afazio - Spiritual Authority

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Definitely deteriorated over time. Initially many elders were true shepherds who put their church first, only to be targeted and coerced by headquarters as not sufficiently "one with the ministry." All sorts of tactics were used to force compliance or be expelled.

Consider the tools they had to force compliance:

1. They could cut off the ministry from LSM. That would immediately distinguish this locality as being "off".

2. They could cut off the fellowship with other churches.

3. They could foment a challenge.

4. They could use their legal team to try and seize control of the meeting hall.

5. They could establish another "church" in that city.

Notice how 2-5 are divisive and thoroughly condemned by the NT yet were practiced by LSM.

[aron]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Notice how 2-5 are divisive and thoroughly condemned by the NT yet were practiced by LSM.

And, it should be noted, such practices reveal a lack of spiritual authority. Anyone who resorts to forcing, coercing, or manipulating in order to gain compliance, does not know the true power and authority of the kingdom.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Consider the tools they had to force compliance:...

For years both Lee and the blendeds sowed suspicions with their not-so-subtle innuendos from the podium. This would set off a firestorm of hush-hush whisperings after the meetings: Who is he talking about? Who is not in the flow? Who is doing their own thing? Who is not one with the ministry?

None of this was accidental. It all served the purpose of manipulation, using peer pressure and public shaming to bring leaders under subjection to LSM and its lackeys. As a precursor to their divisive actions, LSM was forcing all leaders to "choose sides" which is the very definition of division. Sleeper cells, a global network of LSM spies was recruited in order to feed back to headquarters any "deviant" speaking in the LC's, such as not using the latest training messages, or one brother speaking too long in the meeting.

Witness Lee in as much admitted this when he blurted out publicly, "I know everything, I know everything you do, people write me long letters, they tell me everything." Same tactics were used in totalitarian regimes -- half the population was spying on the other half -- all for supposed perks with the bosses in Anaheim.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Drake

...in documenting the God-breathed Word of God, God used imperfect human instruments as inspired channels to record His thought, then used imperfect scribes over the centuries from different schools to copy manuscripts, then He raised up imperfect ministers to recover the divine truths over the last few centuries, and today he still uses imperfect expositors to expound His written Word and consequently enable the Holy Spirit to speak to us.

Wow Drake, I agree 100% with this...especially the last part that I have placed in bold. The only problem, as far as the Local Church of Witness Lee is concerned, is that the official, published policy of the movement is that God is no longer "using imperfect expositors to expound his written Word" (and, one must assume, by extension the Holy Spirit is not able to speak) - All the exposition and expounding came to a screeching halt with the death of Witness Lee. That's right folks, all the exposition and expounding ended on June 9th, 1997. If you don't believe me, please review the official proclamation by the official leaders - "Publication Work in the Lord's Recovery" AKA "The One Publication".

As a matter of fact, no person or persons in the Local Church has the right, privilege or authority to add or take away from the sacred words of brother LǐChángshòu - they are to be forever memorialized and canonized within the strict bounds given and heavily guarded by a California corporation - The Living Stream Ministry. So if the Holy Spirit is going to speak (and he better be reading from a Life Study when he does!) he will have to do so among the officially sanctioned pages coming forth from 2431 W. La Palma Ave. Anaheim California.

Doesn't work like that. Even those who claim to own the pure Word are using that to mask the fact that they are just holding onto their own opinion and interpretation of God's Word.

Wow, and the hits just keep coming! Good job my fine feathered friend! You just described the ministry of Witness Lee. "The pure Word"? hmmm...where have we all heard that one? Let me see...hmmm...Oh, I know....From Witness Lee. In fact, he used the phrase quite often to refer to his personal interpretations and opinions. Even when he was reproved by numerous Christian teachers, scholars and apologists...he just blew them off as evil opposers...blind, dead mooing cows. Oh, and let's not even get into what Lee did do those who questioned his interpretations and opinions from within the Local Church....they WISH they were treated as good as those blind, dead mooing cows!
-

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Drake

and today he still uses imperfect expositors to expound His written Word and consequently enable the Holy Spirit to speak to us.

Lee's local church isn't the first to set themselves up as the intermediary between us and the Holy Spirit.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

As a matter of fact, no person or persons in the Local Church has the right, privilege or authority to add or take away from the sacred words of brother LǐChángshòu - they are to be forever memorialized and canonized within the strict bounds given and heavily guarded by a California corporation - The Living Stream Ministry. So if the Holy Spirit is going to speak (and he better be reading from a Life Study when he does!) he will have to do so among the officially sanctioned pages coming forth from 2431 W. La Palma Ave. Anaheim California.
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Brother UntoHim,

I hesitate to respond to you because in what appears to be an unguarded moment you are near to blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Perhaps you could avoid inflammatory rhetoric that includes what the Holy Spirit should or should not do.... if not for your own sake then for those who look up to you. Ok?

