the assumption that you actually might be interested in hearing from someone other than the choir and are all ears.

As to the other note... I will revisit it as you request.

Drake

Drake,

You are telling someone who is on a forum set up for the purpose of discussing local church related things not to discuss local church related things. It's kind of dumb.

Just because someone was inspired to write something doesn't make it true or accurate.

If a servant of God's writings are wrong, it needs to be said. There is nothing that is more worth getting right.

If a teaching is clearly erroneous, it is erroneous and that is sufficient for me to point out. I'm not claiming to know the whole full meaning. I can see something is erroneous without the onus being on me to provide the alternative explanation; I'm not a Bible expositor by training. Maybe I'll figure out an alternative explanation down the road, but right now, what I've figured out is Lee wasn't accurate. That's new for me, and I'm in the middle of figuring out how widespread it is. Actually, the alternative explanation was right there - it's the stuff all in green, not mixed with the wrong stuff in red.

I will say this. The function of salt is both to preserve and to bring out flavor. It is to preserve what is good and to bring out what is good. That is our function as the salt of the earth. We do not "have a restorative effect" or "bring the earth back to it's original condition". It's simply not true, and don't fault me for seeing that, or tell me to run along and go do something else. I actually didn't go after the excerpt with the intention to pick it apart; I went to see what he had to say on the matter. I would have loved if it was all true. But as I read it, Lee's going out of the bounds of the meaning of Jesus's words were too much to ignore, and he did it in a place where it was totally unnecessary to do so. If he can't cut it straight on the small stuff, how much more diligence do we need to put forth when analyzing and taking in the really important stuff?

And this is the guy who says everyone else but him is void of light. Dude can't even get salt right.

From being in a place where the teachings have torn me down (and not with the Lord as the source of the proper tearing down), the edifying thing actually is to realize and point out what is wrong. I experience building up by tearing down the things that have improperly torn me down.

If you have been taught a certain way your entire life, told you couldn't question it, and then found out that it's not all correct, you would spend some time and be interested in the nature and pervasiveness of the error. What you can trust, and what you can no longer trust. If you had been taught your whole life that your heart functioned like a whirring water turbine that moved your blood along in that fashion, and that you can't run too fast because the force of the turbine might blow a blood vessel, AND THEN found out decades later that that's not accurate - your heart actually functions as a pump and you can run as fast as you want and a blood vessel won't blow and that you lost out on years of running fast even though you loved to do it but were denied it for years, you're gonna sit down and figure out what happened, why you believed the wrong thing, tell people about what you discovered, take things in with a more critical filter, and try to understand the mechanics of the truth. Oh yeah, and you're gonna run a bunch too.

Don't vomit on my realizations. I'm happy to discuss objective things with you, Drake, but don't get into belittling where I'm at.

You don't have to assume that I'm interested in hearing something from someone with a differing point of view; I've already told you I am. But don't snark that people are drive-by-shooting a third party when you then turn around and drive-by-shoot someone directly.

I say all that under this umbrella: I am genuinely glad you are here.

In the spirit of respect,

Trapped

[aron]

Originally Posted by Trapped

From being in a place where the teachings have torn me down (and not with the Lord as the source of the proper tearing down), the edifying thing actually is to realize and point out what is wrong. I experience building up by tearing down the things that have improperly torn me down.

Amen to this. How many thousands of messages have been received without question? There's a lot to examine, and a lot of potential examiners. The LSM made their bed, now they have to sleep in it.

Of course, that goes for any minister of God's word. But never moreso than here.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

Amen to this. How many thousands of messages have been received without question? There's a lot to examine, and a lot of potential examiners.

And not just the messages, but also the practices.

Think about how many former members actually are convinced they can no longer "touch the Lord" because they no longer shout ministry slogans and fist-pump to resounding "amens?"

[aron]

Originally Posted by Drake

I do.

Do you really want to hear it?

Drake

When reading such non-answers, one's left with the impression that Drake is stalling, buying time 'till the DCP committee can convene and come up with something plausible. I mean, the other poster already asked once; why make them ask twice?

I found similar non-replies when I tried to address the substance of Psalms footnotes: why was the psalmist's imprecation a type of Christ in one place, and natural concept in another? Eventually, all I got was, "Maybe this is so."

Maybe it's so, and maybe it's not so. If you're asking people to give up their lives and take your way, you should at least address their questions on their face, and not pretend to breezily wave them off, when in fact you have no answer.

"You are misunderstanding. . ." maybe not. . .maybe the other person is gaining understanding. . .Quick! Convene the DCP! The LSM is taking on water! Man the bilge pumps!

Sorry if the last bit seems mean-spirited, but I find it humorous: the sight of a ministry adamantly opposed to give-and-take being put in such a position.

But of course, Drake maybe only speaks for himself, and so my amusement may be self-created. . . pardon my mirth.

(But I'd bet that after that message, they all lined up at the microphone to exclaim that they'd never understood the restorative power of salt until then.)