How to rescue those still in LCs in Korea?

[aron]

Originally Posted by Gubei

My "strategy" to rescue some, which I am not sure is my new burden from the Lord, is translating good English materials into Korean for free distribution to them.

Can you pop up any good stuff for me to translate? It's impossible to translate this forum from A to Z. So, I need brief but powerful ones.

I would start with the testimony of Witness Lee's closest co-worker, who translated his hymnal into English. His name is John Ingalls and his writing is under the "history" section on this forum of writings of former leading ones.

It is called "Speaking the Truth In Love". I would translate the whole thing, and then excerpt what is relevant. If you see the behaviour of Witness Lee and his family it's not much different than from David Yonggi Cho in Korea. Nepotism, cover-up, money-laundering, ejection of those who tried to expose unrighteousness.

Also "History of the Local Church" by Don Rutledge. He was one of the early American converts, who saw DayStar first-hand, what it caused. He corroborates with Ingalls about what happened.

And another brother named Steve Isitt has done a lot of research on the history of the group. See attached links.

Originally Posted by Indiana

Here you are DistantStar.

Watchman Nee
http://www.lordsrecovery.us/Timeline...hmanNeeEra.pdf

Witness Lee
http://www.lordsrecovery.us/Timeline...ssLeeEraUS.pdf

[Gubei]

Originally Posted by aron

I would start with the testimony of Witness Lee's closest co-worker, who translated his hymnal into English. His name is John Ingalls and his writing is under the "history" section on this forum of writings of former leading ones.

It is called "Speaking the Truth In Love". I would translate the whole thing, and then excerpt what is relevant. If you see the behaviour of Witness Lee and his family it's not much different than from David Yonggi Cho in Korea. Nepotism, cover-up, money-laundering, ejection of those who tried to expose unrighteousness.

Also "History of the Local Church" by Don Rutledge. He was one of the early American converts, who saw DayStar first-hand, what it caused. He corroborates with Ingalls about what happened.

And another brother named Steve Isitt has done a lot of research on the history of the group. See attached links.

Thanks a lot, Aron!

BTW you must be very good at what's happening in my country. Interestingly, I'm an ex-member of the pentecostal church by David Yonggi Cho, that's when I was an elementary schooler though. I remember David Yonggi Cho's early ministry was quite sound but as his church got bigger, problems crept in, especially his son's too secular engagement in a business and his marriage to a famous actress were shocking enough to me at that time.

[Gubei]

A brief history of the LCs in Korea and how it still affects the church life there

I’m not sure how this brief introduction of the history of the LCs in South Korea will help you understand the entanglements of the LCs’ leadership chaos there, but at least you (naturally I assume most of posters here are not Korean and do not know the thus far details) can have a glimpse of what’s going on there. Of course, I'm not omniscient, but the following is from very reliable sources.

1. The grounding work was not so sound (from the viewpoint of the LCers)

Mr. Kwon (also called Mr. Wang) was a Korean, but he joined Chinese Army during Japanese Ruling Period (c. 1940s~50s). He ended up in Taiwan and found the LC led by Witness Lee. After spending some period of time there, he came back to South Korea without fellowship with Witness Lee. He started his own meeting at Daejeon, a mid sized city located in the center of South Korea. Attendees were getting on the rise, and he gained Mr. Y, later to be the leader of LCs in Korea. Obviously Mr. Kwon used Witness Lee’s messages but did not reveal the fact he was not the author but those were from Witness Lee.

2. Globalization and LSM’s ministry making inroads into South Korea.

The more South Korea was open to the international society, especially the US, the more contacts with LSM-linked LCs in the US conducted by some Korean brothers. But still Mr. Kown (also called Mr. Wang) was alive and very reluctant to see saints read LSM materials. I’ve heard some leading brothers had to read the materials privately, unnoticed not to be reprimanded by Mr. Kwon.

3. Leadership power struggle

Mr. Kwon passed away.
Mr. S, a retired military officer, was enthusiastic in contacting LSM and claimed the LCs in South Korean would have to openly communicate with LSM. Mr. Y –followers and Mr. S-followers in rivalry for some time period, ended up both camps deciding to follow LSM’s direction. But under the surface, there have been rivalry going on between coworkers and leading brothers, while some left the LCs openly criticizing Witness Lee for some reason.

4. Andrew Yu’s audacious, but seeming not so biblical appointment of coworkers and elders

Very long time, Andrew Yu had visited South Korea and gave a lot of messages with practical leading. He finally appointed nationwide coworkers and elders in the Church in Seoul, most important city in South korea, on condition that the existing 11 or so co-workers (including Mr. S and Mr. Y) have to retire. But that was a kind of hasty action without proper verification period. Andrew Yu seems to had just accepted those candidates offered by Mr. S and Mr. Y. The saints felt there are spiritual imbalance among the appointees, and some mature church leaders were not appointed, and a possible explanation is that they are not so strongly attached with Mr. S or Y.