Now, the real matter of fact is that the “One Publication “ does not say what you say it does. You reference the document but fail to represent the content accurately. That is a minor infraction in the grand scheme of things and forgivable ....

Drake

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Drake

Now, the real matter of fact is that the “One Publication “ does not say what you say it does. You reference the document but fail to represent the content accurately. That is a minor infraction in the grand scheme of things and forgivable ....

Drake

From the One Pub (underlining added):

"It bothers me that some brothers among us still put out publications. According to my truthful observation there is no new light or life supply there.......By putting out your own publication, you waste your time and money. You waste the money given by the saints, and you waste their time in reading what you publish. Where is the food, the life supply, and the real enlightenment in the other publications among us?"

"Some brothers among us continually put out some publications. I was honest to tell them that there was no light and nothing new in what they put out."

When you combine these claims with DCP's www.afaithfulword.org's dissertation on the vision/ministry/minister of the age (the home page of which, btw, plainly references the One Pub and the rest of the site exists to defend the One Pub):

"Brother Lee...left us with both a complete blueprint for the building up of the Body of Christ and clear guidelines for how the building of the Body can be accomplished."

"There is no successor to this wise master builder [Witness Lee], but there is an open group of being-blended brothers who are absolutely consecrated to the Lord to continue the work begun by this wise master builder. (Ron Kangas, "The Builders of the Divine Building, The Ministry Magazine, vol. 10, no. 1, p. 150). .......[This] simply states a commitment to keeping the vision of the age as delivered to us through our Brother Witness Lee before the saints as the content of the speaking of the blending co-workers."

"In fact, this speaking matches both the realization and earnest desire of Brother Nee and Brother Lee. In these days the Lord desires that all of the saints in His recovery would rise up to enter into the revelation and vision released through Brother Nee and Brother Lee, particularly the high peak truths of the last phase of Brother Lee's ministry...At the end of his ministry Brother Nee expressed his feeling that the Lord desired to turn the age from the age of spiritual giants to the age of the whole Body serving."

There are not many other conclusions to draw except:
1. Read and speak only Lee because apparently "All those who do not build, speak, or serve according to the blueprint released by the Lord through that man [Lee] are void of light and revelation" (from a faithfulword.org, WOW what a claim!!), and

2. Lee was the last great master builder to be succeeded by no one, and we just keep looking to whatever he produced for the vision to follow.......even though apparently through all the ages of human history God's principle (the unchanging One, by the way) of one minister per age unexpectedly changed!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

From the One Pub (underlining added):

"It bothers me that some brothers among us still put out publications. According to my truthful observation there is no new light or life supply there.......By putting out your own publication, you waste your time and money. You waste the money given by the saints, and you waste their time in reading what you publish. Where is the food, the life supply, and the real enlightenment in the other publications among us?"

"Some brothers among us continually put out some publications. I was honest to tell them that there was no light and nothing new in what they put out."

These statements, made some 30 years ago, are utter nonsense. No new light or life supply? Wasting your time amd money? Saints waste their time reading? No food? Nothing new?

I call BS on all of Lee's false witness here. Since when can he make such judgments on the works of other servants of God. Matter of fact, The Harvest and The Christian papers were full of the anointing. Thousands of saints could testify of this. The anointing Spirit of God blessed those two papers, and others too which were widely circulated at the time.

Since when does the novelty of "something new" become the standard by which Lee or LSM can shut down other ministries? Isn't the demand for "something new" a false standard? Why do other ministries need something new? Paul preached boring old "Christ crucified," and that was pleasing to God, and anointed by His Spirit. Isn't the leading of the Spirit more than adequate to publish? Does not God endorse His leading with the anointing and blessing from above?

It seems that Lee's addiction for "something new" has caused endless problems. Is not that what led to his errant teachings about "becoming God?" Do not itchy ears long for what is "new" rather than what God has anointed? Has not his rash decision to end the ministries of other brothers, with the demands of One Publication, usurped the operation of the Head of the body?

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Ohio

These statements, made some 30 years ago, are utter nonsense. No new light or life supply? Wasting your time amd money? Saints waste their time reading? No food? Nothing new?

I call BS on all of Lee's false witness here. Since when can he make such judgments on the works of other servants of God. Matter of fact, The Harvest and The Christian papers were full of the anointing. Thousands of saints could testify of this. The anointing Spirit of God blessed those two papers, and others too which were widely circulated at the time.

Since when does the novelty of "something new" become the standard by which Lee or LSM can shut down other ministries? Isn't the demand for "something new" a false standard? Why do other ministries need something new? Paul preached boring old "Christ crucified," and that was pleasing to God, and anointed by His Spirit. Isn't the leading of the Spirit more than adequate to publish? Does not God endorse His leading with the anointing and blessing from above?