5. The retired coworkers came back with more chaos

After 3 years or so, the retired 11 or so coworkers came back to leadership position saying that they want to contribute more. Due to seniority culture, newly appointed ones would not have rejected this coming back. I’ve heard there are obvious “hierarchy” now among leading brothers.

6. Ever-decreasing church attendees

Since then, attendees are decreasing.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Gubei

Andrew Yu’s audacious, but seeming not so biblical appointment of coworkers and elders

Very long time, Andrew Yu had visited South Korea and gave a lot of messages with practical leading. He finally appointed nationwide coworkers and elders in the Church in Seoul, most important city in South korea, on condition that the existing 11 or so co-workers (including Mr. S and Mr. Y) have to retire. But that was a kind of hasty action without proper verification period. Andrew Yu seems to had just accepted those candidates offered by Mr. S and Mr. Y. The saints felt there are spiritual imbalance among the appointees, and some mature church leaders were not appointed, and a possible explanation is that they are not so strongly attached with Mr. S or Y.

This is absolutely incredible! How audacious! Of course Andrew Yu's appointment of elders in Seoul was not biblical! "Spiritual imbalance" indeed, more like a gross violation of the truth in order to bring that church under bondage and subjection to false human authority. LSM's works of the flesh are now on full display. This same kind of lust for power and control damaged all the Midwest LC's a decade ago.

Look at the disruption it has caused in the church. What authority from above does Yu possess? Is not the church in Seoul the church of God? Is it not the church of the saints? Since when has it become the church of some foreign ministry? Is Andrew Yu the apostle who preached the gospel and established that church? Of course not. Yu behaved as the Judaizers of old. I heard he has cancer, so perhaps the Lord was not pleased with his actions.

Did not one hundred years ago Watchman Nee proclaim independence from foreign denominations? Did he not assert that the church and her administration is local? What Andrew Yu has done is what started the "Recovery" in China in the first place. Nee rejected all foreign church authorities, yet Seoul has now accepted them? The church in Seoul needs a visit from Watchman Nee today! LSM's lust for power has blinded them from violating their own original mission statement -- their very reason for existence!

[least]

Ohio is correct.
Andrew Yu who?
His "seeming not so biblical appointment of coworkers and elders"
"He finally appointed nationwide coworkers and elders in the Church in Seoul, most important city in South korea, on condition that the existing 11 or so co-workers (including Mr. S and Mr. Y) have to retire."

Jesus did not appoint anyone on condition that someone else has to retire.
Neither did the Holy Spirit.

Is anything Andrew Yu ever biblical?
LSM defenders please inform.

[Gubei]

Originally Posted by least

Ohio is correct.
Andrew Yu who?
His "seeming not so biblical appointment of coworkers and elders"
"He finally appointed nationwide coworkers and elders in the Church in Seoul, most important city in South korea, on condition that the existing 11 or so co-workers (including Mr. S and Mr. Y) have to retire."

Jesus did not appoint anyone on condition that someone else has to retire.
Neither did the Holy Spirit.

Is anything Andrew Yu ever biblical?
LSM defenders please inform.

Thanks least. I believe this is high time for our Lord to something for Korean saints in the LCs. From my point of view, they have been so exploited very long time.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Gubei

I believe this is high time for our Lord to something for Korean saints in the LCs. From my point of view, they have been so exploited very long time.

This story of Andrew Yu manipulating Korean elders hadn't been posted here, so it's "news" in a sense, but it also matches behaviour from LSM to act in their own self-interest; it's predictable, a "re-run", as one poster recently put it. Just as the story helps clarify the pattern of LSM's handling its constituent assemblies, so also the American testimonies can help those in Asia also understand the forces at work. The stories of Steve Isitt, John Ingalls and Don Rutledge will open their eyes. And I noted David Yonggi Cho earlier, as resemblances between Cho and Lee are neither coincidental nor superficial: it's important to see that this so-called ministry and its captive flock aren't an alternative to "deformed and degraded Christianity" but rather its exemplars. Nepotism, cronyism, money-laundering, corruption, scandal, cover-up - it's all there, in multiple corroborating accounts.

[Gubei]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This is absolutely incredible! How audacious! Of course Andrew Yu's appointment of elders in Seoul was not biblical! "Spiritual imbalance" indeed, more like a gross violation of the truth in order to bring that church under bondage and subjection to false human authority. LSM's works of the flesh are now on full display. This same kind of lust for power and control damaged all the Midwest LC's a decade ago.

Look at the disruption it has caused in the church. What authority from above does Yu possess? Is not the church in Seoul the church of God? Is it not the church of the saints? Since when has it become the church of some foreign ministry? Is Andrew Yu the apostle who preached the gospel and established that church? Of course not. Yu behaved as the Judaizers of old. I heard he has cancer, so perhaps the Lord was not pleased with his actions.

Did not one hundred years ago Watchman Nee proclaim independence from foreign denominations? Did he not assert that the church and her administration is local? What Andrew Yu has done is what started the "Recovery" in China in the first place. Nee rejected all foreign church authorities, yet Seoul has now accepted them? The church in Seoul needs a visit from Watchman Nee today! LSM's lust for power has blinded them from violating their own original mission statement -- their very reason for existence!

If Andrew Yu really had wanted to behave like early church era "apostles", he would have exerted all the efforts to contact the "saints" in Seoul and verified who are spiritually mature to the point that he could appoint them as elders.

However, his contact points in Seoul only include a few coworkers with biased opinions and inclination for power, meaning they are "culprits" for this disaster.

Even if Andrew Yu really had contacted the "saints" in Seoul, that would have been a huge challenge in reality because of language barrier.

Anyway, this is quite interesting point to see how Andrew Yu dealt with leadership issue in South Korea. He asked for the then vested coworkers to retire, but he accepted their candidates, which naturally caused those soon-to-retire coworkers to offer the candidates who were "spiritually" stringed to them, leading to a kind of "regency system".

I've heard Andrew Yu cannot visit Seoul any longer due to his physical illness, it is said he has some vocal problem now. Instead, Ron Kangus used to visit Seoul, but I've heard the coworkers in the US don't want to come to Korea for some reason.

The vested coworkers' choice now is to invite Taiwanese brothers (Br. Wu and Br Lim).

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Gubei

If Andrew Yu really had wanted to behave like early church era "apostles", he would have exerted all the efforts to contact the "saints" in Seoul and verified who are spiritually mature to the point that he could appoint them as elders.

However, his contact points in Seoul only include a few coworkers with biased opinions and inclination for power, meaning they are "culprits" for this disaster.

Even if Andrew Yu really had contacted the "saints" in Seoul, that would have been a huge challenge in reality because of language barrier.

Anyway, this is quite interesting point to see how Andrew Yu dealt with leadership issue in South Korea. He asked for the then vested coworkers to retire, but he accepted their candidates, which naturally caused those soon-to-retire coworkers to offer the candidates who were "spiritually" stringed to them, leading to a kind of "regency system".

I've heard Andrew Yu cannot visit Seoul any longer due to his physical illness, it is said he has some vocal problem now. Instead, Ron Kangus used to visit Seoul, but I've heard the coworkers in the US don't want to come to Korea for some reason.

The vested coworkers' choice now is to invite Taiwanese brothers (Br. Wu and Br Lim).

There is no "right way" or Biblical way for any one like AY or RK from LSM, a USA book publisher, to properly appoint elders in Seoul, SoKo. There is no Biblical support for this.

The Bible presents many qualifications for church elders. Paul's books to Timothy and Titus mention some. Both the Spirit (Acts 20.28; I Cor 12.28) of God (through prayer and fellowship) and the mature saints (Acts 16.2) should approve of new elders. It is far better for the church to have new elders recommended by existing elders.

[Gubei]

Originally Posted by Ohio

There is no "right way" or Biblical way for any one like AY or RK from LSM, a USA book publisher, to properly appoint elders in Seoul, SoKo. There is no Biblical support for this.

The Bible presents many qualifications for church elders. Paul's books to Timothy and Titus mention some. Both the Spirit (Acts 20.28; I Cor 12.28) of God (through prayer and fellowship) and the mature saints (Acts 16.2) should approve of new elders. It is far better for the church to have new elders recommended by existing elders.

I agree with you, Ohio.

I was writing how it was ridiculously developed in appointing coworkers and elders in Seoul even from the viewpoint of those who accept "only apostle appointing elders principle"

Obviously, Andrew Yu had not done a lot of "foundational work" in South Korea like the early church era apostles did in the middle east and Asia Minor, but he "nominated" some brothers into leadership position without proper verification process at his own based on long-term monitoring/discussion procedures, of course without any so called reference check from "lay persons" in South Korea.

I labelled this as "disaster" in my previous post in this thread, but second thought gives me the idea this could be a blessing in disguise. The saints in South Korea would be quite suspicious that there is something wrong.

[least]

Came Andrew Yu.
Came Ron Kangas.
Came US workers.
Came Wu.
Came Lin.
Came Taiwanese workers.

Jesus said: Behold, I stand at the door, and knock.
If any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Came LSM Andrew Yu.
Came LSM Ron Kangas.
Came US LSM bb.
Came Wu.
Came Lin.
Came China Taiwan Book Room bb.

Jesus said: Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

US bb appoint Korean workers, elders.
Taiwan bb appoint Korean workers, elders.

Jesus will grant to him that overcometh to sit with him in his throne, even as he also overcame, and set down with his Father in his throne.

Hear not LSM, Hear not TBR.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

-
* bb - blended brothers
* LSM - Living Stream Ministry
* TBR - Taiwan Book Room