It seems that Lee's addiction for "something new" has caused endless problems. Is not that what led to his errant teachings about "becoming God?" Do not itchy ears long for what is "new" rather than what God has anointed? Has not his rash decision to end the ministries of other brothers, with the demands of One Publication, usurped the operation of the Head of the body?

Great post. Absolutely. Again....."distinctions of ministries, yet the same Lord"!!!!

But don't worry about usurping the Head! DCP is here to tell us what the Lord desires!!!

"In these days the Lord desires that all of the saints in His recovery would rise up to enter into the revelation and vision released through Brother Nee and Brother Lee, particularly the high peak truths of the last phase of Brother Lee's ministry, the practice of the God-ordained way, and the organic shepherding for the building up of the Body of Christ. We should not waste our energy and the saints' time promoting this or that one as another "minister of the age." At the end of his ministry Brother Nee expressed his feeling that the Lord desired to turn the age from the age of spiritual giants to the age of the whole Body serving."

Pretty scary when the saints look to these men to be told what the Lord desires. It's one thing to get help from fellow humans to find out what the Lord desires, through His word. But what is being claimed here is not in His word, and is self-serving to the uttermost.

Talk about usurping the Head! Many men on a publishing company's payroll telling hundreds of thousands of people the Lord wants them to keep reading what that very publishing company puts out? Got it

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Trapped

There are not many other conclusions to draw except:
1. Read and speak only Lee because apparently "All those who do not build, speak, or serve according to the blueprint released by the Lord through that man [Lee] are void of light and revelation" (from a faithfulword.org, WOW what a claim!!), and

2. Lee was the last great master builder to be succeeded by no one, and we just keep looking to whatever he produced for the vision to follow.......even though apparently through all the ages of human history God's principle (the unchanging One, by the way) of one minister per age unexpectedly changed!

Brother Trapped you have brought to light the final end of the ministers of the age. Like Lutherans hold to Luther, the Recovery holds to their dead leader ... stuck at an antiquated MOTA.

[Trapped]

The One Pub and the statements made in defense of it on afaithfulword.org turn my stomach and it grieves me that there are genuine believers in the Lord who have been deceived into believing the claims. Or that they see through the claims and are grieved themselves, but are trapped in such a peculiar fear-based environment where their entire lives might be derailed if they follow their conviction to speak up. I have spoken to a number of elders who see through much of this, but then defeatedly admit that they have to keep their mouths shut.

My own experience blows LSM's and Lee's claims out of the water. I recently heard a message (by someone ostensibly "devoid of light") on "blessed are the meek" that absolutely blew me away. There is SO MUCH in just the concept of "meekness" that I have never, ever heard spoken in any LSM-related gathering. (Also, what a concept, not ONCE in any non-LC message I've ever heard has the speaking brother criticized or put down believers in other churches or tried to pass off the speaking in their own church to be "unique" or "high" in comparison to other places).

In contrast, Lee's footnote on "meek" only says this: "To be meek means not to resist the world's opposition but to suffer it willingly", which is not what being meek means (or at least is a very small sliver of it)!! I think we can also safely say that in light of the LC's response to opposition that they have not been "meek" (according to their own definition) by any means.

To make sure I was doing due diligence, I also looked into the Life-Study and Crystallization-Study on that portion in Matthew and the shallowness and lack of light in comparison to the non-LC message I heard was astonishing.

Lee did not have and does not have the monopoly on light.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Trapped

2. Lee was the last great master builder to be succeeded by no one, and we just keep looking to whatever he produced for the vision to follow.......even though apparently through all the ages of human history God's principle (the unchanging One, by the way) of one minister per age unexpectedly changed!

Lee contradicted the principle that there is a minister of every age with his blended brothers teaching. He was the last great master builder? I don't recall reading that in my Bible. What hubris!

[aron]

Originally Posted by zeek

Lee contradicted the principle that there is a minister of every age with his blended brothers teaching. He was the last great master builder? I don't recall reading that in my Bible. What hubris!

So according to his feeling, Witness Lee said the Lord desired to turn the age from one brother ministering from the Bible, to no more spiritual giant and all the Body merely rehearsing and repeating that one man's ministry. Even the Lord Jesus as a man cited scripture: "it is written" and "scripture must be fulfilled" . . . but Witness Lee merely had a feeling and thus the age of church history must change? Even 'hubris' doesn't seem strong enough for this.

And Witness Lee's feeling wasn't affected by bias and self-interest? The man who gave us Timothy Lee and Daystar, and Philip Lee aka "The Office"? It's so obviously self-serving; even the most resolutely non-thinking and non-analytical among the flock must have had their consciences pricked by this kind of talk from ministry leaders.